GTPlanet's Shift 2 Review at After Media Event.

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On the main page, not sure if everyones seen it so ill copy paste it.



As I announced a few weeks ago, Electronic Arts invited GTPlanet to a “community day” event for their latest driving game, Shift 2: Unleashed. I took them up on the offer, and I’m eager to share my impressions of the game. There’s a lot of eyes on Shift 2 after the series’ first title, billed as a realistic simulator, was highly criticized by “sim racers” for its too-friendly physics. According to EA’s marketing, these issues have been addressed, going so far as to call it “the most realistic racer ever”.

Where I’m Coming From

First, some perspective. I consider the most important thing about any driving game to be its physics model and how it communicates what the car is doing via force-feedback in the steering wheel. I spent my time with Shift 2 on a PC with a Logitech Driving Force GT, and my following impressions have all been derived from that experience. I played the game exclusively in “Elite” physics mode, all driving aids off (with the exception of ABS). Gameplay will be significantly different with a controller, so please take that into consideration before reading further.

What Shift 2 Is Really All About

Since the game was first announced, EA has claimed it wants Shift 2 to provide an “authentic driving experience”. This is best summed up in a quote by EA’s Colin Blackwood during an interview with MCV:

“With Shift 2 Unleashed, we aim to redefine sim racing so that fans get as close to the feeling of real racing as possible. [...] The game will still embody the core values of Need for Speed but we want to establish Shift as our clearly defined simulation racer.”

This sort of language is a source of confusion among sim-racing fans, because we all have such a wide range of expectations for what a “racing simulator” is. Many, for example, consider games such as Forza or Gran Turismo to be on the far end of the “simulation” scale. Others, who have played PC simulators such as rFactor, iRacing, and netKar PRO, expect a “simulator” to provide tire pressure settings, laser-scanned tracks, and extremely challenging physics that demand your full attention.

Shift 2’s lead developer Andy Tudor touched on this while talking with us at this media event. On the scale of “racing games”, he placed Shift 2 somewhere between the more arcade Need for Speed titles and games such as Forza and GT. After spending a significant amount of time with the game, I think that’s a spot-on description. This game doesn’t match their driving physics, but it’s not really supposed to. Shift 2’s “realism” instead focuses on the gritty, violent, rough experience that is driving a race car around a race track, and it does an amazing job of it.

Who This Game is For

I can already see the comments from smug “hard-core sim racers” on blogs and forums around the web: “So this game is just the same **** as before? **** that **** ******* *******”. If you’re expecting the game to “feel” like GT5 or your favorite PC sim of choice then, yes, you will be disappointed. If you’re looking for a fun, immersive racing game you can pick up and start playing, you’re in for a treat.

Dismissing this game for its physics is akin to throwing the baby out with the bath water -- it introduces some very cool new features to the genre that other developers would be wise to take note of.

So Much to Love



You’ve got to hand it to Slightly Mad Studios’ for their selection of cars in Shift 2. Have a look over the complete list and you’ll find Caterham, Porsche, Alpina, Radical, classic M3’s, the new Pagani Huayra, and nearly every other contemporary sports car you’d expect (with the exception of Ferrari). All of them feature fully-modeled interiors and all can be upgraded to race-spec “Works” editions. The damage is extremely impressive, featuring cracked glass, crumpled, detachable body panels, and wheels torn off in violent shunts. The graphics -- on the PC version at least -- are among the best I’ve ever seen.

The track list is also well rounded, featuring classics such as the Nurburgring (the GP course and the Nordschleife), Laguna Seca, Suzuka, and Monza, and other popular real-world circuits such as Mount Panorama (Bathurst), Road America, Silverstone, Brands Hatch, Spa Francorchamps, Circuit de Catalunya, and many more.

The menus are fast and easy to navigate, and there’s a wide range of tuning options. Players coming from GT5 will particularly appreciate the ability to save multiple setups for each car, for each track. The game’s new “Autolog” functionality is also a slick implementation of the game’s social features, which allow you to directly compare your own progress and hot laps against friends. Better yet, EA is about to bring Autolog to your mobile phone via an iOS application that will alert you if a friend bests your lap time on a given track.

AI in Shift 2 is extremely impressive -- they’re aggressive, but clean. The other driver’s performance is “dynamic”, and will adapt to your performance. If you’re struggling, your competition will also make more mistakes to keep the competition close, but they’ll pick up the pace as your skill improves.

