GTR N24 Weird Things

[FoRiZon]

I noticed several things about the GTR N24 in GT6 Demo:

- Even though its an RWD car, it is almost impossible to slide the car unless you do 360. It gives a huge understeer. (I assume it still carries the torque system from the normal GTR so maybe its not so weird)

- Also the suspension seems buggy. I run the car on the kerbs and it literally bounces most of the time (especially on the chicane before the start line).

- And if you accelerate the car on sand, notice that the car is nudging up before it sets off no matter it going forward or reverse. I think this isn't happened on GT5.

I just hope PD fix it soon.

 

[georgetigra]

I noticed several things about the GTR N24 in GT6 Demo:

- Even though its an RWD car, it is almost impossible to slide the car unless you do 360. It gives a huge understeer. (I assume it still carries the torque system from the normal GTR so maybe its not so weird)

- Also the suspension seems buggy. I run the car on the kerbs and it literally bounces most of the time (especially on the chicane before the start line).



I just hope PD fix it soon.

Why you believe is weird all those things?

 

[CodeRedR51]

Bonus Event Discussion Thread

 

[FoRiZon]

Why you believe is weird all those things?

Not really. But its kinda distracting.

Also there's a point where my car plungs up straight to the air by several meters when I hit the kerbs. It quickly invalidates my whole lap.

Bonus Event Discussion Thread

Sorry. I thought this thread would discuss the car itself.

 

[jules283]

The understeer is due to that huge rear wing.

 

[Raitziger]

The understeer is due to that huge rear wing.

Well done for the design of the racing car

 

[jules283]

Well done for the design of the racing car

Thankyou.

 

[Sage Ages]

I noticed several things about the GTR N24 in GT6 Demo:

- Even though its an RWD car, it is almost impossible to slide the car unless you do 360. It gives a huge understeer.

It has a very large amount of downforce.

(I assume it still carries the torque system from the normal GTR so maybe its not so weird)

Its RWD. That would be impossible.

- Also the suspension seems buggy. I run the car on the kerbs and it literally bounces most of the time (especially on the chicane before the start line).

It has a ridiculously stiff suspension (20k ish spring rate, stiff dampers)

 

[Falango]

- And if you accelerate the car on sand, notice that the car is nudging up before it sets off no matter it going forward or reverse. I think this isn't happened on GT5.

The other cars do that too........it's called idling.

 

[ildd]

I was drifting the "Luffield" corner pretty easily with my DS3(on demand, not accidental). Every other corner was really jerky though.

 

[dimangelogtp]

Well i guess we have to start all over again with are technics because of the new physics and I'm pretty sure that the GTR isn't that easy to drift in real life either its a track car not a drift car !!!

 

[Foxiol]

Don´t judge physics if you are playing with a controller.

Controller makes everything unrealistic.
You can´t turn as fast with a wheel compared to a controller and of course the car will make unpredictable things and at the very same time it can be easily controlled. (drifters and such who believe they are "pros" using controller...try with a wheel and then we can talk)

Try driving with a wheel and then you can say if the car behaves like the real one or at least close to it.
It will not react the same if you make behave it in an unrealistic way.

If PD made changes to the suspension and tyre physics trying to make it feel and behave more realistic, if you are using a controller those changes will be even more noticeable for you...that´s why maybe people are confused.

People like me who are used to use a G27, noticed a substantial changes but for the better. There are still some weird things that need to be corrected as the inertia of the car and brakes.
The overall simulation feels right. Still needs a lot of work.

 

[Exorcet]

Controller makes everything unrealistic.

If you can't do that, the physics are broken and terrible.

The controller makes no difference, and if you think it does, you're probably doing something wrong.

On the understeer from the wing, there's plenty of downforce up front. The GT6 physics still lack in the tire department. Until that's fixed, everything is going to drive strangely.

 

[KinLM]

EDIT nevermind

 

[Foxiol]

If you can't do that, the physics are broken and terrible.

The controller makes no difference, and if you think it does, you're probably doing something wrong.

On the understeer from the wing, there's plenty of downforce up front. The GT6 physics still lack in the tire department. Until that's fixed, everything is going to drive strangely.

Controller makes a difference because you are not feeling the cars at all. It is more visual than anything.

Physics are exactly the same no matter what you are using but by using a controller you can´t control the car as it really is.

