Horsepower increase/decrease

[Mcloud1]

I have noticed that a glitch in the game is that horsepower in many cars change after you buy them. either it increases or decreases. So, I am creating this topic so people playing GT2 won't get taken advantage of and buy a car that they can't use because it goes over the horsepower limit when you buy it, or is much slower than advertised when bought.

Some I know of that have their horsepower increase/decrease when you buy it is:

Lister Storm 593 -> 591
Toyota GT-one road version 591-> 593
Toyota Starlet (88) 108 -> 99
Renault Clio 164 -> 118

That is all that I can remember. Do you know of any more?

 

[Puke]

I have noticed it too, a long time ago.
But I don't remember which cars.

 

[Gil]

In many cars there is some "leeway" in HP ratings.
You can race a 300 HP car in 295 HP limit races.
Build your car, Keep the actual HP low.
Enter a race, and adjust in the race "garage" You will then find out how much HP you can "overbuild" into your car.

Also, if you take a 591 HP car to a 591 HP limit race you should handily beat the competition.

 

[Orion]

Renault Clio = 171HP down to 108HP, last time I checked, I don't get how you get the power wrong by over 35%.

 

[Mcloud1]

Hmm. I haven't played the game in a while, I am just going by memory, so it may be a little off.

 

[Parnelli Bone]

I have noticed that a glitch in the game is that horsepower in many cars change after you buy them. either it increases or decreases. So, I am creating this topic so people playing GT2 won't get taken advantage of and buy a car that they can't use because it goes over the horsepower limit when you buy it, or is much slower than advertised when bought.

Some I know of that have their horsepower increase/decrease when you buy it is:

Lister Storm 593 -> 591
Toyota GT-one road version 591-> 593
Toyota Starlet (88) 108 -> 99
Renault Clio 164 -> 118

That is all that I can remember. Do you know of any more?

There are many opinions about why this is so. My personal favorite is that the "dealer" who sold you the car either did not know its exact power stats, or he or she outright lied about them.

Some others have said the reason is more flaky: one person programmed the car, and another PD employee added it into the game, not paying full attention to the exact power.

In any event, this all reflects real-life. There are many performance cars from the '60s muscle-car era till even now, and the car-maker deliberately would lie about the true power of their product in an effort to get by government restrictions or insurance. Also, some car-makers quote how much power their cars make at the wheel; rather than straight off the crankshaft. Crankshaft power is always greater than power dynoed from the wheels. 💡

 

[Gil]

There are many opinions about why this is so. My personal favorite is that the "dealer" who sold you the car either did not know its exact power stats, or he or she outright lied about them.

Some others have said the reason is more flaky: one person programmed the car, and another PD employee added it into the game, not paying full attention to the exact power.

In any event, this all reflects real-life. There are many performance cars from the 60's muscle-car era till even now, and the car-maker deliberately would lie about the true power of their product in an effort to get by government restrictions or insurance. Also, some car-makers quote how much power thier cars make at the wheel; rather than straight off the crankshaft. Crankshaft power is always greater than power dynoed from the wheels. 💡

While true in real life, not so much in GT2.
Consider it a programming glitch.
And remember what I said about being able to fudge things if you add HP AFTER you are in the race, via the settings screen.

Also, remember that if you are running the full allowable HP, you should be able to win in all but one of the races.

 

[sucahyo]

That is all that I can remember. Do you know of any more?

I attach car list which has both. Sheet 1 contain car power like shown on dealer, sheet 2 contain power reasearched by GT2 fans . All you have to do is compare.

 

[Orion]

Hmm. I haven't played the game in a while, I am just going by memory, so it may be a little off.

When I said I don't get how you get the power 35% off, I was talking about PD, just wanted to prevent a misunderstanding.

 

[Parnelli Bone]

While true in real life, not so much in GT2.
Consider it a programming glitch..

No way, it's not a glitch! Horsepower stats in GT games are deliberately programmed by humans. A glitch happens when you try and program something but for whatever reason that program has some inherent problems that show up unintentionally. Like, for instance, when you go do a max speed run only to find you have a black mystery car in your garage equipped with several tens of thousands of horsepower. You try and drive it and nothing happens! That is a glitch my friend! 💡

but the hp & torque stats that change from location to location are (for whatever reason) mostly deliberate. To prove what I'm saying, how come when you buy a car from the dealer, it weighs 3,000 pounds. You take it to the garage--it still weighs 3,000 pounds. But that same car (from dealer to garage) all a sudden has let's say 10 horsepower more. Obviously it's because somebody was in charge of programming the stats for that car and PD decided for whatever reason to mess around with the power stats.

I say it's an attempt to inject a bit of the leeway one finds in real-life. You dyno a car on one machine, it'll say you have 500 horsepower. Take it to a different machine, it'll say 505 hp. See?

 

[Parnelli Bone]

I attach car list which has both. Sheet 1 contain car power like shown on dealer, sheet 2 contain power reasearched by GT2 fans . All you have to do is compare.