The Driving Physics

There’s been a lot of discussion of the new “Elite” physics mode introduced in Shift 2. Unfortunately, I didn’t find it particularly challenging with a steering wheel. With a Logitech Driving Force GT, cars often felt “floaty”, as if it was difficult to keep the car pointed straight. I found this to be less of an issue with older, heavier cars, which provided a more rewarding driving experience.

Regardless, it was difficult to “feel” where the tires were at in terms of lateral grip. There was little communication through the wheel’s force feedback in corners, and the surprisingly unpleasant tire squeal sound was either “on” or “off” -- as if it was activated only after the tires had exceeded their limit. These are two of the most important indicators of how hard you’re pushing a car in a video game, and they’re sorely missed in Shift 2.

I also found there to be a general lack of oversteer in the physics model, most noticeable in powerful, rear-wheel drive cars. I took a Shelby Cobra 427 to Road America with stock tires, for example, and found it difficult to create any power-induced oversteer. I experienced this same unnatural level of grip while testing the Corvette C6R and many other cars.

It’s Fun



Despite a physics engine which will leave sim-racers wanting more (ok, a lot more), this is a fun, exciting, and intense driving game. Without doubt, the Shift series is definitely headed in the right direction. I had an absolute blast racing with other members of the press during the many LAN races held in the EA offices, and that’s what really matters.

Head on over to our Shift forum for more discussion!


Thoughts ? Sounds like it could be fun, Of course its not gonna be a hardcore sim, i guarantee no one expected it to be, but i bet it'll trump GT5 in the discussions of 'fun' and whatnot, GT5 seems to be becoming a chore to me IMO.
 
On the main page, not sure if everyones seen it so ill copy paste it.






Thoughts ? Sounds like it could be fun, Of course its not gonna be a hardcore sim, i guarantee no one expected it to be, but i bet it'll trump GT5 in the discussions of 'fun' and whatnot, GT5 seems to be becoming a chore to me IMO.

Sound just like the first one...:nervous: but without the tyre squeal sound :ouch:

I think Im going to wait after all at least a few weeks before buying this one... Im having a lot of fun with F1 CE (again) and dont feel the need to rush into a game that might probably need a patch and may not be exactly what I was hoping for...
Cmon they said that they had improoved the physics and from the description it sounds just like the physics on the first one... and the FFB was not bad in Shift 1 (in some areas I even consider it better than GT5 FFB) except driving on a straight line (wobble feeling) but from what he says it seems to be worse now and that is the PC version wich is not a good sign:indiff:
 
Relying on our American cousins to spill the beans on what's bad or needs to be improved.

I don't want to save myself some money but if I have to I will.

Having fun on SBKX actually. Bloody hard.
 
From the Details thread, probably relevant here before people jump to conclusions...

http://www.avforums.com/forums/pc-ga...eashed-15.html

It's conversation between two sim racers, one of who happens to be on the QA team for Shift 2 and is a very interesting read. It seems a lot of what we're seeing (and possibly even the version Jordan played) is an older build. The comments state that the older build didn't have the FFB sorted and it's light and day difference between the old build and the final one.

They also mention that the physics had to be 'dumbed down' slightly to allow controllable play on a gamepad, but are still pretty full on. I personally think that Shift 2's physics will be well ahead of GT5's, and I think the GT5 physics had many problems anyway (suspension modelling, tyre width/size not modelled etc), it's just a good estimation at what driving the cars shoudl 'look' like.
 
Sound just like the first one...:nervous: but without the tyre squeal sound :ouch:

I think Im going to wait after all at least a few weeks before buying this one... Im having a lot of fun with F1 CE (again) and dont feel the need to rush into a game that might probably need a patch and may not be exactly what I was hoping for...
Cmon they said that they had improoved the physics and from the description it sounds just like the physics on the first one... and the FFB was not bad in Shift 1 (in some areas I even consider it better than GT5 FFB) except driving on a straight line (wobble feeling) but from what he says it seems to be worse now and that is the PC version wich is not a good sign:indiff:

Ive seen a few gameplay videos, and it doesnt seem too bad. Personally, i pre ordered it, and i guarantee i wont return it because i just love racing, Whether its Arcade-ish games like Hot pursuit, Carbon, undercover, Most Wanted, or Sims like GT5, GT5P, GT4, GT3, Shift, Shift 2, Pro street. I find them all enjoyable, regardless of the physics, its just another racing game to get good at. Plus the 40 extra races should be nice, thats like.... 50% of GT5s A Spec events right there lol. But anyways, It seemed fine to me, based off of videos ive seen etc. I never noticed the wobbling in Shift 1, was it only if you use a wheel ? cause i use DS3.
 
