Honda NSX "NA Is BEST!"

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NA Is Best!
TSUKUBA Japan- It's a perfect day outside, bearly any wind, temperature is hovering around 70 degrees farenheight. The silence is broken with tthe sudden turn of the key from the Spoon Sports NSX, this car delivers a whopping 410bhp from its 3.o Litre V-6 powerplant. No forced induction here, just pure NA brute force. This is actually a customer car, so it's not fully race prepped, although the engine definatly sounds like it. It features a Stage 2 engine up grade, Port and Polished heads, and a balanced crank. Suspension upgrades include Spoon's Semi-Racing Kit, which the setup can be read in the Spec box. Rolling stock includes Spoon's famous SW388 wheels, and some sticky S2 rubber. Stopping is controlled by Project Mu calipers and brake pads, while some stainless steel brake lines were added as well. Visually, this car is a sleeper, besides the rims and tyres, this car has a completly stock body. However, the bonnet and boot lids are swapped for painted Carbon-fibre units, as are the front fenders. At the track, this car manged to crack off a 58.365 second lap, and we can only image what Ichisima-san could do if this was a pure racecar.....




The Good
Style and power. This car displays immense style from its sleeper like look, but can sure pack a punch when let loose on a racetrack.

The bad
Understeer, while theres little of it, it still hampers the cars overall feel.


Specs:
Engine
3.o Litre Naturally Aspirated DOHC V6
Power
410bhp
Suspension Settings(F/R)
Spring Rate:11.0/9.0
Ride Height: 100/100
Camber:1.5/1.0
Stabilizers:4/4

Sorry that it looks like a BESTuners report, but I liked the style, and knew I wasn't good enough to get in (plus, theres no more sports). So. if the mods want me to remove this, go right ahead.
 
Hahaha! Maybe you could be the founder of FIRE EMBLEM62uners or summat? :lol:

Add the full spec list and I dont see what the problem is :)
 
Well, the pics are good, spectacular if they're unedited.

The review is ok, the first paragraph looks like it's from a newspaper, and that's creative, but the pros and cons need to be a LOT more in depth. It definitely doesn't convince me to buy it.

We also had tryouts going on a week or so ago, and you could've given us your report for a tryout. But, that's over.

I'm just judging it on BESTuners standards.

And this probably belongs in the Race Reports forum.
 
Yeah, they are unedited pics, thanks, I'll remmeber to add indepth pros/cons and put it in race reports then, thanks.
 
some more cons, imo.

the engine doesn't have a lot of potential.

even the latest models don't reach 500 hp.

considering the Z06 corvette can match it in performance stock-to-stock, this isn't good news for Honda's top sports car.

on the bright side it's not as necessary to tune the car for stability and the word is they run with italian supercars on a track. however, the engine overheated on that same race.
 
dudejo
some more cons, imo.

the engine doesn't have a lot of potential.

even the latest models don't reach 500 hp.

considering the Z06 corvette can match it in performance stock-to-stock, this isn't good news for Honda's top sports car.

on the bright side it's not as necessary to tune the car for stability and the word is they run with italian supercars on a track. however, the engine overheated on that same race.

The engines potential is limited due to the JDM 'gentlemans agreement'. It is designed for response before top-end power. The limits of the agreement also means there has been more chasis development though which is a good thing. This is what allows them to "run with italian supercars" as you say. If you drive the car in the game - in comparison against any equally powered car you will see it is a joy to drive. Less power does not mean less fun! (In life and in the game)

Also the Corvette does not match it in performance at all on track (in real life) even though the NSX chasis is a 15 year old design! As for overheating, ANY car will do this if you run it on a track in stock trim - meaning, if equipped with regular road use in mind where the engine is not continually kept at high RPM.
 
zefff
Also the Corvette does not match it in performance at all on track

http://www.gmlsxs.org/showthread.php?t=1330&highlight=nurburgring

'nuff said

as for overheating (again), the italians didn't overheat. the cars may be ridiculously overpriced but at least the engines can handle track abuse.

what good is a sports car if it can't even run all-out without breaking down? in the end, all you're left with is a regular street car with two seats and virtually no storage space and an inability to go on barely uneven roads.
 