Try to turn the wheels of the car with a proper steering-wheel as fast as you can do it with a controller. It is not the same...that little variable applies to the physics.

And no sorry I´m not doing anything wrong at all, it is just a fact.

I play games since 1990...with controllers, joystics, keyboard and mouse, wheels, motion controller, etc. Depending which type of control you are using it changes the feeling and the reactions in the game. A simple fact.

Have a nice day.

 

[Exorcet]

Controller makes a difference because you are not feeling the cars at all. It is more visual than anything.

That's not a physics issue, so it shouldn't keep you from judging the physics. It's also true of a wheel, it's not going to tell you as much as a real car.

Try to turn the wheels of the car with a proper steering-wheel as fast as you can do it with a controller. It is not the same...that little variable applies to the physics.

With low amounts of steering lock to lock (900 is unrealistic for some cars) You can probably steer as fast. But again, this doesn't really make much difference. The physics still need to react to your input no matter what your input is. The input is different on the controller, but this has no bearing on the physics.

And no sorry I´m not doing anything wrong at all, it is just a fact.

The difference in input between wheel and controller is fact. That only wheel users can make physics judgements is as unfactual as you can get.

 

[Foxiol]

That's not a physics issue, so it shouldn't keep you from judging the physics. It's also true of a wheel, it's not going to tell you as much as a real car.



With low amounts of steering lock to lock (900 is unrealistic for some cars) You can probably steer as fast. But again, this doesn't really make much difference. The physics still need to react to your input no matter what your input is. The input is different on the controller, but this has no bearing on the physics.


The difference in input between wheel and controller is fact. That only wheel users can make physics judgements is as unfactual as you can get.

Oh no no, everyone can make a judgement about the physics no matter what type of control are you using but the thing is that variables are different when you are using a controller and not a wheel.

Agreed about the 900º unrealistic steering in a lot of cars, but still when you are using a wheel you never use those 900º to turn or take curves...with a controller you are always moving the wheels of the car at the limit and then counteracting with little moves of your stick so you can control the car.

Same with the wheel when you feel that you are loosing the car, the difference is that you feel that in your hands at the very moment. So you can feel the physics way more than with a controller. As I said before, it is "actual feeling" against "visuals".

With the wheel you react because of the feeling that the wheel is giving to you and also the visuals (wheel users drive from cockpit view mostly), but controller players use the back of the car so they can see what it is happening and then they can react to the situation or the weird movement of the car.

Most of the time, the car behaves different because of the controller and because wheels are "over-spinning" instead of make the right "angle" to take that curve. So that has to make an effect in the physics somehow. If you do that in real life with a car (turning all the direction to one side in a not so closed curve and at a decent speed) you can make the car roll in a hearth beat. That won´t happen in GT, the car keeps going.

(to see what I´m trying to explain check "Moose test" on you tube, which is a test made for all cars...then try the same in the game and you´ll see what I´m talking about...yet the game won´t react like that no matter which type of control you use, but you may get the idea of why I´m saying that variables change)

Sorry if I can´t explain better...not my main language and I do the best to get to the point, lol. Technicalities are not my speciality at the time to try to explain something.

I know what you are saying but hope you can get my point of view. Also sometimes I use the controller to try some things....so I know how different it is.

Again, physics won´t change, variables does because you are making them change because of the input.

 

[Greyout]

Saying that the a controller allows you to turn the wheels faster then is humanly possible in real life is not entirely accurate.

The "controller sensitivity" setting adjusts how fast the steering responds. But, if you move the steering knob left and right in the cockpit view, you will notice that the arms of the driver and the wheel he is clutching lags behind the position of the joystick. Its more like you are telling the driver which way to steer, rather then actually steering. He doesn't move the wheel any faster then a real person can.

I play with the controller, and something that concerns me about switching to a wheel - if you watch a video where you can see both the on-screen steering wheel and the players steering wheel, you will see that there is still a noticeable delay between the steering wheel inputs and the game's displayed inputs.

Part of this is unavoidable - modern TV's have a tiny delay between their input signal and their output visual and audio. I'm not sure if the hardware or the PS3 is partially to blame, but it makes me feel like there is a little potential realism given away there.

I'm happy using a controller. I've used a controller since GT1. I can be very smooth with it, and its second nature to me - only because I've done it for years. Now, give me a first person shooter to play, and I am horrible with a controller!