It's conversation between two sim racers, one of who happens to be on the QA team for Shift 2 and is a very interesting read. It seems a lot of what we're seeing (and possibly even the version Jordan played) is an older build. The comments state that the older build didn't have the FFB sorted and it's light and day difference between the old build and the final one.

The event was last week and the game went gold a month ago so I dont really beleave that it was an older built... now if you have some proof about what your saying now is the time to show it.

Ive seen a few gameplay videos, and it doesnt seem too bad. Personally, i pre ordered it, and i guarantee i wont return it because i just love racing, Whether its Arcade-ish games like Hot pursuit, Carbon, undercover, Most Wanted, or Sims like GT5, GT5P, GT4, GT3, Shift, Shift 2, Pro street. I find them all enjoyable, regardless of the physics, its just another racing game to get good at. Plus the 40 extra races should be nice, thats like.... 50% of GT5s A Spec events right there lol. But anyways, It seemed fine to me, based off of videos ive seen etc. I never noticed the wobbling in Shift 1, was it only if you use a wheel ? cause i use DS3.

Yes exactly, the game must be pretty good with a controler...
 
I'm with you Trib, I don't believe they are going to invite people to play a game two weeks before launch and give them an old build.

Smell a rat, lol.
 
I've already pre-ordered it, Whilst it's not GT5. I found the previous version to be frustrating at times during single player mode, but enjoyed the online experience with friends.

Shift actually got a few of my non sim racing buddies into sim racing, and now there on gt5 👍

Some of the others, have bought wheels, and are embarking on PC racing .. resistance is futile.. The review was just as I thought it would be..

Although I hope over time there's a way to turn that tunnel vision cockpit blur off!! II don't think it adds anything to the game.
 
I'm with you Trib, I don't believe they are going to invite people to play a game two weeks before launch and give them an old build.

Smell a rat, lol.

You've been smelling rats for weeks now. Just another day or few and you'll be able to see if it really is a rat or whether it's a very dirty but very adorable puppy.
 
I do want a puppy.

Yeah man, can you imagine driving a puppy around Bathurst? Pull the right ear to go faster, left ear to go slower, tail to handbrake. It'd be all floaty though, so they probably wouldn't have modelled the knee joints properly. And talk about mad oversteer in the corners... :crazy:👍
 
I'm glad this game is coming out tomorrow here in the states.GT5 has gotten a bit stale over the past month and to be honest it wasn't exactly fresh to begin with.

After reading the review it seems the game will catch the more exciting part of racing, which is fine by me.We need a racing game that will be making us tense, nervous,angry, and happy to win when we do get the victory.

I for one will be glad that we will once again have an exciting racing experience and by the sounds of it the game will be much more polished this time around.

It's like the song in the video says "Help is on the Way" 👍
 
I'm glad this game is coming out tomorrow here in the states.GT5 has gotten a bit stale over the past month and to be honest it wasn't exactly fresh to begin with.

After reading the review it seems the game will catch the more exciting part of racing, which is fine by me.We need a racing game that will be making us tense, nervous,angry, and happy to win when we do get the victory.

I for one will be glad that we will once again have an exciting racing experience and by the sounds of it the game will be much more polished this time around.

It's like the song in the video says "Help is on the Way" 👍

+1, the GT5 AI is so dull and boring, theyre just there on a nice calm sunday drive...

Shift2 seems to be how a racing game really should be, fast, tense, exciting, and competitive. Not dull, slow, a chore and a grind.
 
Great review, anyone expecting this game to be like a hardcore sim (Iracing, GTR etc etc) were just kidding themselves on...especially when they have said it's somewhere between typical NFS and F3/GT5.
 
I think this review was great.., and it has in no way made me rethink my pre-order. After reading this I find that I am even more excited to pick this up tomorrow morning at GameStop!

Out of all the racing titles I have on BOTH the PS3 and XBox (and I have A LOT of them., including all the major titles "considered" to be more SIM based).., the one that gets the most use on (both) consoles is Shift-1.

Shift-2 clearly picks up on the areas the original Shift was lacking. EA learned their lesson after the release of Shift-1. They knew that wasn't a SIM on par with others like Forza and GT. Hell.., the developers knew this all along. However.., the suits over at EA are the ones responsible for how the title was marketed to the consumers.