Hey where do you get this stuff? Interesting....

 

[Mcloud1]

it can get annoying, though. I bought the Toyota GT-one road version to use in a 591 HP race, and after wasting a million on it, I was pretty pissed to learn that it was two over the limit.

 

[Parnelli Bone]

it can get annoying, though. I bought the Toyota GT-one road version to use in a 591 HP race, and after wasting a million on it, I was pretty pissed to learn that it was two over the limit.

Ah dude you don't need a Toyota GT1 to win a 591 hp race! I've used Civics and Misubishi Mirages to win some of these!

 

[Mcloud1]

I know. This was when I was 11 and didn't have lots of skill.

 

[Gil]

No way, it's not a glitch! Horsepower stats in GT games are deliberately programmed by humans. A glitch happens when you try and program something but for whatever reason that program has some inherent problems that show up unintentionally. LIke, for instance, when you go do a max speed run only to find you have a black mystery car in your garage equipped with several tens of thousands of horsepower. You try and drive it and nothing happens! That is a glitch my friend! 💡

but the hp & torque stats that change from location to location are (for whatever reason) mostly deliberate. To prove what i'm saying, how come when you buy a car from the dealer, it weighs 3,000 pounds. You take it to the garage--it still weighs 3,000 pounds. But that same car (from dealer to garage) all a sudden has let's say 10 horsepower more. Obviously it's because somebody was in charge of programming the stats for that car and PD decided for whatever reason to mess around with the power stats.

I say it's an attempt to inject a bit of the leeway one finds in real-life. You dyno a car on one machine, it'll say you have 500 horsepower. Take it to a different machine, it'll say 505 hp. See?

Well, PB my friend, perhaps Gremlin Loose In The Computer Housing was too strong a term for the programming differences in GT2.
However, It is possible once in a race with a 295 HP limit to mod a car up to about 302 HP if you have the parts.
Remember in GT2, there is no oil change, or cars losing HP with extensive use.
So every time you win a certain car it will have the same HP. When you buy an RX-7 it will have x-amount of HP. If you go back to the dealer and buy the same make and model, it will have the same amout of HP as the first one you bought.

And as far as consistency from place to place (garage to track to parts store) GT and GT2 are the best at keeping those stats the same from venue to venue.

It is only from GT3 on that you have to worry about decreases/changes in HP, and "wearing out" cars.

GT2 does do other things like entering a 305 HP GT40 AI car in a 295 HP limit race...

 

[sucahyo]

If we look at the data from GT2 disc:
there is file for performance data shown in dealer
no file for performance data shown in garage, it's calculated based on engine, or any other upgrade that currently being equipped.

If there are difference between data in dealer or garage, it's happen because the data shown in dealer is different from stock car engine data.

two car with the same engine will have the same performance data in garage.

 

[Parnelli Bone]

Well, PB my friend, perhaps Gremlin Loose In The Computer Housing was too strong a term for the programming differences in GT2.
However, It is possible once in a race with a 295 HP limit to mod a car up to about 302 HP if you have the parts.
Remember in GT2, there is no oil change, or cars losing HP with extensive use.
So every time you win a certain car it will have the same HP. When you buy an RX-7 it will have x-amount of HP. If you go back to the dealer and buy the same make and model, it will have the same amout of HP as the first one you bought.

And as far as consistency from place to place (garage to track to parts store) GT and GT2 are the best at keeping those stats the same from venue to venue.

It is only from GT3 on that you have to worry about decreases/changes in HP, and "wearing out" cars.

GT2 does do other things like entering a 305 HP GT40 AI car in a 295 HP limit race...

If we look at the data from GT2 disc:
there is file for performance data shown in dealer
no file for performance data shown in garage, it's calculated based on engine, or any other upgrade that currently being equipped.

If there are difference between data in dealer or garage, it's happen because the data shown in dealer is different from stock car engine data.

two car with the same engine will have the same performance data in garage.

Neither of you seem to get what I'm saying, well, actually Sucahyo kinda gets it. Yes I know you can fudge a car into a horsepower limited race, and the Ai does get a GT40 into the Historic race at Rome (and we can't do this), but I'm not even talking about these discrephencies. Be patient and check out what I'm saying...

You buy a car from the dealer. It says it has (let's say) 276 horsepower.

Now you take it "home" to the garage. Whoh...it really has 290 hp!!!???? Cool!

Now you take it to the race track or the Test track. You have not installed or changed a single part on your engine, yet it now rates at 320 horsepower.

Yet the same car boasts other stats which remain static. Such as weight. Your car weighs 1,406 kg (3,100 pounds) at the dealer. You look in the garage, it weighs 1,406 kg (3,100 pounds) in the garage. It weighs 1,406 kg (3,100 pounds) at the tracks.

This is a common occurance in GT2 (really in all GT games; oil change programming or no oil change programming). And this doesn't happen by magic, somebody had to have sat there and programmed the differences. And the question is WHY? Why make different values for horsespower at all? What's supposed to be the purpose?