Edit: Also, my humble opinion is that the cars are night and day difference between GT5 and GT6. You get a much better sense of the car suspension working around a corner - I've noticed, when pitching the heavy 370Z into a corner, if you go across a bump, there is a tiny bit of evidence of the car being under-damped... just a little bit extra bound and rebound can be felt on the outside as the car works over an imperfection in the track.

I also noticed, in the previous video posted of the 370 doing donuts, that when the car launched and the rear squatted, there was obvious positive camber gain shown as the front suspension drooped.

I am very hopeful about GT6. I suspect that this will be the version that finally gets the suspension tuning right, and roll bar, spring, and damper adjustments will actually, finally, resemble real life (no more super-stiff front, super-soft rear FWD cars!)

 

[tinram]

Physics, if you are talking about how a car feels then you CANNOT judge this with a controller. Unless there is a car out there that is controlled by a joy stick/controller then sure you can judge its physics.

So if you will be judging physics it's best to put a side note indicating that you are using a controller, so wheel users can ignore it and vice versa.

 

[Exorcet]

Agreed about the 900º unrealistic steering in a lot of cars, but still when you are using a wheel you never use those 900º to turn or take curves

Right but the amount of steering determines how fast you can go from one side to the other. For a sports car, it's pretty fast. For a race car, it's lightning fast.

Also, the controller doesn't let you turn to the max all the time, there is an assist that turns the wheels until they reach peak grip.

Same with the wheel when you feel that you are loosing the car, the difference is that you feel that in your hands at the very moment. So you can feel the physics way more than with a controller. As I said before, it is "actual feeling" against "visuals".

You get feedback on the controller, so it actually does allow you to feel things. But this isn't about feeling the physics overall so much as a specific event (loss of grip) time with a controller, or wheel for that matter would probably negate most of the difference between the two. For me, the only real difference a wheel has ever made is precision.

Most of the time, the car behaves different because of the controller and because wheels are "over-spinning" instead of make the right "angle" to take that curve.

GT automatically puts you at the correct angle when using a controller. If it didn't, people would just steer at the correct angle or not be fast at all. Either way, it would allow for the same level of commentary on physics. The controller physics would be exactly as correct and noticeable, the input would just be different.

So that has to make an effect in the physics somehow.

It doesn't, though at this point it looks like it's a wording issue. When you're talking wheel vs controller, physics goes out the window. It's only input that matters. It's like comparing a slalom to skidpad. The physics are exactly the same in both cases, but the car is doing something different.

If you do that in real life with a car (turning all the direction to one side in a not so closed curve and at a decent speed) you can make the car roll in a hearth beat. That won´t happen in GT, the car keeps going.

That's because with a controller, you're always at the correct steering angle. Also, the car wouldn't roll, it would just understeer.

(to see what I´m trying to explain check "Moose test" on you tube, which is a test made for all cars...then try the same in the game and you´ll see what I´m talking about...yet the game won´t react like that no matter which type of control you use, but you may get the idea of why I´m saying that variables change)

The moose test, or really any driving dynamics work equally well regardless of controller used. Again, only inputs have changed. The wheel and the controller might act differently when performing the test owing to different inputs, but neither is more correct. The car acted based on a given input. If you transfer the wheel input to the controller, the controller will act exactly like the wheel and vice versa.

Sorry if I can´t explain better...not my main language and I do the best to get to the point, lol. Technicalities are not my speciality at the time to try to explain something.

I think I do. We agree that the controller and wheel can make things behave differently. However I am saying that none of it has anything to do with physics.

Physics, if you are talking about how a car feels then you CANNOT judge this with a controller. Unless there is a car out there that is controlled by a joy stick/controller then sure you can judge its physics.

This makes no sense. It also would mean wheel users can't comment on anything since for 99% of the cars their wheels/pedals/shifter would be incorrect for the car they are using (unless the car uses a video game controller and has anti inertial devices).

So if you will be judging physics it's best to put a side note indicating that you are using a controller, so wheel users can ignore it and vice versa.

A waste of time and a potentially discussion harming misconception. Controller users and wheel users can directly communicate with each other on the physics unless PD goes out of their way to artificially change the physics depending on controls used. This has apparently never happened, and the steering assist given to controllers is no such thing because it only has an impact on input.

