Having a crisis...Cynicism, good or bad?

[Jim Prower]

I'm becoming a Cynic, and I'm not sure if that's good or bad.

Today, I looked in this section, and it opened up a whole can of worms for me. I'm angrier, I don't feel as happy...I'm getting frustrated. and the worst thing is that it seems it's all a mystery to me. I don't know why, when I see all these prominent members saying things I may or may not disagree with...I can't understand it. I feel like I'm hardening up and it scares me.

Is it a good thing to be cynical? Is it bad? Someone help me on this...

 

[Danoff]

I'm not sure Cynicism is good or bad, like any state of mind. Anger, for example, can be either good or bad. Same for happiness.

What are you cynical about?

 

[Jim Prower]

Well...

I'm getting this odd feeling that you people are forcing me to question how good a place this really is, I guess. I'm questioning whether I really fit here.

I guess it started with the blowup on the Cool Wall awhile back. and then today, I looked in here...shocked a bit at the number of atheists whom I respect. I mean, it's fine, I'm not gonna stomp the Bible...Kinda like the way I view homosexuality...

and then there's the fact that I seem to be going against the grain for the sake of going against the grain. I mean, have you seen my line of "personal rules of cool?" Most of them are based on going exactly against what many people think. On reflection, I fear I'm becoming a jerk.

Y'see, I've always kinda seen a cynic as, inherently, a bad person. In fact, I think all argument is bad. Someone's right and someone's wrong, and they're fighting, and that's bad. Now I'm wondering if I'm a bad person.

 

[niky]

The act of being a cynic, itself, is not inherently bad, as long as you're realistically cynical. Disagree with someone or something for valid (from your point of view) reasons.

You can be cynical and happily sarcastic. Or you can be cynical, pessimistic and bitter.

If you find yourself deeply affected by what you read (and many of us who surf the forums feel that way at one time or another)... it's time to take a break, relax... go outside, do something else... get it out of your system.

I think your problem isn't cynicism. It's more of an anger management thing. You can't articulate what you feel or think, and it frustrates you. It's kind of hard to back away from a fight you can't win, or not get embroiled in one that you feel so strongly about... but sometimes it's the only way.


EDIT: Tree'd:

Argument for argument's sake is 99% of the reason forums were invented. No worries, there. The Cool Wall was built for medium broil.

-

Shocked at the atheists? Shocked that you respect them or that they're atheists? (sidenote: agnostic here)

 

[Jim Prower]

okay.

 

[Joey D]

Going against the grain like many did in the cool wall seems like you are just doing it to start a needless argument. Sort of like throwing a stone at a beehive for no other reason then you think it would be funny. However if you can back up your reasoning then it's fine.

Same goes for something like the religious discussion, as long as you can back up your beliefs then you'll be fine. There really isn't a right and wrong when it comes to religion since none of us know anything for sure.

You have to remember this is an opinion forum and just stating something like "Obama is the anti-Christ", "God is real, Atheist are ignorant" , etc. will make it seem like you are going against the grain for no reason. But if you state your opinion, give reasons why you believe that way, and then offer well thought out retorts to those who disagree with you people will respect you even if your opinions don't quite gel.

Foolkiller and I disagree on a lot of things but we can still have a decent discussion on something.

 

[Jim Prower]

I see...

I dunno, I think I say things, and sometimes can back them up well, other times can't. I mean, how do you guys get such huge knowledge bases in the first place?

 

[Joey D]

I see...

I dunno, I think I say things, and sometimes can back them up well, other times can't. I mean, how do you guys get such huge knowledge bases in the first place?

Then you shouldn't worry. Just continue giving your opinion to the best of your ability and just continue putting some thought into what you say. The only time you get slagged on is when you make ridiculous comments with no base. If someone attacks you for no reason, call them on it (politely), if it continues then report it.

And I can't speak for anyone else but if I'm interested in a topic, like the whole religion thing and universe thing, I read books, look online, etc. I've also had schooling in some rather odd subjects that are pretty meaningless outside a debate about some human mystery.

Like I said, a good book to check out is Bill Bryson's A Short History of Nearly Everything. It gives a brief overview of the world and how it's here in terms that doesn't take someone with a Ph.D. in physics, geology, chemistry, and biology to get the gist of it. The Elegant Universe by Brian Greene is another one. When something in a book like that peaks your interest just continue researching it, whether it's online, on the Discovery Channel or in another book. You'll be staggered how fast you learn things.

Oh and having a lot of free time helps .

 

[Jim Prower]

X3

If you're interested the way I think, a good choice would be Look Me In the Eyes by John Elder Robison. A self-taught engineer who made Kiss's exploding guitars...and an Aspie, like meself...but that's kinda offtopic...although, really, the topic never really addressed my problem in the first place.

I think I'm feeling a little better. I guess I need to work harder to learn that people who are debating really don't hate each other.

 

[niky]

I see...

I dunno, I think I say things, and sometimes can back them up well, other times can't. I mean, how do you guys get such huge knowledge bases in the first place?

Wikipedia.

Besides that, College, lots of books, and maintaining a wide variety of interests in various things.

The internet is a liberating place. You can find terabyte's worth of good texts on here if you have the patience and know what to look for. You can find untold petabytes' worth of garbage, as well. It's an interesting diversion, and if you get stuck following the hyperlinks down into the rabbit's hole, should take your mind off of things.

Of course, a lot of stuff doesn't get on the internet. And for that, the local library and a yen for discount books (it's really the older texts that don't make the jump to electronic media) help a lot.

I've got some really interesting stuff from scouring around. A complete H.G.Wells collection, reprinted from the original turn-of-the-century plates back in the 70's. A hardbound copy of Ringworld (!!!). A hardbound copy of Velikovsky's Worlds in Collision, and some interesting automotive books and magazines from the 80's and 90's. My house is a mess of books.

 

[CraftyLandShark]

X3

If you're interested the way I think, a good choice would be Look Me In the Eyes by John Elder Robison. A self-taught engineer who made Kiss's exploding guitars...and an Aspie, like meself...but that's kinda offtopic...although, really, the topic never really addressed my problem in the first place.

I think I'm feeling a little better. I guess I need to work harder to learn that people who are debating really don't hate each other.

Yeah, there's a very distinct difference between arguing and debate, and we all, myself included, use the terms interchangeably far too easily. One is emotionally driven, one is reason-based. That's not to say that there's never any crossover between the two though, for sure.

I wouldn't feel bad about getting discouraged by it every now and then - to cite your own example, imagine how atheists feel in day-to-day life, particularly in America, where virtually everyone you meet will look at you either like an alien or with contempt if you "come out" as an atheist. Perhaps that explains how passionately we'll defend our position when we find a forum where the deck isn't stacked against us.

 

[Public'sTwin]

The black & white/polarity of the poll options is a rather revealing element to your predicament.

 

[Omnis]

Stop drawing star fox characters.

If you want, take a break from GTP. I've done it on more than one occasion and it was good.

 

[Jim Prower]

Okay, think I'm done with this. might go ahead and take a little time off, other than for Auto News.

However, will still draw Star Fox characters. ;p

 

[homeforsummer]

I'd like to think of myself as an optimistic cynic. Work that one out. My girlfriend actually thinks I'm too cynical and reckons she's becoming one too from hanging around with me. But it makes her laugh, and I think that's important. If you're being realistically cynical and can deliver cynical comments in the right way, then it's a good thing. Cynical sarcasm is brilliant. People who say that sarcasm is the lowest form of wit are only saying that because they don't realise how brilliantly funny sarcasm can be...

 

[Mark T]

I've been having a rough time at work in the last year and I've noticed that I've become extremely cynical both in and out of work. I think it's actually become a problem and I really need to do something about it.

 

[TheCracker]

I think it's perfectly normal to become more cynical the older you get. The more you understand how human nature works, the more cynical you are bound to be.

Or is that just me being cynical?

 

[Duke]

I dunno, I think I say things, and sometimes can back them up well, other times can't. I mean, how do you guys get such huge knowledge bases in the first place?

By having discussions just like the ones we're having here. Discussions that prompt us to learn more factual information, or to question our own assumptions a little more deeply, and lead us to further refine our thinking.

Debate is a main vehicle by which learning is accomplished. Taking an opposing viewpoint and defending it as an exercise will broaden your thought process. Searching points of weakness in others' arguments can lead you to finding faults in your own.

I don't know if "cynicism" is the right word, since it implies you always think the worst of people. I prefer "skepticism" which means you question their assumptions and your own.

However, if this devolves into simply being contrarian for its own sake, you run the risk of letting public opinion dictate your thoughts just as surely as if you always blindly follow the conventional wisdom.

I'm also curious about your atheist comment, should you care to explain it.

 

[Dotini]

Jim, another thing to consider is the demographics of this forum: aggressive young males who are racing car nuts, like loud noises and stinky smoke, and universally love to blow the doors off the other guy!

Also, we are optimistic and expect to win, are materialistic, worldly, and very, very realistic. We can clearly see what's happening in the world around us and, naturally, it's bound to make us cynical, even if only in self-defense against the intrusion of yet another grim reality.

Things this forum is not: a bastion for the spiritual, contemplative, supportive, sensitive, maternal, quiet, shy or soulful. As wonderful and essential as these virtues are, they are probably best sought elsewhere.

Jim, I've seen your contributions in this and other GTP forums. I find your voice to be sensible, intelligent and candid, and I appreciate your remarks very much. I hope you will stay with us as you progress along through life. I'm sure we have much to learn from you.


Respectfully yours,
Dotini

 

[YSSMAN]

I think it's perfectly normal to become more cynical the older you get. The more you understand how human nature works, the more cynical you are bound to be.

Or is that just me being cynical?

This. This is true. If I were able to meet myself now five years ago, I would have hated me. Really, there is nothing wrong with being cynical, its how you apply yourself because of it.

 

[DK]

Anger, for example, can be either good or bad.

Please explain how it can be good?

 

[Duke]

If someone violates your rights, you should be angry about it. That's good anger.

 

[homeforsummer]

If someone violates your rights, you should be angry about it. That's good anger.

To which I'd add, if you can then joke about it and take the mick out of it, then that's good cynicism also...

 

[Dotini]

If someone violates your rights, you should be angry about it. That's good anger.

If someone violates your wife or child, a certain degree of umbrage would not be inappropriate.

 

[niky]

TMI. Not the right thread. I think a certain amount of cold hard steel shoved straight into someone's gut is the answer to that one.

People who say that sarcasm is the lowest form of wit are only saying that because they don't realise how brilliantly funny sarcasm can be...

Or they're likely too dull to come up with a witty retort.

I think it's perfectly normal to become more cynical the older you get. The more you understand how human nature works, the more cynical you are bound to be.

Or is that just me being cynical?

Too true.

Though being cynical about the human condition doesn't stop me from being optimistic about my own condition, or stop me from striving to change it.

 

[homeforsummer]

That's because there's a certain pleasure in being cynical about things and then beating the system that's caused you to be cynical by rising above it...