To dude,
I say you watch the Best Motoring DVD with the JDM vs the Word race, witht the NSX, Skyline GT-R, EVO VII, 360 Modena, Porsche 911 Turbo, and Corvette Z51, then start talkin.
 
i heard a lot of things about best motoring and most of them weren't good so i don't consider it completely trustworthy.

most of them say the races are rigged.
 
either way, no one 100% agrees on the truthfullness of Best Motoring.

especially since it's a japanese show so odds are the japanese cars will seem better than everyone.

i'd rather trust the link i gave. it's more neutral than best motoring. it's also tested on a track that has more than a bunch of low-speed corners.
 
dudejo

Hahaha!!! That website is hardly a point of reference for facts is it? Anyway is the 'blue devil' a real production car with tunable suspension? You tell me :) ...also how much power is it reputed to have? Jeez, believe it or not there are supercharged and turbo charged NSX's out there, now what BHP are they running? :rolleyes:

dudejo
as for overheating (again), the italians didn't overheat. the cars may be ridiculously overpriced but at least the engines can handle track abuse.

As for overheating (again) :) it can happen to any car...and higher rated parts for cooling an engine don't cost much money either. Over heating does not mean an engine cant handle what its designed to do - it means the ancilliary systems that provide temp control are not up to the task of giving the engine what it needs to function properly. What part was not functioning on the day that the NSX overheated? Do you know? ...I would bet it was a rather cheap and replaceable component.

dudejo
what good is a sports car if it can't even run all-out without breaking down? in the end, all you're left with is a regular street car with two seats and virtually no storage space and an inability to go on barely uneven roads.

All machines have limits and also must be maintained and prepared for (ab)use. If you dont have sympathy for a machine it will fail if you dont consider its limits and keep within them. A stock NSX is not designed for running "all-out" on a track. Something like the last Radical SR which ran 6:55 is designed with this as its single purpose. The Italian exotica you describe is designed to give rich men a glimpse of how the motorsport machines perform with systems, power and handling totally uneccessary for roads and even dangerous in some cases.

As for storage, why would you want storage? How much storage did your Italians have and how are they on the cobbles? :rolleyes: Im done man but if you dont like NSX's just say it! :lol:

edit to add: Dont trust ANY journalism! Bestmotoring is better than Topgear though in truth stakes.
 
zefff
Hahaha!!! That website is hardly a point of reference for facts is it? Anyway is the 'blue devil' a real production car with tunable suspension? You tell me :) ...also how much power is it reputed to have? Jeez, believe it or not there are supercharged and turbo charged NSX's out there, now what BHP are they running? :rolleyes:

the blue devil supposedly makes 600 hp. not quite the 500 of the regular car but the top porsches run V10s with 600 hp themselves. so that explains how the times are so close.

the production C6 Z06 still rapes an NSX though.

i looked around for turbo NSXes and it makes as much power as a stock Z06 engine. you're taking a car that already costs more than a 'vette and youre making it even more expensive (while possibly reducing the reliability) to make it as fast as the Z06 'vette.

zefff
As for overheating (again) :) it can happen to any car...and higher rated parts for cooling an engine don't cost much money either. Over heating does not mean an engine cant handle what its designed to do - it means the ancilliary systems that provide temp control are not up to the task of giving the engine what it needs to function properly. What part was not functioning on the day that the NSX overheated? Do you know? ...I would bet it was a rather cheap and replaceable component.

while it can happen to any car, it happened to the NSX before whatever else it was running with.

as overpriced as the italians are, their engine can at least handle running hard since they have more than 6 cylinders.

also, you don't hear about american sports cars breaking down under pressure do you?

and for part prices, being both a high-end car and japanese, the part will probably cost more than "rather cheap"

zefff
All machines have limits and also must be maintained and prepared for (ab)use. If you dont have sympathy for a machine it will fail if you dont consider its limits and keep within them. A stock NSX is not designed for running "all-out" on a track. Something like the last Radical SR which ran 6:55 is designed with this as its single purpose. The Italian exotica you describe is designed to give rich men a glimpse of how the motorsport machines perform with systems, power and handling totally uneccessary for roads and even dangerous in some cases.

maybe a stock NSX isn't made to run all-out but afaik, only the skyline and supra aren't reputed to break down in races.

while all cars have limits, some are much higher than others. hell, i had an old '91 ford escort that had 300k km on it and the few repairs i had to do on it were never engine-related.

except for the rare times my engine turned off by itself, my engine ran like it had 100km less. it basically ran like an average used engine (not peak performance but still good enough to feel new)

and that's an american daily driver which is supposed to be worse than japan's. i did run my car hard on a few occasions, too.