Shift-1 was marketed as a "True racing SIM".., and all the marketing hype was clearly inaccurate once the title was released. This time EA got it right.., and are marketing Shift-2 not as a SIM.., but focusing on the "Racing Experience". They have made some VERY good decisions with this new title.

Many of the preliminary reviewers are all saying that the physics aren't on par with GT5 and Forza.., BUT one common opinion the majority are walking away with is that the RACING experience is AMAZING!

I think Shift-2 is going to be a big hit for EA/SMS. People cannot complain that they were duped this time by false and inaccurate advertising. This time around.., they're not all pushing this title as the "ultimate SIM" (like they did with Shift-1) in the pre-release vids. The focus is clearly on the RACING EXPERIENCE.

What I don't understand is why so many people bitch and moan about it not being a full blown SIM like GT-5 and Forza. Hell.., even GT5 and Forza aren't even full blown SIMS when you really look at it. They're both ArcaSIMS.., that to some extent BLUR the line between PC and Console racing.

Take GRID for example. Everyone knows that title isn't a SIM.., bit holy sh-t.., it's no secret that GRID is still considered to be one of the best arcade racers of all time.., and it's still loved by many.

Shift-1 IMO was on the level of GRID. It wasn't a SIM.., but IMO Shift-1 is (like GRID) one of the best arcade racers to date. The original Shift's physics were MILES ahead of GRID.., and with Shift you could at least TUNE and UPGRADE your cars (this option WAS NOT available with GRID).

I think Shift-2 could possibly go down as one of the best ArcaSIMS ever created. If consumers approach the title with "reasonable" expectations.., I think it should do well. Just remember folks.., Shift-2 isn't a SIM. Treat it just as it was designed to be.., and I think many post release reviews will be favorable.
 
^ Do you use a wheel?

I think wheel users are most likely to worry.

I don't mind the odd screen tear ruining the immersion or even the odd frame rate stutter. I can live with that too.

I don't want to be reminded about bad input on my wheel every time I turn a corner. ( which is quite a lot in a car game)
 
^ Do you use a wheel?

I think wheel users are most likely to worry.

I don't mind the odd screen tear ruining the immersion or even the odd frame rate stutter. I can live with that too.

I don't want to be reminded about bad input on my wheel every time I turn a corner. ( which is quite a lot in a car game)

I use a wheel on my XBox version..., but I also use the gamepad on both consoles for Shift-1.

What I think SO many people missed out on with Shift-1 was tweaking the controller settings for gamepads. A large majority of people complain that Shift-1's "turning from left to right" is faulted by a delay in the input. That's not correct at all. People failed to realize that this issue was as a result of the default "deadzone" setting for the steering. Minor tweaks to the steering deadzone was a MAJOR improvement for me.

Unlike a lot of people.., I took the time to make Shift-1 work for ME. I figured out (for me) what upgrades were worth it and what were not. I figured out why there was so much power-sliding. After nailing the power-sliding issue (to this day) I can fly around the corners without kicking my back end out nearly as much as I did in the past. I also realized that the BASIC tuning menu by itself was capable of making major improvements in how the vehicle handles.

If there are a few FPS hits and screen slicing.., well I ain't gonna let that bother me. Hell.., GT-5 (after all those years of development) suffers from screen slicing. One title that I have on the XBox (IMO the ONLY true racing console SIM) is Race Pro.., and screen slicing is throughout that game. However.., it's not an issue because the RACING experience in Race Pro is as close to a PC SIM as you're going to get on any console IMO.., and the vehicle tuning in Race Pro (to date) still rivals ALL the console titles.
 
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Unlike a lot of people.., I took the time to make Shift-1 work for ME. I figured out (for me) what upgrades were worth it and what were not. I figured out why there was so much power-sliding. After nailing the power-sliding issue (to this day) I can fly around the corners without kicking my back end out nearly as much as I did in the past. I also realized that the BASIC tuning menu by itself was capable of making major improvements in how the vehicle handles.

All this stuff is why Shift 1 was so faulty. There was some stuff that was good out of the box. There was a lot of stuff that worked, as long as you tweaked some settings or avoided certain tuning parts or adjusted your car appropriately. There was some stuff that was just broken.

It's the second two categories of stuff that most people just don't want to deal with. If you're hooked on a game, you'll go to the trouble of fixing what's wrong with it so that you can play more. But if you're new to the game, or if you just haven't got to the bit that really drags you in yet then it's just more things to drive you away.

