- 11,753
- Marin County
God I love that Peugeot. I might honestly try to get one stateside. I could theoretically register one in Nevada...though it would not be legal in CA without significant added expense. 
HFS's car thread | Nearly-5000-miles update
- Thread starter homeforsummer
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- 27,203
- United Kingdom
Well mine is legal next year and if you twist my arm hard enough maybe you could buy this very oneGod I love that Peugeot. I might honestly try to get one stateside. I could theoretically register one in Nevada...though it would not be legal in CA without significant added expense.
I've mulled the idea of shipping it out to the US to do a road trip (rather than say, buying a car out there to do a trip in) but obviously that's pretty expensive, not least because I'd have to then ship it back again, but then if I didn't have to do that and came back with a bunch of extra money it might make the decision easier I'm fairly sure a large part of me would regret selling it, but then if I did do a trip like that I'm not sure I could top an experience like that in that car anyway, and it'd be fun to see it live on somewhere it was never designed for.
Edit: The only trouble really would be that mine is RHD, and I suspect that makes actual Euro market ones a bit more compelling, but then people go around in RHD JDM stuff now so it's maybe not as unusual as it used to be.
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- 11,753
- Marin County
I can't decide if I like the 205 or 106 better. The 106 has a more tidy design (IMO) but the 205 has more identity. I'd guess that the 106 is built better simply because it's newer and I think the interior is marginally nicer to look at. Looking around to see what's actually available in the US, 205s are surprisingly inexpensive...I don't think they are on anyone's radar here. They weren't part of the Gran Turismo class (I don't think a 205 GTI has ever appeared in a GT title) and Peugeot as a brand is pretty unknown outside of maybe the SF Bay area and parts of New England where they actually sold in decent numbers in the 70s & 80s. But even those were all 504, 505, and 405 Saloon/Sedans/Wagons...never hatchbacks. A EF or EG Chassis Honda Civic is probably as much fun (particular with some form of Vtec engine) better quality, and a whole hell of a lot easier to own in the US...but they feel derivative of European hatches where a 205 or 106 feels like the genuine article...they also have the Honda tuner baggage...How would you compare a R56 Mini or 500 Abarth to your 106? Those seem to be the closest modern vehicles to those old Euro hatches, but I'm not crazy about their nostalgic styling.Well mine is legal next year and if you twist my arm hard enough maybe you could buy this very one
I'm fairly sure a large part of me would regret selling it, but then if I did do a trip like that I'm not sure I could top an experience like that in that car anyway, and it'd be fun to see it live on somewhere it was never designed for.
Edit: The only trouble really would be that mine is RHD, and I suspect that makes actual Euro market ones a bit more compelling, but then people go around in RHD JDM stuff now so it's maybe not as unusual as it used to be.
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- 27,203
- United Kingdom
I think you're right, no 205s in GT games. They've appeared in a few of the rally titles though (there's a 205 in Dirt Rally 2.0), and then obviously the T16s have been in a bunch.
The Civic is an interesting one. I kinda feel those have mostly got the reputation they do from Americans who never had access to anything better. Contemporary reviews over here were kind of... lukewarm. Praise for the VTEC engines but never at risk of winning any tests against anything. They probably feel better now taken out of context of their competition but compared to the Euro stuff at the time they were the ones with fairly prescriptive handling, not much feedback etc.
I've never personally driven an EF or EG (though I have driven a Del Sol which is EG derived) so can't comment specifically, but what I can say is having driven more recent stuff, it's always the French cars in particular that still have a kind of dynamic character that nothing else really gets close to. I did a test a few years back with the FK8 Type R and a Megane RS in, and while the Honda won it, I'd say the Renault actually had the more interesting powertrain and more fluidity to its chassis - and that's something that pretty much tracks all the way back with every hot hatch since the genre existed.
I like to think I can speak without bias but honestly the Mini and Abarth aren't a patch on my Peugeot for the stuff that really matters to me. Both are quicker obviously, and probably benefit from ultimately higher levels of grip, braking ability etc, but for the tactile stuff it's hard to beat the 106.
Mini/Abarth have effectively no steering feel, gearbox could be connected to an electronic box replicating the feel of a transmission, over-servoed brakes, e-throttles taking away a degree of agency from your right foot. Abarth ultimately understeers everywhere (I've not yet tried a Fiat hot hatch that you can properly adjust on the throttle), Mini a bit more expressive but contrived to feel darty.