 

[LeMansAid]

Saying that the a controller allows you to turn the wheels faster then is humanly possible in real life is not entirely accurate.

The "controller sensitivity" setting adjusts how fast the steering responds. But, if you move the steering knob left and right in the cockpit view, you will notice that the arms of the driver and the wheel he is clutching lags behind the position of the joystick. Its more like you are telling the driver which way to steer, rather then actually steering. He doesn't move the wheel any faster then a real person can.

You are assuming that the animation perfectly equates to what happens where "the rubber hits the road"? There could be accelerated actual effect vs visual effect.

 

[TetreRouge]

I noticed several things about the GTR N24 in GT6 Demo:

- Even though its an RWD car, it is almost impossible to slide the car unless you do 360. It gives a huge understeer. (I assume it still carries the torque system from the normal GTR so maybe its not so weird)

- Also the suspension seems buggy. I run the car on the kerbs and it literally bounces most of the time (especially on the chicane before the start line).

- And if you accelerate the car on sand, notice that the car is nudging up before it sets off no matter it going forward or reverse. I think this isn't happened on GT5.

I just hope PD fix it soon.

The understeer is due to the huge rear wing = it's running alot of rear downforce and it makes sense, you don't want an oversteering car at the Nurburgring, this is also why the traction is good (who the hell want's a racecar to oversteer in an endurance race?!).

The suspension isn't really buggy, if you watch a few Blancpain Endurance races you'll notice that the cars to tend to 'bounce' alot over the kerbs, it's either set up or how the teams choose to run the cars. Remember it isn't like F1 where there's a limit on howmuch kerb you can use, in GT cars a lot of your overall speed over the course of a race (tyre wear included) depends on how you use the kerbs, generally the fastest drivers are the ones who can use the most kerb without having the tyres 'slip' so much. This is one of the main reasons why the HPT Motorsport Mercedes SLS won last weekends Spa 24hrs.

As for sand, if you're saying the cars nose is pitching up when you try to accelerate through sand then that's pretty much what should happen (minus getting the rear stuck/beached!)

Every thread I comment on becomes dead lol, you guys really hate me that much eh? lol... explains the PSN inbox abuse.

 

[FoRiZon]

The understeer is due to the huge rear wing = it's running alot of rear downforce and it makes sense, you don't want an oversteering car at the Nurburgring, this is also why the traction is good (who the hell want's a racecar to oversteer in an endurance race?!).

Not sure though. But from all the RWD race cars in gran turismo, that GTR has the most traction so huge it behaves like an 4WD. Maybe the new tires model.

The suspension isn't really buggy, if you watch a few Blancpain Endurance races you'll notice that the cars to tend to 'bounce' alot over the kerbs, it's either set up or how the teams choose to run the cars. Remember it isn't like F1 where there's a limit on how much kerb you can use, in GT cars a lot of your overall speed over the course of a race (tyre wear included) depends on how you use the kerbs, generally the fastest drivers are the ones who can use the most kerb without having the tyres 'slip' so much. This is one of the main reasons why the HPT Motorsport Mercedes SLS won last weekends Spa 24hrs.

But the problem is sometimes the tires suddenly catch up the air when the tires on the kerbs making it completely uncontrollable and changes direction. Its not even on full speed (70Mph). (Unless you talking about the slight 'bump' on the kerbs. But silverstones bump is very small to catch the air.)

Also, where does blancpain endurance take place? Never heard of that one.

As for sand, if you're saying the cars nose is pitching up when you try to accelerate through sand then that's pretty much what should happen (minus getting the rear stuck/beached!)

But even when I hit the accel at 5% from idle, it was fully pitched immediately, not progressively. And it
happened on reverse too.

Sorry for no response for a long time.

 

[Bo]

Also, what does blancpain endurance take place? Never heard of that one

Basically just a GT3 Endurance series, a lot of British GT and FIA GT cars compete.

 

[FoRiZon]

Basically just a GT3 Endurance series, a lot of British GT and FIA GT cars compete.

Lol sorry. Should be 'where' not 'what'. That makes my argument clear. I suggest its silverstone isn't it?

 

[Bo]

It is held everywhere, for example last week's Spa 24h. Silverstone is one of the tracks though, so we could hold our own little Blancpain series:idea: