Heusinkveld Sim Rig GT Build
- Thread starter matt33w
- 12 comments
- 7,314 views
Still a lot to do, but thought I would post my progress and thoughts building the Heusinkveld Sim Rig GT.
All round excellent service from Heusinkveld. Really fast shipping, excellent packing and many extra parts to allow for bespoke setup and/or config changes. Here are the parts:
The machined parts are of excellent quality. It was also apparent right away that a lot of work went into the design as everything seems to fit perfectly.
The build was pretty straight forward due to the really simple and clean design. Other than getting the hang of using 8020 connectors (I had never used them or 8020 before) there was nothing tricky about it. Here is the build in progress:
One of my reasons for going with the Heusinkveld was due to the compact footprint. Was not disappointed here at all. The footprint is relatively small, but the rig is REALLY rigit. No flex anywhere.. the design is simple, but super strong. Also worth noting I am reasonably big at 6'4 and 225lbs but have no trouble fitting vey comfortably with many possible adjustments.
I also went with the Heusinkveld in order to get a nice clean setup by using their pedels (Pro version, not Ultimates) and sequential shifter that all integrates nicely. I also like that the wheel mount supports OSW.
Next was the hardest part (to date) of the build, and that was the seat. Picked up a drivers side seat from a WRX STI in great condition for $260. Very happy with it. Slide adjust forward/back, tilt back, and height adjust (height adjust was not available on the passenger side seats for this year WRX STI so watch out for that if you are in the market for one).
The Heusinkveld kit comes with mounts for racing style side mount seats. I opted for something more comfortable.. and with adjustments. The challenge for me here was to get the seat mounted as low as possible (since I am tall) and allow the height adjust to let smaller ppl get higher. To do this I went to a local steel fabricator and had them cut and weld plates onto the rails. This let me mount the seat much lower than if I built 8020 cross-beams/similar.
The seat rails were wider than the rig, but the 8020 brackets provided a nice solid landing spot for them. With hindsight I should have had wider plates welded to the seat rails, but its very stable as it is so no harm done. That said.. a solid plate across the entire width would have given me something to mound a buttkicker to and be able to isolate the seat from the frame. I can still do that, but it will be an additional plate and add a part that probably was not needed (I thought I planned carefully.. but didnt even think about simvibe).
Monitors were a little awkward and needed several spacers in order to bolt on flush. Once setup and aligned, adjustments are very easy. I also replaced many of the allen bolts with turn-handle fasteners to allow adjustments without needing a allen key. Heusinkveld provided these for the pedal plate and seat mounts, I bought many more and put them almost everywhere! On the monitor arms, on the steering column, etc.
Bought an OSW simucube kit from Joe Sullivan. Cannot believe how good this is.. I have never felt anything quite like it, and Joe was top notch to deal with. I would strongly suggest you sell anything you need to (including internal organs if need be) to buy an OSW from Joe.
Fit on the fabricated bracket from Heusinkveld was again perfect. Connected the PC, mounted the wheel, etc and after the usual frigging about to configure everything its all up and running.
Small mige OSW: (great comments in Joe's setup instructions for the small mige: "this is not a toy. at half power it can easily still break your fingers" which I found to be an accurate statement though fortunately stopped short of any part of me breaking)
Difficult to tell from these photos.. but lots of available adjustments on the rig. Monitors up/down/tilt/swing, wheel mount up/down/tilt, seq shifter with smaller adjustments.
Finally the PC:
All up and running and could not be happier. Next steps with be simvibe/amp/transducers, button box, H-shifter and some kind of shift light display or analog tach/speedo cluster. Lots of research to do on all of these.. simvibe plan almost set, but the dash/buttons/shift light decision will be several weeks out.
Again.. cannot praise Heusinkveld Engineering enough for all of their parts (hoping they will build an H-shifter!) and also Joe Sullivan for his OSW advice and excellent small mige kit.
Wow.. that ended up long! The most I have typed in about 5yrs, hopefully some of it useful to some of you.
Matty
All round excellent service from Heusinkveld. Really fast shipping, excellent packing and many extra parts to allow for bespoke setup and/or config changes. Here are the parts:
The machined parts are of excellent quality. It was also apparent right away that a lot of work went into the design as everything seems to fit perfectly.
The build was pretty straight forward due to the really simple and clean design. Other than getting the hang of using 8020 connectors (I had never used them or 8020 before) there was nothing tricky about it. Here is the build in progress:
One of my reasons for going with the Heusinkveld was due to the compact footprint. Was not disappointed here at all. The footprint is relatively small, but the rig is REALLY rigit. No flex anywhere.. the design is simple, but super strong. Also worth noting I am reasonably big at 6'4 and 225lbs but have no trouble fitting vey comfortably with many possible adjustments.
I also went with the Heusinkveld in order to get a nice clean setup by using their pedels (Pro version, not Ultimates) and sequential shifter that all integrates nicely. I also like that the wheel mount supports OSW.
Next was the hardest part (to date) of the build, and that was the seat. Picked up a drivers side seat from a WRX STI in great condition for $260. Very happy with it. Slide adjust forward/back, tilt back, and height adjust (height adjust was not available on the passenger side seats for this year WRX STI so watch out for that if you are in the market for one).
The Heusinkveld kit comes with mounts for racing style side mount seats. I opted for something more comfortable.. and with adjustments. The challenge for me here was to get the seat mounted as low as possible (since I am tall) and allow the height adjust to let smaller ppl get higher. To do this I went to a local steel fabricator and had them cut and weld plates onto the rails. This let me mount the seat much lower than if I built 8020 cross-beams/similar.
The seat rails were wider than the rig, but the 8020 brackets provided a nice solid landing spot for them. With hindsight I should have had wider plates welded to the seat rails, but its very stable as it is so no harm done. That said.. a solid plate across the entire width would have given me something to mound a buttkicker to and be able to isolate the seat from the frame. I can still do that, but it will be an additional plate and add a part that probably was not needed (I thought I planned carefully.. but didnt even think about simvibe).
Monitors were a little awkward and needed several spacers in order to bolt on flush. Once setup and aligned, adjustments are very easy. I also replaced many of the allen bolts with turn-handle fasteners to allow adjustments without needing a allen key. Heusinkveld provided these for the pedal plate and seat mounts, I bought many more and put them almost everywhere! On the monitor arms, on the steering column, etc.
Bought an OSW simucube kit from Joe Sullivan. Cannot believe how good this is.. I have never felt anything quite like it, and Joe was top notch to deal with. I would strongly suggest you sell anything you need to (including internal organs if need be) to buy an OSW from Joe.
Fit on the fabricated bracket from Heusinkveld was again perfect. Connected the PC, mounted the wheel, etc and after the usual frigging about to configure everything its all up and running.
Small mige OSW: (great comments in Joe's setup instructions for the small mige: "this is not a toy. at half power it can easily still break your fingers" which I found to be an accurate statement though fortunately stopped short of any part of me breaking)
Difficult to tell from these photos.. but lots of available adjustments on the rig. Monitors up/down/tilt/swing, wheel mount up/down/tilt, seq shifter with smaller adjustments.
Finally the PC:
All up and running and could not be happier. Next steps with be simvibe/amp/transducers, button box, H-shifter and some kind of shift light display or analog tach/speedo cluster. Lots of research to do on all of these.. simvibe plan almost set, but the dash/buttons/shift light decision will be several weeks out.
Again.. cannot praise Heusinkveld Engineering enough for all of their parts (hoping they will build an H-shifter!) and also Joe Sullivan for his OSW advice and excellent small mige kit.
Wow.. that ended up long! The most I have typed in about 5yrs, hopefully some of it useful to some of you.
Matty
Attachments
Mr Latte
Premium
- 5,044
- N Ireland
Nice build and components Matty.
That would indeed be a fun cockpit with good comfort and it looks very stylish too, yet strong and easily adjustable where it needs to be, superb sir!!!
* In reference to our last chat/PM, you dont mention here what you discussed in the other thread regards tactile and concerns of vibrations/noise and what may be required to properly isolate.
-----------------------------------------
If you do decide to go down the tactile immersion route?
You mentioned budget is not such a big issue, then my first point of advice would be to buy a single amp that has enough wattage that it would enable you to test/compare 2-3 different priced/performance units to determine for yourself their operating differences and return those that you do not want. Easy to discuss which models/units if you choose to consider such option.
Chassis Mode
Configuration would give you more hassle but do not be discouraged. You could easily adapt your build to use two individual "Simvibe Extensions", with one for pedals and one for seat.
This avoids the issues with having to worry about additional channel isolation for different units used in Simvibe Chassis Mode and its usage of directional L/R effects. Really "Chassis Mode" is only of benefit if you want some form of directional tactile sensation but from my own experiences, the majority of effects do not deliver such anyways.
It's still possible to have a really high performance and immersive sensation with just two "Extension Mode" units. The better their performance then the more capable they may be, but looking at your build I see a man that appreciates quality products.
Only from testing will you discover and be able to consider different options for isolation and determine what models or options suits you best. Isolaton options can be covered, although honestly think you should consider a 3-4" multi-layer platform that can be used for this purpose. This can be made still to look good and fit in with your rig. A direction to look into is anti-vibration materials and floating floors, example here.
It is also possible to have acoustic sound deadening from specialist materials for walls, ceilings or floors too. Just opening your eyes to whats possible as optons. From what I see and have experienced, particularly with the biggest LFE, a working solution is formed from layers, not a single product or item regards fully preventing vibrations travelling.
Others may have their own recommendatons, wish you well and thanks for sharing the build.
That would indeed be a fun cockpit with good comfort and it looks very stylish too, yet strong and easily adjustable where it needs to be, superb sir!!!
* In reference to our last chat/PM, you dont mention here what you discussed in the other thread regards tactile and concerns of vibrations/noise and what may be required to properly isolate.
-----------------------------------------
If you do decide to go down the tactile immersion route?
You mentioned budget is not such a big issue, then my first point of advice would be to buy a single amp that has enough wattage that it would enable you to test/compare 2-3 different priced/performance units to determine for yourself their operating differences and return those that you do not want. Easy to discuss which models/units if you choose to consider such option.
Chassis Mode
Configuration would give you more hassle but do not be discouraged. You could easily adapt your build to use two individual "Simvibe Extensions", with one for pedals and one for seat.
This avoids the issues with having to worry about additional channel isolation for different units used in Simvibe Chassis Mode and its usage of directional L/R effects. Really "Chassis Mode" is only of benefit if you want some form of directional tactile sensation but from my own experiences, the majority of effects do not deliver such anyways.
It's still possible to have a really high performance and immersive sensation with just two "Extension Mode" units. The better their performance then the more capable they may be, but looking at your build I see a man that appreciates quality products.
Only from testing will you discover and be able to consider different options for isolation and determine what models or options suits you best. Isolaton options can be covered, although honestly think you should consider a 3-4" multi-layer platform that can be used for this purpose. This can be made still to look good and fit in with your rig. A direction to look into is anti-vibration materials and floating floors, example here.
It is also possible to have acoustic sound deadening from specialist materials for walls, ceilings or floors too. Just opening your eyes to whats possible as optons. From what I see and have experienced, particularly with the biggest LFE, a working solution is formed from layers, not a single product or item regards fully preventing vibrations travelling.
Others may have their own recommendatons, wish you well and thanks for sharing the build.
Last edited:
Thanks for your comments Mr Latte. The priorities in this build were: top quality wheel/pedals, GPU/screens allowing 144fps, a simple/clean and rigid rig that I can modify, and a comfortable/adjustable seat. Decided not to build an average motion rig in order to fund a very good static.
This is where I am on tactile -
Objective: clean/simple design that performs well without lots of engineering (willing to reduce performance to avoid engineering/platforms/etc).
Current noise isolation: ceiling and walls below are floating, 2xdrywall separated by green glue, mass loaded vinyl under the hardwood, quiet boxes for the recessed cans below. Rig also sitting on heavy duty gym flooring (dense rubber).
Mode: extensions. I do not want the complexity of CM and my guess is that our eyes probably trick us into knowing where the tactile is coming from (and ears for those with corner speakers). I also think the seat frame and pedal base (in my build) would merge the left/right to a degree.
Future noise isolation: 1) rubber seat/pedal mounts to keep vibration away from the rig/base, 2) replace rig feet with vibration absorbing mounts, 3) have the 4 rig feet/mounts sitting on multi-compound rubber-cork 6x6" squares.
Component thoughts -
Shakers: Very tricky. Am thinking 1 x Buttkicker Advance for the seat and 1 x Buttkicker Mini for the pedals. Major question is whether these can be "turned down" if the vibration isolation is an issue. Not sure whether a piston style shaker can be turned down and function properly vs perhaps going with multiple ADX style shakers which I am sure can simply be turned down if need be.
Amp: iNuke 3000DSP. Should be ample power to allow adding shakers/changing config if the need arises.
Matty
This is where I am on tactile -
Objective: clean/simple design that performs well without lots of engineering (willing to reduce performance to avoid engineering/platforms/etc).
Current noise isolation: ceiling and walls below are floating, 2xdrywall separated by green glue, mass loaded vinyl under the hardwood, quiet boxes for the recessed cans below. Rig also sitting on heavy duty gym flooring (dense rubber).
Mode: extensions. I do not want the complexity of CM and my guess is that our eyes probably trick us into knowing where the tactile is coming from (and ears for those with corner speakers). I also think the seat frame and pedal base (in my build) would merge the left/right to a degree.
Future noise isolation: 1) rubber seat/pedal mounts to keep vibration away from the rig/base, 2) replace rig feet with vibration absorbing mounts, 3) have the 4 rig feet/mounts sitting on multi-compound rubber-cork 6x6" squares.
Component thoughts -
Shakers: Very tricky. Am thinking 1 x Buttkicker Advance for the seat and 1 x Buttkicker Mini for the pedals. Major question is whether these can be "turned down" if the vibration isolation is an issue. Not sure whether a piston style shaker can be turned down and function properly vs perhaps going with multiple ADX style shakers which I am sure can simply be turned down if need be.
Amp: iNuke 3000DSP. Should be ample power to allow adding shakers/changing config if the need arises.
Matty
Last edited:
Mr Latte
Premium
- 5,044
- N Ireland
Okay good to get more of your own thoughts.
Ive never known anyone to do various tests with installations or configurations and get the best out of tactile with their first attempt/installation. Yet Ive seen plenty that only do one and settle with it.
Looking at your build it does look like the monitors are as high as can go? If so and you raise your seat with isolators this may cause some re-adjusting or modifying. Something you may have already been looking into.
The good thing with having only EM on seat/pedals means a single plate/platform rather than L/R sections will be needed. Yes isolating each prior to the main frame is a good idea, not just for reducing the tactile to merge into the base but to help sustain it where you want it in the pedals/seat.
Yes the inuke 3000 dsp is a good choice with some benefits.
With it, you could set different profiles to its memory that suits when you need the tactile vibrations to be reduced/quieter. Basically giving you more control over how your units will operate the tactile not just only reducing general volume control.
Buttkickers/Tactile
For the seat I would buy the LFE full-size model over the Advance model. It's only $40 more but it can perform much better with the lowest frequencies. I would point out that it's not just about differences in wattages. I've yet to find anyone, not impressed by one and for under 50Hz performance it is the best choice without doubt.
For the pedals, that's a harder decision.....
I give you a scenario that with one amp allows you to get an impression for 3 possible configurations. It depends on how much patience you have or if your bothered to do such but below are options I would be keen to compare if it was my own build.
Inuke DSP 3000
BK LFE
ADX
Go Large
While at the moment I suggest only buying one to test
You could if you wanted, run two full-size LFE on the DSP 3000 using Bridge Mode. I myself have recently as my own aging DSP6000 is currently faulty. This would allow "1 Simvibe EM" group of effects be sent to both seat/pedals units for identical effects and powered by the one amp.
Big Seat / Small Pedals
At the other end of the spectrum, you may find an ADX is plenty in the pedals and just go with 2x Simvibe EM using their own effects and settings with ADX in pedals and LFE in seat. Again the inuke DSP3000 has you covered.
Best Possible Performance / Dual Units Vs 1
This my own preference based on my own testing in what I refer to "Dual Role"
It could be applied to both seat and pedals for the best potential performance you could get but then yes it does go into more money if wanting it in both seat/pedals requiring 1x inuke dsp 1000 with 2x ADX and 1x inuke dsp 3000 with 2x LFE. My advice is to test it in the seat compared to the above options to determine your own preference.
Testing / Comparing in seat only
Requires both the LFE & ADX attached to the seat but the two units will be operating together as one. This splits the workload of multiple effects over each unit and enables greater fine tuning to not only their performance abilities but also your own preference. It does require using some of the inuke dsp features but is not hard to configure a crossover and apply any boost/cut or equalisation of any frequencies (to either unit bear in mind) that you may wish to fine tune. Please keep in mind once configuration is done and you're happy, you simply save the profile on the amps. This may sound more complicated but it's not that much work or effort at all.
With this type of configuration, you could gain two potential benefits
1st, you will get the best low end performance from the LFE and the best speed or finer detailing by combining both a shaker and a transducer. Each have their own benefits when it comes to tactile immersion. With the inuke dsp you have further possibilities to tweak/tune if you desire to do so.
2nd, if when times require it you can only operate your tactile with just the ADX and have no awkard process to go through. Simply only power the amp for these and load a different profile if you want to use a different one.
Vibrations
Last point, the vibration factor will be higher/stronger when wattage is higher.
With decent isolation being used in more than one application really a unit like the ADX should not be a problem for you. Its the kicker models that may be more of the issue depending on how good your isolation turns out to be just how much wattage you can push to using without annoying others.
I do not have a great deal of personal on hands experience with various sound deadening or antivibration materials but have helped others that have implemented such with isolators and other solutions.
Ive never known anyone to do various tests with installations or configurations and get the best out of tactile with their first attempt/installation. Yet Ive seen plenty that only do one and settle with it.
Looking at your build it does look like the monitors are as high as can go? If so and you raise your seat with isolators this may cause some re-adjusting or modifying. Something you may have already been looking into.
The good thing with having only EM on seat/pedals means a single plate/platform rather than L/R sections will be needed. Yes isolating each prior to the main frame is a good idea, not just for reducing the tactile to merge into the base but to help sustain it where you want it in the pedals/seat.
Yes the inuke 3000 dsp is a good choice with some benefits.
With it, you could set different profiles to its memory that suits when you need the tactile vibrations to be reduced/quieter. Basically giving you more control over how your units will operate the tactile not just only reducing general volume control.
Buttkickers/Tactile
For the seat I would buy the LFE full-size model over the Advance model. It's only $40 more but it can perform much better with the lowest frequencies. I would point out that it's not just about differences in wattages. I've yet to find anyone, not impressed by one and for under 50Hz performance it is the best choice without doubt.
For the pedals, that's a harder decision.....
I give you a scenario that with one amp allows you to get an impression for 3 possible configurations. It depends on how much patience you have or if your bothered to do such but below are options I would be keen to compare if it was my own build.
Inuke DSP 3000
BK LFE
ADX
Go Large
While at the moment I suggest only buying one to test
You could if you wanted, run two full-size LFE on the DSP 3000 using Bridge Mode. I myself have recently as my own aging DSP6000 is currently faulty. This would allow "1 Simvibe EM" group of effects be sent to both seat/pedals units for identical effects and powered by the one amp.
Big Seat / Small Pedals
At the other end of the spectrum, you may find an ADX is plenty in the pedals and just go with 2x Simvibe EM using their own effects and settings with ADX in pedals and LFE in seat. Again the inuke DSP3000 has you covered.
Best Possible Performance / Dual Units Vs 1
This my own preference based on my own testing in what I refer to "Dual Role"
It could be applied to both seat and pedals for the best potential performance you could get but then yes it does go into more money if wanting it in both seat/pedals requiring 1x inuke dsp 1000 with 2x ADX and 1x inuke dsp 3000 with 2x LFE. My advice is to test it in the seat compared to the above options to determine your own preference.
Testing / Comparing in seat only
Requires both the LFE & ADX attached to the seat but the two units will be operating together as one. This splits the workload of multiple effects over each unit and enables greater fine tuning to not only their performance abilities but also your own preference. It does require using some of the inuke dsp features but is not hard to configure a crossover and apply any boost/cut or equalisation of any frequencies (to either unit bear in mind) that you may wish to fine tune. Please keep in mind once configuration is done and you're happy, you simply save the profile on the amps. This may sound more complicated but it's not that much work or effort at all.
With this type of configuration, you could gain two potential benefits
1st, you will get the best low end performance from the LFE and the best speed or finer detailing by combining both a shaker and a transducer. Each have their own benefits when it comes to tactile immersion. With the inuke dsp you have further possibilities to tweak/tune if you desire to do so.
2nd, if when times require it you can only operate your tactile with just the ADX and have no awkard process to go through. Simply only power the amp for these and load a different profile if you want to use a different one.
Vibrations
Last point, the vibration factor will be higher/stronger when wattage is higher.
With decent isolation being used in more than one application really a unit like the ADX should not be a problem for you. Its the kicker models that may be more of the issue depending on how good your isolation turns out to be just how much wattage you can push to using without annoying others.
I do not have a great deal of personal on hands experience with various sound deadening or antivibration materials but have helped others that have implemented such with isolators and other solutions.
Last edited:
@Mr Latte
I am specifically concerned about the ability to "turn the volume down" (if that's the right terminology for tactile?).
Without knowing.. I thought that for the bigger piston in the LFE to be moving at all, means it will create lots of vibration (so therefore no ability to "turn the volume down" relative to smaller units)
Not concerned about the small price difference or the additional power/amp required.
Thanks again
Matty
I am specifically concerned about the ability to "turn the volume down" (if that's the right terminology for tactile?).
Without knowing.. I thought that for the bigger piston in the LFE to be moving at all, means it will create lots of vibration (so therefore no ability to "turn the volume down" relative to smaller units)
Not concerned about the small price difference or the additional power/amp required.
Thanks again
Matty
Mr Latte
Premium
- 5,044
- N Ireland
Matty, put it this way with the recommendation of whats above and combined with the inuke dsp I believe you have the best chance of being able to find a level/setting of control that you can still feel but it not exceed the level you need to keep below. I can guide you through what to try at such time but the only way to know is to try.
I do however use my own sometimes at night with wife/daughter in bed in their own rooms at reduced levels.
If you did go for the dual configuration option like I stated you also have the ability to use only the ADX and still even control its output much greater than a standard amp can.
Simvibe for instance gives control of what Hz you use in effects (big/sml tone generation), also their sensitivity of activity and volume output. It does not however allow you to determine how strong individual Hz are going to be within that tone range (big/sml) compared to others. Nor does it currently offer adjustable crossover function that easily lets you adjust what Hz will be amplified, these are benefits of the inuke dsp but not hard to configure at all.
Really, the only way to know is to try and test, by having an ADX and LFE to do such tests with you have pretty much both ends of the spectrum. If you had to return the LFE then you could do so and try an Advance and if that too was just beyond what you can utilise then really at least you know and have discovered what you can use.
The alternative is play it safe, buy an inuke DSP 1000 instead and 2 ADX over minilfe as they will be quieter/less powerful and not have the piston bottoming issue.
Much can be learned here for others with your own progress but it depends on what you want to do and how prepared you are to try or discover solutions as well. With a better implemented isolation solution then you have the ability to use more tactile energy. That is why I first stated considering a tactile type base platform.
Its your call friend in what you want to do...
I do however use my own sometimes at night with wife/daughter in bed in their own rooms at reduced levels.
If you did go for the dual configuration option like I stated you also have the ability to use only the ADX and still even control its output much greater than a standard amp can.
Simvibe for instance gives control of what Hz you use in effects (big/sml tone generation), also their sensitivity of activity and volume output. It does not however allow you to determine how strong individual Hz are going to be within that tone range (big/sml) compared to others. Nor does it currently offer adjustable crossover function that easily lets you adjust what Hz will be amplified, these are benefits of the inuke dsp but not hard to configure at all.
Really, the only way to know is to try and test, by having an ADX and LFE to do such tests with you have pretty much both ends of the spectrum. If you had to return the LFE then you could do so and try an Advance and if that too was just beyond what you can utilise then really at least you know and have discovered what you can use.
The alternative is play it safe, buy an inuke DSP 1000 instead and 2 ADX over minilfe as they will be quieter/less powerful and not have the piston bottoming issue.
Much can be learned here for others with your own progress but it depends on what you want to do and how prepared you are to try or discover solutions as well. With a better implemented isolation solution then you have the ability to use more tactile energy. That is why I first stated considering a tactile type base platform.
Its your call friend in what you want to do...
Last edited:
- 1,166
- The Netherlands
- HoiHman
- HoiHman
Don't worry Matty,
I can race with 4 mini LFE in chassismode with pretty good tactile feedback when the family is sleeping upstairs.
In my opinion the mini LFE's can be regulated quite good with the output volume, making them pretty quiet.
I have 2 different profiles for every car/game: Normal and silent. In the silent mode i basically have turned down the roadbumps of the accuforce and reduced that max volume of the mini lfe's in chassismode. Everything can be done in SC4 without having to touch the amps.
Mr Latte
Premium
- 5,044
- N Ireland
Yes nothing wrong with having different profiles in Simvibe saved neither. Of course if you get an inuke dsp amp you have the choice of what to do/use.
Here is the difference...
The inuke dsp amps will give not only more but simplier control of individual Hz and their individual strengths compared to just a general volume intensity decrease.
Using PEQ and CROSSOVER control should not be underestimated for this particular situation. It is easily possible with the inuke/dsp to address the Hz output. This will vary and depending on how a users own cockpit characterstics from it's construction and materials used may reverberate with different frequencies and intensity.
For Matty, you will discover this yourself with simple test tone audio sweeps and while it may seem confusing now, its not when you feel whats going on with different frequencies.
@HoiHman to do something even partially like this only in Simvibe would require a profile with each and every effect individually configured to have reduced big/sml Hz values and also lower volumes per effect. Correct me if I am wrong by all means.
Even then you cant do this below in Simvibe.
Basically its much easier and more benefical to alter the source output this way than to alter the source itself.
Simvibe setting as normal no changes / Inuke dsp profile (make/save) in under a minute
Illustration 1:
10-39Hz -12dB
40-49Hz -4dB
50-69Hz -8dB
70-79Hz -3dB
80-120Hz -1dB
Illustration 2 (crossover control restricting the used frequency range)
Simvibe setting as normal no changes / Inuke dsp profile (make/save) in under a minute
Eg: 35Hz - 80Hz usage only.
35-54Hz -4dB
55-64Hz -6dB
65-80Hz -3dB
In either case alter volume to required level and use whatever Hz you want to individually change to reduce the worst vibrations from happening.
Just part of my own testing and trials.
Last edited:
Mr Latte
Premium
- 5,044
- N Ireland
Hey, hope your well and putting some ideas together.
Might be worth seeing if any Black Friday deals appear with Buttkicker or Inuke?
Understand your concern regards the vibration noise, this is why it makes sense to compare some different units and take advantage of the return policy Parts Express or anywhere else may offer.
Example to consider.
Its posible to have large floor standing speakers with bigger bass drivers and still enjoy them with low volumes just like compared to a bookshelf speaker. The quality of bass and mid-range should be improved over the smaller speaker at similar volumes, both may appear to sound as loud, even if one has better delivery of the frequencies.
This should be similar with tactile and a bigger/smaller unit. Amplitude increased will increase the vibrations of course but as I tried to point out, you also have control of (individual frequencies) with the inuke dsp not just volume/amplitude.
Take into account also that its not always the lowest Hz than can reverberate or cause the loudest vibrations. If you want a simple test then try a music app on a tablet or phone that has an EQ feature. Mess around with the volume, then try messing around reducing frequency bands on the EQ.
The principle here for your tactile is the same, the main difference with a PEQ (on the inuke dsp) is that it allows you to set the individual Hz (you want to adjust) and is not a fixed frequency on a slider like a normal EQ has eg 63Hz 80Hz 100Hz.
Spent some time looking for you, some old saved links I had.
I believe these are the same thing but look at the prices....
2.5 Inch Isolator here
Clark T100 Isolator here
Professional solutions Mason Industries good info on product PDF
Neoprene & Spring
Mult Layer Isolation?
I will be starting soon to work on updating my own build with improvements it needs.
For my own seat I am considering 3x metal plates in a top/middle/bottom, sandwiching two isolators in between. I will have 2 sets of these isolators per side to support the seat, so a total of 8x Ti 300 on my seat section.
2x Ti 300 isolators will be sandwiched between the top/bottom and the middle plate. Then a MDF base board cut to size. Antivibration material 3-4mm thick can also be applied to the metal plates and MDF board as well for further dampening. Below the base board I will then have multiple Ti 100 isolators spread across the bottom supporting the build and these finally on rubber floor tiles which are on the rooms wooden floor.
Here is a mockup:
This is not the plates or wood that will be used just to give an idea or multiple layer isolation.
Blue = Floor / Green = Cockpit Base Floor / Red = Seat Height
Blue-Red = 6" Green-Red = 4"
The BK LFE will hang from the chrome tubing/clamps I use for the main frame of the cockpit.
So I may as well use this height required as they are going to be bolted directly to the seats internal sub-frame. As you can see it is resting here on a 1" high isolator just for now, so will hang from the seat and be approx 1" from the ground or base floor.
This is an extreme example. Ti 300 may not be needed in your case but I think the multi- layer approach is one to consider. This example is approx 6" from wooden floor to Buttkicker feet and underside of what will be the seat frame.
I can easily have additional chrome side structure to cover or hide this or use side walls. It looks taller here in reality to what it is.
Your own build
As your not wanting the whole cockpit rest on a 4" high base then consider having the isolation within the build. It already has big deep sides, it would possible to widen the floor structure of your build and have a multi-layer approach hidden behind them using whatever isolators you want to use working from the bottom or a base floor. Basically, your isolation or seat support does not need to start from the top of your side frames and doing so will help you get the seat to the height similar to what it is now. With a revised support structure and still maintaining those nice 80/20 side walls I think such is possible and still to make it look good.
Just needs some creativity...
Might be worth seeing if any Black Friday deals appear with Buttkicker or Inuke?
Understand your concern regards the vibration noise, this is why it makes sense to compare some different units and take advantage of the return policy Parts Express or anywhere else may offer.
Example to consider.
Its posible to have large floor standing speakers with bigger bass drivers and still enjoy them with low volumes just like compared to a bookshelf speaker. The quality of bass and mid-range should be improved over the smaller speaker at similar volumes, both may appear to sound as loud, even if one has better delivery of the frequencies.
This should be similar with tactile and a bigger/smaller unit. Amplitude increased will increase the vibrations of course but as I tried to point out, you also have control of (individual frequencies) with the inuke dsp not just volume/amplitude.
Take into account also that its not always the lowest Hz than can reverberate or cause the loudest vibrations. If you want a simple test then try a music app on a tablet or phone that has an EQ feature. Mess around with the volume, then try messing around reducing frequency bands on the EQ.
The principle here for your tactile is the same, the main difference with a PEQ (on the inuke dsp) is that it allows you to set the individual Hz (you want to adjust) and is not a fixed frequency on a slider like a normal EQ has eg 63Hz 80Hz 100Hz.
Spent some time looking for you, some old saved links I had.
I believe these are the same thing but look at the prices....
2.5 Inch Isolator here
Clark T100 Isolator here
Professional solutions Mason Industries good info on product PDF
Neoprene & Spring
Mult Layer Isolation?
I will be starting soon to work on updating my own build with improvements it needs.
For my own seat I am considering 3x metal plates in a top/middle/bottom, sandwiching two isolators in between. I will have 2 sets of these isolators per side to support the seat, so a total of 8x Ti 300 on my seat section.
2x Ti 300 isolators will be sandwiched between the top/bottom and the middle plate. Then a MDF base board cut to size. Antivibration material 3-4mm thick can also be applied to the metal plates and MDF board as well for further dampening. Below the base board I will then have multiple Ti 100 isolators spread across the bottom supporting the build and these finally on rubber floor tiles which are on the rooms wooden floor.
Here is a mockup:
This is not the plates or wood that will be used just to give an idea or multiple layer isolation.
Blue = Floor / Green = Cockpit Base Floor / Red = Seat Height
Blue-Red = 6" Green-Red = 4"
The BK LFE will hang from the chrome tubing/clamps I use for the main frame of the cockpit.
So I may as well use this height required as they are going to be bolted directly to the seats internal sub-frame. As you can see it is resting here on a 1" high isolator just for now, so will hang from the seat and be approx 1" from the ground or base floor.
This is an extreme example. Ti 300 may not be needed in your case but I think the multi- layer approach is one to consider. This example is approx 6" from wooden floor to Buttkicker feet and underside of what will be the seat frame.
I can easily have additional chrome side structure to cover or hide this or use side walls. It looks taller here in reality to what it is.
Your own build
As your not wanting the whole cockpit rest on a 4" high base then consider having the isolation within the build. It already has big deep sides, it would possible to widen the floor structure of your build and have a multi-layer approach hidden behind them using whatever isolators you want to use working from the bottom or a base floor. Basically, your isolation or seat support does not need to start from the top of your side frames and doing so will help you get the seat to the height similar to what it is now. With a revised support structure and still maintaining those nice 80/20 side walls I think such is possible and still to make it look good.
Just needs some creativity...
Last edited:
Mr Latte
Premium
- 5,044
- N Ireland
@matt33w @HoiHman
Tested for over 3 hours on looking into this for you gentlemen.
I can confirm this makes my hard hitting LFE units feel more like a $10 Dayton Puc and making very little vibration levels.
So it is easily possible to find a balance of impact/power and vibrational output caused by setting different values for the Parametric Control the inuke dsp models have. A larger unit like the Advance/LFE can always produce low based Hz far below the mainstream/models as previously highlighted.
Your concerns that bigger more powerful units will always be louder can be controlled. Your DD wheel even with low settings could have much more torque than a G29, yet the G29 could be at a higher FFB setting, do you get my drift?
Testing 14 effects all at normal/max output controlled with 8 simple, manually applied filters.
I then can load this profile or adjust it via the inuke dsp software in evenings if necessary.
Here is an example of one effect "Road Bumps"
Lets alter those frequencies, shall we?
14 effects, no problem, want to control some additional frequencies...
Also reduced volume @-2dB (barely feel anything) even with the amp at 3/4 volume output. It is all fully controllable as is the Crossover of what Hz the inuke will power coming from Simvibe (I like to use from under 20Hz to 50Hz only for my LFE units) containing the strongest or most bass frequencies in this example.
For normal or full usage of the LFE.
This example highlights a crossover from under 20Hz - 150Hz being applied.
(All frequencies that Simvibe generally uses)
Here is a real-time capture of the (monitoring hardware/software I use) to highlight the frequencies active, notice as often in Simvibe it will use down to 5Hz but if you have a mid-range model then really it will peak @ 40Hz and you will miss or feel very little below 20Hz. So only the more expensive mid or higher end models will properly deliver those frequencies.
I often tend to complicate matters (yip that's me) being a bit of a techie but this is as simple as I can highlight your issue/concerns and the benefits of the higher end tactile/Buttkicker products.
The better your isolation is within the build then the louder/stronger you will be able to operate things without major vibration issues.
Wish you well in future decisions and with your excellent looking rig.
Tested for over 3 hours on looking into this for you gentlemen.
I can confirm this makes my hard hitting LFE units feel more like a $10 Dayton Puc and making very little vibration levels.
So it is easily possible to find a balance of impact/power and vibrational output caused by setting different values for the Parametric Control the inuke dsp models have. A larger unit like the Advance/LFE can always produce low based Hz far below the mainstream/models as previously highlighted.
Your concerns that bigger more powerful units will always be louder can be controlled. Your DD wheel even with low settings could have much more torque than a G29, yet the G29 could be at a higher FFB setting, do you get my drift?
Testing 14 effects all at normal/max output controlled with 8 simple, manually applied filters.
I then can load this profile or adjust it via the inuke dsp software in evenings if necessary.
Here is an example of one effect "Road Bumps"
Lets alter those frequencies, shall we?
14 effects, no problem, want to control some additional frequencies...
Also reduced volume @-2dB (barely feel anything) even with the amp at 3/4 volume output. It is all fully controllable as is the Crossover of what Hz the inuke will power coming from Simvibe (I like to use from under 20Hz to 50Hz only for my LFE units) containing the strongest or most bass frequencies in this example.
For normal or full usage of the LFE.
This example highlights a crossover from under 20Hz - 150Hz being applied.
(All frequencies that Simvibe generally uses)
Here is a real-time capture of the (monitoring hardware/software I use) to highlight the frequencies active, notice as often in Simvibe it will use down to 5Hz but if you have a mid-range model then really it will peak @ 40Hz and you will miss or feel very little below 20Hz. So only the more expensive mid or higher end models will properly deliver those frequencies.
I often tend to complicate matters (yip that's me) being a bit of a techie but this is as simple as I can highlight your issue/concerns and the benefits of the higher end tactile/Buttkicker products.
The better your isolation is within the build then the louder/stronger you will be able to operate things without major vibration issues.
Wish you well in future decisions and with your excellent looking rig.
Last edited:
Mr Latte
Premium
- 5,044
- N Ireland
This was not a bad setting I found to offer an excellent level of tactile energy but controlled to just as strong as I wanted them to be with little vibration issues. Importantly it still produced a decent low Hz rumble with excellent detailing from curbs etc
Notice the Hz and values as well as dB these can all be set to what you want.
I enjoyed the challenge and doing the tests/research so hope it is benefit to you or others in future.
Still believe you should consider trying a few different models and if you do purchase feel free to come back here with whatever you decided to go for and if you need any other help.
Notice the Hz and values as well as dB these can all be set to what you want.
I enjoyed the challenge and doing the tests/research so hope it is benefit to you or others in future.
Still believe you should consider trying a few different models and if you do purchase feel free to come back here with whatever you decided to go for and if you need any other help.
Last edited:
@Mr Latte @HoiHman
Ok... next part of the build done.
DSP3000
Channel 1: Fullsize LFE (seat)
Channel 2: 2 x ADX in series (1 pedals, 1 seat)
The plan is to run the 2 x ADX across all frequencies (single channel so I can't separate them). Use the LFE to provide low frequencies and impact through what is a seat setup that I dont think will transfer vibration particularly well.
1. Fabricated some steel plates to mount the shakers to.
2. Mount the LFE and rubber to isolate vibration from the rig
3. Same deal.. just for the ADX
4. Mount them and hope like hell the multiple pilot holes all line up!! (working upside down for the shakers had me pretty sure I would get something wrong!)
5. The easy part.. mounting the ADX to the pedals
Did some very brief prelim testing... and it became clear I will need to do some setup involving the decibel adjustments by frequency Mr Latte suggested in the above (which I must admit I didn't understand until just now when seeing how these things respond)
I mainly want great engine RPM feel and my crude initial effort has idle shaking the whole house (feels great, but not conducive to a long and happy marriage) then once in the revs the LFE stops and the ADX almost can't be felt.
I think I need to turn the decibels down at low frequency for the LFE and turn it up for higher frequencies to get the full rev range (and use the increasing volume setting in simvibe).
Not sure about the ADX's yet. Will fight with them once I get a reasonable response from the LFE.
Matty
Ok... next part of the build done.
DSP3000
Channel 1: Fullsize LFE (seat)
Channel 2: 2 x ADX in series (1 pedals, 1 seat)
The plan is to run the 2 x ADX across all frequencies (single channel so I can't separate them). Use the LFE to provide low frequencies and impact through what is a seat setup that I dont think will transfer vibration particularly well.
1. Fabricated some steel plates to mount the shakers to.
2. Mount the LFE and rubber to isolate vibration from the rig
3. Same deal.. just for the ADX
4. Mount them and hope like hell the multiple pilot holes all line up!! (working upside down for the shakers had me pretty sure I would get something wrong!)
5. The easy part.. mounting the ADX to the pedals
Did some very brief prelim testing... and it became clear I will need to do some setup involving the decibel adjustments by frequency Mr Latte suggested in the above (which I must admit I didn't understand until just now when seeing how these things respond)
I mainly want great engine RPM feel and my crude initial effort has idle shaking the whole house (feels great, but not conducive to a long and happy marriage) then once in the revs the LFE stops and the ADX almost can't be felt.
I think I need to turn the decibels down at low frequency for the LFE and turn it up for higher frequencies to get the full rev range (and use the increasing volume setting in simvibe).
Not sure about the ADX's yet. Will fight with them once I get a reasonable response from the LFE.
Matty
Similar threads