In contrast, the Peugeot just talks to you all the time. Steering more talkative, and the whole chassis feels energised as soon as you start cornering. Amazingly throttle-adjustable. Steering ratio is slow but I find that makes you consider your inputs more, particularly as you can then adjust your line so profoundly by lifting off. Grip is seriously impressive for 175-section tyres, especially considering I'm not running anything sticky. Again, helps that you can kill understeer stone dead with a bit of a lift. And for something with only ~100hp it's decently quick. Would easily drop a stock NA Miata in a straight line. Probably around corners too.
As I've discovered in the past year they really aren't as flaky as the reputation for French stuff suggests either. Not done any trackdays yet, but drove it hard for extended periods on my French trip back in April, on typical alpine roads. Temperature needle barely moved, brakes didn't go soft, and it settled right back into being a regular supermini in every town and city. I don't think the "Rallye" badge is marketing speak, I think they really did engineer it to handle hard use.
Incidentally, I've driven a 205 GTI too, albeit on a couple of brief (maybe 30 mins combined) occasions. Feels broadly similar to the 106 unsurprisingly. 1.9 GTI doesn't feel as quick relative to the Rallye as you'd expect but there's a bit more there. Steering is a little quicker, but maybe a shade less tactile. Feels like (and is) a physically bigger car. Better (lower) driving position, but doesn't feel as well-built (the 106 is weirdly good in this respect - far fewer rattles than the R50 Mini I tested it against a few years back!)
I'm kinda talking myself out of ever selling it
Every time I drive it, I remember why I like it, and I also instantly feel so much more at ease than in the Mazda, as there's something intangible about it being so much simpler mechanically, and knowing I can drive it so much harder on the road.
- 27,203
- United Kingdom
Fleet update
Didn't realise it'd been quite so long since I updated this, so maybe it's time to fill in a few gaps from the past most-of-a-year. Not that there's a lot to fill in as not a great deal has actually changed.
Mazda first. It's been in storage since late July, but its MOT is due soon, so it'll be out again in a couple of weeks for that. It's nominally fine since getting the semi-resto done and generally drives nicely enough, but it still has a running issue that needs fixing before I can properly enjoy it. Realistically it needs a bit more money spending on it in the near future to be the car it should be - probably new brakes, new tyres, new bushes, and I'd like to upgrade the cooling system for peace of mind. Obviously because this will involve spending a fair bit of money I'm not in the world's greatest rush, but I still want to actually do stuff with this car so that'll all need to happen first.
Peugeot. Same it's always been. Haven't driven it as much this year as last (no road trips or anything), but still put maybe 1500 miles on it just bopping about. Still great fun. Annual service and its MOT are also coming up soon. Still got one or two plans for this car too but the last year has been... busy, due to things like redundancies and the ebb and flow of freelance work, which is one reason I didn't use it as much this year - I was hoping to do a few sprints and hill climbs but other stuff took priority, so maybe they're a next-year thing now.
Excuse the different angle of the Smart, different road, different purpose and all that. Still doing daily driver duties, have probably done 6000-ish miles in the past year (compared to 10k or so in its first year). Average economy is ticking over at about 72mpg imperial (60mpg US, 3.9L/100km).
Just passed its MOT, so this one will get a basic service soon. And then when I get around to it, I'll finally be selling it, as I fancy a change. It does the job, but some of its more obvious deficiencies (low performance, easily affected by crosswinds) are starting to grate after a couple of years, and the continually worsening state of UK roads means the stiff suspension is really wearing thin too.
Not sure what'll be replacing it yet. I have the world's longest shortlist covering all manner of things many of which are completely unrelated to each other, but to be very general most of the choices can be categorised as either:
- "Small and cheap" Mostly A- and B-segment cars that should do 50-60mpg without much effort and cost pennies to maintain, but I'm allergic to "obvious" choices so no VW Ups, Toyota Aygos etc.
- "Small and fun" I'd previously ruled out getting anything too hot-hatchy because I have the Peugeot, but because I try and avoid driving the Peugeot in bad weather, on salty roads, or doing dreary motorway trips in it, then maybe there are a few 00s-era hatches with things like ABS and power steering and air-con that fit the bill and might be fun for the odd trackday. Got a few ideas here...
- "Coupes" I do like a pointlessly impractical 2-seater or 2+2 and there are a number of again 00s-era cars of varying levels of comfort, performance and economy that I'm considering here.
- "Barges" One of my ideas is to go in completely the opposite direction from the Smart and get something that's big and rides well. Still automatic for maximum waft, probably diesel to try and at least get semi-decent economy, though a few ideas in the list are petrol.
- "The other stuff" Anything that catches my eye that doesn't fit into the above descriptions. A motley collection of things I find kinda interesting and may not be completely sensible. I'm not an SUV person but there are a few of those on my eBay watchlist, for instance. But also a few daft impractical things that would probably be even less relaxing than the Smart.
So if I can find the time I'll try and shift the Smart in the next few months and get properly shopping. Something from small & fun/coupes/barges is probably most likely as they're ultimately most sensible (and partly because after the Smart and spending so much time with the Peugeot I really need to break away from something small/slow/tinny for my own sanity...)
- 27,203
- United Kingdom
You may be unsurprised to learn the CR-Z is definitely on the "coupes" shortlist. I've considered them several times in the past. May see if I can borrow the one Honda UK owns to see what it's like to live with for a week or so when I've got a few journeys to do.
The future classic thing doesn't concern me too much as I'm unlikely to keep anything I get for more than a year or two, and I can't see CR-Z values changing much here in that time, though I think most stuff I'm considering is probably at the bottom of its depreciation curve, so most of the cars will probably be worth more or less the same when I come to sell it.
- 11,753
- Marin County
Are there any FTOs left in UK? Always thought those were neat, and we never got them stateside, but Mitsubishi's of that age don't seem to be around anymore.
INEEDNAWZZZ
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- 1,828
- Lincoln
- EGGSBAWCKS
- DigitalLuke64DD
They used to be everywhere, but yeah, they got to the banger (beater) price point in the late 2000s and most weren't cared for particularly well and either scrapped or rusted away by now.
- 27,203
- United Kingdom
Yeah as @INEEDNAWZZZ says they've just about disappeared. A lot were treated as most people treat cheap cars, and most of the rest seem to attract people whose idea of tuning is still stuck in the early 2000s, but with even less taste.
I wouldn't get one as a daily (any more - it was certainly a consideration 15 years ago!) but I'd still actually consider one as a fun car at some point as I do love the way they look. In standard form anyway, or with a tasteful set of wheels...
- 27,203
- United Kingdom
Test drove this one yeeeeears ago.
Was "only" an auto, and a GR Sports Package rather than a GPX (so had the GPX styling but the non-MIVEC engine), but it still drove really nicely. From what I recall it had a firm but not uncomfortable ride, fairly precise steering, and the engine felt so smooth. Even the auto box felt pretty good - there was good throttle response and it wasn't as slushy as you'd expect for the era. The other thing that's difficult to appreciate without driving one is how upright and wraparound the windscreen feels, it's a bit like an older Saab or an R50 Mini or similar, and that alone made it feel quite exotic.
I didn't buy this one in the end as it was showing signs of a headgasket being on the way out, and there was no way I could deal with the expense of fixing stuff like that at the time.
- 27,203
- United Kingdom
Smart out, MX-5 in
Made a bit of a change recently:
I finally got tired with the Smart, and replaced it with an NC MX-5.
Well, there's a little more to it than that. I actually got tired of the Smart probably a year or more ago, but it was one of those cars that was so useful, because it used so little fuel, that I wasn't in a particular rush to get rid of it. Then I took it for a service earlier in the year and discovered it had some more expensive work coming up, so decided to cut my losses before it started costing a big chunk more money. Offloaded it on one of those "we buy your car"-type services. Obviously didn't get a lot of money for it, but it means I've avoided spending more money on it, I've avoided lumbering a private buyer with it (directly at least), and it was easier than the faff of advertising it and dealing with various enquiries.
In summary, the Smart did the job I needed it to do, but after a brief period of finding it quite neat, and doing fun stuff like taking it to the Nurburgring, it became just a tool that irritated me as much as the benefits I got from it: the ride quality especially really started getting on my nerves, and the low performance began wearing thin. Also, other road users really treat small cars like dirt.
So an NC then. Why?
Partly because driving is getting pretty expensive and miserable here in the UK. Fuel, tax, insurance etc, combined with the worsening quality of our roads, traffic, poor weather etc.
So buying an MX-5 that costs more to run, still has to deal with crap roads and traffic, and probably can't put the top down as often as I'd like seems like a silly idea. But my logic is that if I'm going to have to deal with driving getting worse, I may as well do it in a car I like and that can make use of the rare times driving might be fun. Once in a blue moon when the traffic clears or the sun comes out, it'll at least remind me why I like cars to begin with.
There's an ulterior motive too, which is that I'm increasingly fed up with the general disinterest of rotary specialists in this country to do their jobs, which is making getting the RX-7 to 100% really drag on, so at least now I have something well-balanced and RWD that I can have a bit of fun with where I should be using the RX-7. Ultimately I still want to do road trips and track days and stuff in the RX-7 but in the meantime I can do them in this and not miss out too much.