RX-7s and Lancers are also reputed to need lots of maintenance when run competitively. the latter cancelling your waranty if you run it hard at all.

zefff
As for storage, why would you want storage? How much storage did your Italians have and how are they on the cobbles? :rolleyes: Im done man but if you dont like NSX's just say it! :lol:

what i DID say was what you would be left with if your engine couldn't perform at full potential without the risk of breaking down in one race.

not what others could do better.

zefff
edit to add: Dont trust ANY journalism! Bestmotoring is better than Topgear though in truth stakes.

a TV show that makes exciting looking races at the cost of credibility > all?

i've done my research on Best Motoring ("best motoring" rigged, turned up a few discussion boards on yahoo) and no one agrees 100% on its credibility. the debates are still pretty heated.

i've never watched top gear, though, so i can't comment on that.


the NSX IS a good car. but considering you pay twice the price of a base 'vette for essentially the same overall performance, getting one for competitive use isn't really that encouraging.

the NSX has better cornering but the 'vette will be able to catch up the rest of the time with its extra torque. assuming both drivers are perfectly familiar with their car, it will be up to driver skill.
 
I dont know why Im bothering but here goes! :lol:

dudejo
the blue devil supposedly makes 600 hp. not quite the 500 of the regular car but the top porsches run V10s with 600 hp themselves. so that explains how the times are so close.

the production C6 Z06 still rapes an NSX though.

So you admit your reference to that NBR time was pointless? I dont know why I ask questions because youve not answered one yet. :rolleyes:

dudejo
i looked around for turbo NSXes and it makes as much power as a stock Z06 engine. you're taking a car that already costs more than a 'vette and youre making it even more expensive (while possibly reducing the reliability) to make it as fast as the Z06 'vette.

Okay so we have totally left GT4 behind now eh?...well, power isnt everything and more power does not automatically equal more speed on a track. Also, who cares how much a car costs? They design these products for people who can afford to run them. Just because something is cheaper that does not make it better (and vice versa). If that were the case you would not have raved about your Italian cars would you?

dudejo
as overpriced as the italians are, their engine can at least handle running hard since they have more than 6 cylinders.

You know you made yourself look even less informed with that line right? God alone knows how WRC cars run or how the superbikes make it round more than one lap then eh? :lol:

dudejo
maybe a stock NSX isn't made to run all-out but afaik, only the skyline and supra aren't reputed to break down in races.

while all cars have limits, some are much higher than others. hell, i had an old '91 ford escort that had 300k km on it...and that's an american daily driver which is supposed to be worse than japan's. i did run my car hard on a few occasions, too.

RX-7s and Lancers are also reputed to need lots of maintenance when run competitively. the latter cancelling your waranty if you run it hard at all.

This poor mans thread has been destroyed but anyway, you seem to constantly confuse racecars with roadcars. Do you not realise they are totally different beasts? Some JGTC cars dont even run with the same base engine block of the road equivalent and guess what, the NSX's recirculate exhaust gases! This was my point regarding your squewiff reference to the 'Vette.

More power to your elbow regarding the Escort but please. You ran it hard on a few occassions too? :lol: I just want you to understand what I am getting at with running requirements for parts and stress from environments being different if you are on a road in US, Europe or on a track. They are totally different situations!

What you say about racing RX7's and Evo's is true for any car. What are you saying exactly? What facts are you presenting to me here?

dudejo
i've done my research on Best Motoring ("best motoring" rigged, turned up a few discussion boards on yahoo) and no one agrees 100% on its credibility. the debates are still pretty heated.

i've never watched top gear, though, so i can't comment on that.

the NSX IS a good car. but considering you pay twice the price of a base 'vette for essentially the same overall performance, getting one for competitive use isn't really that encouraging.

the NSX has better cornering but the 'vette will be able to catch up the rest of the time with its extra torque. assuming both drivers are perfectly familiar with their car, it will be up to driver skill.