Shift 1 was a decent game, but it required a ****-load of effort on the part of the user to get it to a point that it was fun and easy to play. I think it was worth it, personally. But it shouldn't have been a question of worth, it should have been easy to play out of the box.
 
I would like to thank Jordan for the fair and inspired review, something different than gamesite's reviews where everything is perfect the most of the times..
 
If they AI is improved, I'll be satisfied. That was my biggest gripe with Shift 1. The other cars were all over the place and took a lot of the fun out of the career races. (One thing I like about GT5's AI is that they're at least predictable enough, however dumb, to execute clean passes.)

I loved hotlapping by myself in quickrace, though. The toned-down physics is fine by me, because the overall "feel" when driving was very well done.

It sounds like I'd enjoy Shift 2, so I'll pick it up.
 
All this stuff is why Shift 1 was so faulty. There was some stuff that was good out of the box. There was a lot of stuff that worked, as long as you tweaked some settings or avoided certain tuning parts or adjusted your car appropriately. There was some stuff that was just broken.

It's the second two categories of stuff that most people just don't want to deal with. If you're hooked on a game, you'll go to the trouble of fixing what's wrong with it so that you can play more. But if you're new to the game, or if you just haven't got to the bit that really drags you in yet then it's just more things to drive you away.

Shift 1 was a decent game, but it required a ****-load of effort on the part of the user to get it to a point that it was fun and easy to play. I think it was worth it, personally. But it shouldn't have been a question of worth, it should have been easy to play out of the box.

The thing is.., Shift-1 for me didn't really take a huge amount of time to make it my own. It just took some tinkering with various settings and testing out various parts upgrades ect. The steering issue problem people had with "delayed input" I was able to rectify in a matter of minutes.

What people have to understand is that default settings in racing titles WILL NOT work for everyone. They're generalized settings provided by the developers. I don't understand why so many people want SIM quality racing titles on the consoles.., but aren't willing to tweak default settings.

I guess I'm different. I have no problem tweaking settings. I often find that it really doesn't take much effort as well to get vehicles to snap into place for me.
 
If they AI is improved, I'll be satisfied. That was my biggest gripe with Shift 1. The other cars were all over the place and took a lot of the fun out of the career races. (One thing I like about GT5's AI is that they're at least predictable enough, however dumb, to execute clean passes.)

I loved hotlapping by myself in quickrace, though. The toned-down physics is fine by me, because the overall "feel" when driving was very well done.

It sounds like I'd enjoy Shift 2, so I'll pick it up.

That's EXACTLY how I feel. For me the BIGGEST problem I have with Shift-1 is the AI. It's like the developers didn't bother to look at the rule book for circuit racing when coding the AI in Shift-1. If the rules were really applied.., less than 1/4 of the AI vehicles would actually cross the finish line.., as most would be disqualified within the first few laps.

The AI in Shift-2 is still said to be aggressive.., but not OVERLY stupid like Shift-1. In Shift-1 sometimes the AI is out to freakin kill you before the end of the first lap.

EA could have just re-patched the AI in Shift-1 and I'd be happy.

One thing about Shift-1 is that IMO no other console title even comes close to matching the "racing experience" you get in Shift-1. The cockpit experience is the best on any console as far as I'm concerned. It's not just the cockpit cam either. With Shift-1 it's a combination of the cockpit experience and the SOUND! OMG.., the sound in Shift-1 IMO is unmatched. The vehicles might not be spot on in terms of accuracy with their engine sounds.., but DAMN the SOUND is unmatched. Play Shift-1 for an hour.., and then go play Forza-3 or GT-5. There's just no comparison.

Shift-2 is going to be the same way IMO. It will have the ULTIMATE cockpit experience and will even rival the original. Add the sound and BAM.., you got one hell of a racing experience.
 
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The thing is.., Shift-1 for me didn't really take a huge amount of time to make it my own. It just took some tinkering with various settings and testing out various parts upgrades ect. The steering issue problem people had with "delayed input" I was able to rectify in a matter of minutes.

What people have to understand is that default settings in racing titles WILL NOT work for everyone. They're generalized settings provided by the developers. I don't understand why so many people want SIM quality racing titles on the consoles.., but aren't willing to tweak default settings.

I guess I'm different. I have no problem tweaking settings. I often find that it really doesn't take much effort as well to get vehicles to snap into place for me.