Oh, and also NCs are fantastic value right now, partly I think due to being that age where they're neither modern nor a classic, but partly because people can be a bit sniffy about them still, which I increasingly think they don't deserve. The NA is still my favourite generation, but the experience of this really isn't so far away, but you also get a much stiffer structure, more performance, more space, and in the case of this one, a folding hardtop which is somewhat more secure.
- 23,871
- It/It
- GTP_TheCracker
Looks great 👍
Is that the NC1 or NC2? - i forget what the difference was.
Is that the NC1 or NC2? - i forget what the difference was.
- 27,203
- United Kingdom
Thanks! And yeah it's black. I tend to prefer colours to non-colours but you take what you can get with a used car, and I have to say it does look good in black.
It's the 2-litre, so around 160hp or so, six-speed manual and LSD as standard.
This one's a very late NC1, it's a 2009 which is the year the NC2 was introduced, so I guess this was shifted just before the NC2 orders opened. Not much difference in a side view like that but the NC2 got the smiley Mazda grille of the era, different tail lights, some internal engine revisions which resulted in a slightly higher redline, and a few tweaks underneath which I can't immediately recall. I prefer the look of the NC1 but the NC2 is allegedly better to drive. Not tried them back to back so can't confirm!
- 27,203
- United Kingdom
- 27,203
- United Kingdom
- 27,203
- United Kingdom
Nearly-5000-miles update
Didn't realise I'd not mentioned the NC any more after the new-car post, so thought I'd change that.
As the title above suggests, I'm now just shy of 5000 miles, in about four months plus a week or two. In other words I'm getting pretty good use from it considering I don't have a daily commute.
A decent-sized chunk of that came from a trip to the Spa 6hrs back in May, but I've found myself basically not really thinking twice about using it for anything and everything. Frankly, it's an absolute pleasure, and while I know that's not really a surprise for an MX-5, as these cars kinda feel like home for me, I'm pleased how easily I've settled into using it.
Possibly the most interesting comparison is with the ND1 RF I ran as a long-termer in around 2017:
While it's obviously not a "back to back" comparison, I think the NC stands up very well indeed. It fixes two reservations I had with the ND, which is that the ND1's steering was light on feedback, and that I found the seats very uncomfortable - the NC's steering is excellent by modern standards, and in several long trips I've not had back ache from the seats, even if they could stand to be even more comfortable.
The ND does feel a bit lighter and nimbler than the NC, but there's really not much in it there either, and the NC doesn't flop around as much in corners. Balance feels more natural too in the NC. I have a suspicion they improved the NC1 a lot before the NC2 even arrived as there's no way this is the same car that was originally quite heavily criticised when it was new - my press colleagues can't have missed the mark by that much.
I'm happy enough with the NC's performance too though I'm reminded that the MX-5 has never really had a truly great engine. The ND2 has got closest from the factory but NAs and NBs have always been a little harsh, and the 2-litre in the NC is pretty industrial too. It doesn't seem to be burning oil at least, which is a bit of a thing with the MZR.
Oh, and while it's not priority number one for this car, and I was prepared for the fact it'd cost more to run than the Smart, I'm averaging about 40mpg (~33mpg US, 7L/100km) which is better than I was anticipating - I'd have been happy with mid 30s.
Obelisk
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- RMedia_Obelisk
Saw you mention your NC in my thread and had to look for myself. Gorgeous NC1 you've got here. I'm in agreement that the NCs genuinely feel really good as cars, even if they tend to be the butt of many jokes in the Miata community. I would recommend Flyin Miata sway bars on their recommended settings if you're planning on throwing any money into it. They really smooth out the ride! Other than that, it looks great. I haven't got quite the MPG you have, but I suppose that's a me problem.
- 27,203
- United Kingdom
I may start tweaking it at some point but as it's the daily driver at the mo and I have two other toys, for the time being it's all maintenance rather than modification.
I was surprised by the economy but it's been pretty consistent now over 5000 miles so it apparently isn't just a rounding error from the first few tanks. I do have a bit of fun with it, but also a lot of time is just spent cruising at typical UK speeds, which invariably means relatively slowly which is decent for economy. And I'm naturally a fairly economical driver anyway, I've always got probably above average from most cars I've owned. But for perspective, my two NAs got 34 and 33mpg UK, which is 28 and 27 mpg US, so way less than the ND's doing - shows just how far cars have come on that they can make another 50-odd horsepower and be way more economical.
While I love the NA, I also knew even before buying an NC from previous drives that the NC just feels that much more serious out of the box. It's the modernity of it, more power, stiffer chassis, better body control, less roll even in stock form. It's got higher limits than an NA or NB but it's that much more controlled I think it's easier to reach them. Feels like you can get the thing up on its tiptoes with so much more confidence than an NA or NB, or even an ND.