Hahahahaa! LMAO! Read that back mate and tell me its common sense youve typed!!! Not that I ever said any show was to be followed religeously, but you question journalists yet when GM test their own car and have their own driver report about it - only then is an article to be trusted? :lol: Im done with this, Im going home! You win! NSX's are Japanese-crap! :yuck: :lol:
 
LMAO! I didnt know you were known as 'Mr Corvette'! :lol:

Seriously chap (show me where I attacked you and I'll apologise) I never attacked you, just your lack of objective opinion.

peace.
 
now that i think about it, i could be wrong about the blue devil thing.

the stats are on but after going around a few message boards (i typed "Corvette Z06 7:40" on yahoo), it's apparently just a rumor that the blue devil ran that time. the times for the Z06 hang between 7:40 and 7:43.

and while the lap times place the NSX-R above the base C6 and the CE Z06 (probably one of the last C5s), it's written "best motoring" next to it so i won't jump to conclusions and call it superior in every way. not until people actually agree on its credibility.

btw, i didn't put that link there to talk about the Z06 lap. i put it there to show the lap times at the bottom of the list showing an NSX and a couple of 'vette that aren't the latest model. that matched it.

as for the NSX overheating, it would make sense that it happened if it was against 500+ hp cars now that i think about it more.

it certainly is a good car to stay ahead of those (as pointlessly expensive as they are, they can't be THAT bad) but i figure he'd have to push the engine a lot harder than the other guys had to.

my 6 cylinder comment does seem off the mark but i stand by what i said concerning the RX-7 and Lancer.

the RX-7 is always mentionned as an engine that needs a lot of maintenance compared to most comparable cars and there's no way in hell a turbo I4 that makes 300 hp won't have problems of some sorts. hell, god knows what happened the last time Ford tried that (it didn't make 300 hp but it was called a friggin time bomb).

the impreza isn't poked at as a fragile engine but i guess the boxer config helps it because the car has the same basic performance as a Lancer and produces its power with a turbo 4-cylinder too. if i didn't know any better i'd say they were mechanically clones (yes i do realise this is impossible because they're not affiliated in any way but they're virtually equal in performance).

and i have yet to find any convincing evidence that an NSX is better than a 'vette. the cars both have their own strengths and weaknesses but i just can't see anything that gives one or the other a significant advantage.

on the side, you'd think GT4 would display american cars as understeering boats despite the obvious japanese bias.
 
Okay mate,

Please dont take the tone of my posts as rude. I am just giving my 2pence worth :) I think our overiding problem was the transition from the game and Fire Emblem62's review to (psuedo) real life. You admit that the basis for your negative attitudes towards FE62's NSX settings are rumours from message boards - can you see how this is ambiguous at best and not at all relevant at worst?

RE: RX7 and Lancer (Evolution)

I am bored right now so I will bite...

The RX7 is always mentioned by people who are afraid of its engine. It needs the same amount of attention that you might give to a GTR or NSX etc. Just in different areas - why? Because it does things differently. Yeah so the engine needs rebuilding after 60-90k, so what? Its just the same as giving a major service to any other piston engined Japanese supercar after 60-90k miles. And if you looked at a Ferrari 355 service schedule you would be sickened! A new timing (cam)belt every 3/4000 miles or 6 months IIRC!

The Evo's weakness in the real world is not its engine. The 4g63 is solid and proven! The real weakness of the package is the differentials and maybe the gearbox which aint to hot either. Regarding your earlier mention of voided warranties, that might be due to people launching them hard in street races and destroying the clutch. Its easy to do and a clutch is another consumable part thats easily replaced outside of warranty claims. If your racing on track your warranty is void anyway as the car isnt being used as intended under the conditions of warranty. :)

The Imprezas weakness is cooling. Many, many Imprezas in UK have overheated on long runs with melted pistons resulting due to the configuration of the intercooler and that daft bonnet vent AFAIK. There is a reason its gotten bigger and changed angle over the years. Air was bouncing off the top mounted intercooler instead of being forced in.

Evo and Impreza - They are not equal in performance! Anyway which two cars are you talking about? WRX vs (UK)FQ260? STI vs GSR/RS-II? Type RA/22B/P1 vs RSX/TME/RS Sprint? SPEC-C vz RS/GT? There are a lot of variations in production and they are far from clones IMHO but I can see why you might have that opinion.

RE: "i have yet to find any convincing evidence that an NSX is better than a 'vette. ..."you'd think GT4 would display american cars as understeering boats despite the obvious japanese bias."

'Better' is a state of mind. We all have different criteria I guess. For instance, I think an old (MG) Mini Cooper is 'better' than a new (BMW) one. People might think I am wrong but Ive driven both and had more fun in the old one.

As for the understeering boats comment, have you ever considered how a US automotive company would gain from investing extra cost into giving a US product extra cornering prowess that might never be needed?

Anyway thanks for this interesting discussion...now lets get back to the game eh? ;)

peace
 
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