I kind of agree and kind of don't. I agree that racing titles, as they get more involved, tend to require some amount of tuning to really fit each players style. And that's fine, that's just part of the deal. But the default settings should be acceptable. They should be playable.

For example, back when the bouncing was still a major problem you could tune to take most of it away and get a fairly drivable car as long as you avoided certain situations. That's fine. But if you didn't do the tuning the cars were absolutely undriveable on certain tracks.

That's what I mean. There's stuff that's personalisation, and then there's stuff that's just broken and you're having to try and fix it in a way that makes the game playable. There was a lot of "just broken" in Shift 1. Admittedly, patches went a long way to fixing that but by then most of the damage was already done.
 
Awesome posts

I'm exactly in the same mind-set. I still really enjoy Shift1. Yeah, granted I had to spend quite a bit of time tweaking the settings and mess with tunings, but like you said, even the fiddling with Quick Tuning had a vast effect on the handling. I was willing to put in the time. I agree that a lot of the issues you could quickly resolve just by adjusting the steering settings and deadzones.

I think Shift 2 will be very much the same (save for the bugs hopefully), in fact I know it after playing for two days at that event with Jordan. As I've said before, I spent the whole second day messing with settings and tunings to improve the feel. And I was pretty successful too. I think taking the time to adjust the settings and do a little tuning will make this feel so much better. I understand the "Everything should work perfectly right out of the box" mentalitly (i.e. Alan from VVV never really changing wheel settings), but if you adjust these things it can make the game so much more enjoyable.


And squeak, I LOVE Race Pro. It's my personal favorite racing game on consoles. It definitly won't win any awards for looks, but IMO, you just can't beat that Simbin "feel" of the cars and physics.
 
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Talk about "Dejá vu"

Anyway, If I may quote Jordan in the details thread

We definitely weren't playing with the final build, as our games had all the debug menus exposed (let's just say that was very interesting to see... ).
 
I'm exactly in the same mind-set. I still really enjoy Shift1. Yeah, granted I had to spend quite a bit of time tweaking the settings and mess with tunings, but like you said, even the fiddling with Quick Tuning had a vast effect on the handling. I was willing to put in the time. I agree that a lot of the issues you could quickly resolve just by adjusting the steering settings and deadzones.

I think Shift 2 will be very much the same (save for the bugs hopefully), in fact I know it after playing for two days at that event with Jordan. As I've said before, I spent the whole second day messing with settings and tunings to improve the feel. And I was pretty successful too. I think taking the time to adjust the settings and do a little tuning will make this feel so much better. I understand the "Everything should work perfectly right out of the box" mentalitly (i.e. Alan from VVV never really changing wheel settings), but if you adjust these things it can make the game so much more enjoyable.


And squeak, I LOVE Race Pro. It's my personal favorite racing game on consoles. It definitly won't win any awards for looks, but IMO, you just can't beat that Simbin "feel" of the cars and physics.

I'm not the least bit worried about Shift-2. There will certainly be some bugs.., and honestly what title isn't choc full of them today... Even if the physics aren't on the level of the better known titles.., that isn't an issue for me..., because I keep my expectations within reason. I know this is going to be a cross between an arcade and console SIM. I'll do the same thing with Shift-2.., and that's editing controller settings.., and digging into the vehicle upgrades to see which parts perform best.

Race Pro is just an AMAZING title IMO. To date I still claim that Race Pro is the ONLY TRUE SIM on the consoles. What I've noticed over the years (and it's not meant to disrespect anyone).., but a vast majority of console racers really don't get it when it comes to producing a real SIM on a console system.

FACT: You CANNOT have the highest quality graphics, physics, vehicle tuning, vehicle customization with parts upgrades, and livery editor, a huge number of high quality laser scanned "real world tracks", with killer online features, all packed into a racing title on a console and expect it to perform at the level of a high end PC SIM. IT'S JUST NOT POSSIBLE.

It's not because the developers can't make them.., it's because the consoles DO NOT have the hardware to handle these titles. Developers really IMO have a very hard job creating racing titles on consoles because with every release they have to create a title that's better than the last, and make it perform at a higher level using the SAME CONSOLE(S) they designed the last title for. That's NOT easy folks. It would be different if you could "legally" crack open a console and upgrade the hardware.

That's why Race Pro is what it is. It's a NO FRILLS text book SIM for the consoles. It's an excellent example that shows that in order to have a good physics engine.., and great tuning on a SIM designed for a console.., you'll have to take a hit in other areas. With Race Pro.., that was the graphics.
 
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