Have Stock Brakes Been Weakened in GT7?

[XSquareStickIt]

I've had a sneaking suspicion driving stock road cars in GT7 that their braking distances feel a tad longer than they did in GT Sport (which in turn felt WAY longer than in GT6). To confirm this, I did a quick test on both GTS and GT7 with a completely bone stock TVR Tuscan Speed 6 on the default Sport Hard tyres, ABS off, and default brake balance of 0 (I've had to buy a brake balance controller from the tuning shop to get the brake balance to show up on the MFD in GT7 in the video, but the default value with no controller is still 0). Both tests were done on my G29. Grip loss settings were set to "Real" on both games.

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In GT Sport, slamming the brakes locks up the tyres after a while, and plumes of smoke can be seen from the tyres. Skid marks are clearly left on the tarmac behind the car. In GT7, I barely got any tyre squeals, let alone smoke or tyre marks. Nothing at all.

It feels to me like the stock brakes were artificially weakened to encourage buying aftermarket Brembos from the tuning shop... utterly distasteful if true. Makes me wonder if other aspects of the car, such as the roll bars, were similarly weakened to get us to buy aftermarket parts as well.

What do you guys think?

 

[Nielsen]

I have the opposite experience. In GT7 there’s a noticeable sensation of gradual stopping power as you modulate the brakes from light through medium to hard application. In GT Sport the brakes felt like they required close to full application before they started to work efficiently. This improvement is especially noticeable with the hyper cars, which were pretty difficult to stop in GT Sport.

That said, some cars in GT7 become very unstable on their stock brakes when braking from high speed. Examples includes Ferrari F8 Tributo and Nissan GT-R (R35). Apply their brakes with extreme caution if you don’t want to lose control of the car, but other cars don’t have this issue.

 

[xMAXIx79]

I also have the impression that the brakes work better and more powerfully, but this has the risk of locking the wheels, which increases the braking distance significantly.

So you not only have to relearn how to drive in GT7, but also how to brake.

 

[XSquareStickIt]

I have the opposite experience. In GT7 there’s a noticeable sensation of gradual stopping power as you modulate the brakes from light through medium to hard application. In GT Sport the brakes felt like they required close to full application before they started to work efficiently. This improvement is especially noticeable with the hyper cars, which were pretty difficult to stop in GT Sport.

That said, some cars in GT7 become very unstable on their stock brakes when braking from high speed. Examples includes Ferrari F8 Tributo and Nissan GT-R (R35). Apply their brakes with extreme caution if you don’t want to lose control of the car, but other cars don’t have this issue.

If you're finding that the brakes work better when modulating them, I assume you're talking about mid corner dabs or transitions, and not high speed deceleration? Do you notice that it takes longer for a car to stop from a high speed for a low speed corner?

I also have the impression that the brakes work better and more powerfully, but this has the risk of locking the wheels, which increases the braking distance significantly.

So you not only have to relearn how to drive in GT7, but also how to brake.

When you say that you get the impression that brakes work more powerfully, I assume you mean the brakes are more powerful in GT7 than in GTS? As my videos above show, the brakes in GT7 are horrendously weak, being unable to even utilise all of the grip available on Sport Hard tyres. Do you have any car/track combo you can recommend me trying to demonstrate that brakes in GT7 are stronger?

 

[Nuschel01]

Am I watching different videos? In GTS you brake at around the 500m marker and come to a stop near the 700m marker. In GT7 you brake in roughly the same spot but are stationary shortly after the 600m marker?

 

[XSquareStickIt]

Am I watching different videos? In GTS you brake at around the 500m marker and come to a stop near the 700m marker. In GT7 you brake in roughly the same spot but are stationary shortly after the 600m marker?

That's because the wheels locked up in GTS, greatly extending the stopping distances, which counterintuitively prove that the brakes are stronger in GTS. In GT7 the brakes are so weak they can't even lock the wheels.

 

[Nuschel01]

Might as well be that the tires have more grip? Turn on ABS and do your tests again. Just because brakes don't lock up anymore claiming brakes are weaker in GT7 is a bit far fetched imho.

 

[RoadRacer2556]

That's because the wheels locked up in GTS, greatly extending the stopping distances, which counterintuitively prove that the brakes are stronger in GTS. In GT7 the brakes are so weak they can't even lock the wheels.

Thats not how it works IRL. Locking up the brakes doesn't greatly extend stopping distance, it only extends it a little. Locking up the brakes DOES make it impossible to turn, and can induce yaw, which is why ABS is a fabulous tool. What you need to measure is how quickly the car stops, and/or how far it travels when stopping. Turn ABS on for your test. Also, the fact that the car in GT7 stopped in a shorter distance indicates the brakes are better, OR the tires have much more grip. Either way, the car stops faster.

 

[xMAXIx79]

Well, the fact that the brakes are so weak that the wheels can't lock is so ridiculous.. Maybe, since there are vehicles with generally bad brakes, the KPGC10 Skyline GT-R 2000 is such a car... But all "important" vehicles are good to very good on the brakes. However, I suspect that some here do not have a good feeling and hearing for the vehicles... and the squeaking of the tires is also very quiet, which is why it is on +2 in the volume settings for me.

Try e.g. not to brake with 100% braking force/pedal.... then you can see better whether ABS is already working.. because when it works, you are already using too much braking force, which increases the braking distance.

 

[Samus]

Off topic but damn, that is one of the ugliest roof cameras in the game. Why we can't also have bonnet view on all cars I don't know.

Might as well be that the tires have more grip? Turn on ABS and do your tests again. Just because brakes don't lock up anymore claiming brakes are weaker in GT7 is a bit far fetched imho.

The IRL car does not have ABS.

Probably better cars to test with, because of that.

 

[Nuschel01]

The IRL car does not have ABS.

I know, but OP isn't stating values of the real car anyways ¯\(ツ)/¯

 

[XSquareStickIt]

Might as well be that the tires have more grip? Turn on ABS and do your tests again. Just because brakes don't lock up anymore claiming brakes are weaker in GT7 is a bit far fetched imho.

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I think you might have some merit in saying that the tyres have more grip in GT7.

For more consistency, I put TCS on 1, ABS default, and used Automatic. I got the following results from the video. Since the video is 60FPS, each frame is 0.016 seconds, so the times shown here are ±0.016s. Unfortunately, I couldn't brake on the exact frame the car hits 200, so there's a bit of inconsistency there. On desktop, you can use the , and . keys to view the video frame by frame.

GTS
0-100: 5.066
0-200: 15.516
0-200-0: 21.200

21.200-15.516=5.684

GTS 200-0km/h time is 5.684s

GT7
0-100: 5.250
0-200: 14.533
0-200-0: 20.000

20.000-14.533=5.467

GT7 200-0km/h time is 5.467s

I really don't know what to think anymore. The car launches worse in GT7, which would imply the tyres have less grip in GT7, but the GT7 car hits 200km/h faster and stops better, all while failing to activate ABS at all (you can see how the ABS icon never flashed red, nor does the top end of the brake bar turn red), implying the tyres have more grip in GT7. In GTS, the car very much activates ABS as it should.

Very contradictory results. Anyone have any idea WTF is going on?

 

[Nuschel01]

In GTS, the car very much activates ABS as it should.

ABS only activates when the tires lock up irl