This is what McCloud1 is asking. This is what I was trying to answer, see? Verstehen sie? Gut!

 

[Orion]

They did that, because everyone and thier brothers knew that the Skyline GT-R had more than 276HP. That is why they are programmed that way I guess, or they just got the information rushed and mixed up.

 

[sucahyo]

I forget who post this first, but Skyline will always shown to have 276?hp in magazine. But actually it has more horse power than that. In some version it even has power limiter installed at dealer which can be easily removed by the owner.

I think PD do the right thing for Japanese car with limited hp. Show limited hp in dealer and show the correct hp in garage.

 

[Parnelli Bone]

Well in the case of Japanese cars, there's supposed to be an "agreement" between mainstream car manufacturers and the Japanese government. "No car shall have over 280 ps (276 hp)" it seems to state. Yet this is not a set-in-stone rule...it's really more of a guideline. So what happens is, many car-makers wind up quoting 276 hp, but really there will be more under the hood (in the case of some R34 Skylines, 320 hp). Polyphony Digital was obviously attempting to replicate these discrephancies in their games.

 

[Orion]

Well in the case of Japanese cars, there's supposed to be an "agreement" between mainstream car manufacturers and the Japanese government. "No car shall have over 280 ps (276 hp)" it seems to state. Yet this is not a set-in-stone rule...it's really more of a guideline. So what happens is, many car-makers wind up quoting 276 hp, but really there will be more under the hood (in the case of some R34 Skylines, 320 hp). Polyphony Digital was obviously attempting to replicate these discrephancies in their games.

Exactly, but I don't see why PD gets certain cars such low HP figures. Does a BMW 525i really only have 138HP? It is just a disappointment there...

But now PD is saying that the Skyline has 360HP under the hood, with an oil change, without one it says 342HP in GT4, I think they are taking it too far. Being nearly 90HP higher than the "guideline"... I think they are trying to make the skyline so much better on purpose, and eventually the road Skyline GTR in the GT series will have more HP than an Euro-Lancer Evolution, which has around 400HP IRL. It is also funny that a Skyline can get tuned to have more HP than a Ford GT fully tuned. I remember it having like 935HP in GT4, if I am not mistaken, while the fully tuned Ford GT has 738HP. They seem to try to make the Skyline better than a Ford GT? [/off-topic]

But I see that the Dodge Stratus only has 100HP, and I am damn sure it has more than that.

 

[Parnelli Bone]

Exactly, but I don't see why PD gets certain cars such low HP figures. Does a BMW 525i really only have 138HP? It is just a disappointment there...

But now PD is saying that the Skyline has 360HP under the hood, with an oil change, without one it says 342HP in GT4, I think they are taking it too far. Being nearly 90HP higher than the "guideline"... I think they are trying to make the skyline so much better on purpose, and eventually the road Skyline GTR in the GT series will have more HP than an Euro-Lancer Evolution, which has around 400HP IRL. It is also funny that a Skyline can get tuned to have more HP than a Ford GT fully tuned. I remember it having like 935HP in GT4, if I am not mistaken, while the fully tuned Ford GT has 738HP. They seem to try to make the Skyline better than a Ford GT? [/off-topic]

But I see that the Dodge Stratus only has 100HP, and I am damn sure it has more than that.

I really don't know. Actually there's a 528i in GT2, not a 525i! But that always struck me as strange, too...as a kid I lived in Germany for awhile, I somehow got in the habit of thinking all the "upper" luxury cars like BMWs and Mercs have somewhere north of 300 hp standard (to keep up on the autobahn) so that 528i was a real shocker to me, too.

Which Skyline in GT4 has that much power? That actually might be accurate depending on which year and model we're talking about.

I have to agree with you about the Ford GT; although Ford isn't all that serious about racing nowadays like they used to be with the GT40, I doubt any of their newer models can pack upgrades supported by Ford Racing that boast much more than 738 hp. Isn't their SVT development team dead? All I know is you hardly ever see Fords racing anymore on that super-GT level. Nowadays, it's mostly Vipers, Vettes, 911-derived Porsches, Cadillacs, etc.

 

[Orion]

I really don't know. Actually there's a 528i in GT2, not a 525i! But that always struck me as strange, too...as a kid i lived in Germany for awhile, i somehow got in the habit of thinking all the "upper" luxury cars like BMW's and MErcs have somewhere north of 300 hp standard (to keep up on the autobahn) so that 528i was a real shocker to me, too.

Ohh lol, same 🤬 different toilet.

Which Skyline in GT4 has that much power? That actually might be accurate depending on which year and model we're talking about.

Skyline R34 V-Spec II Nur I think it was an '04

I have to agree with you about the Ford GT; although Ford isn't all that serious about racing nowadays like they used to be with the GT40, i doubt any of their newer models can pack upgrades supported by Ford Racing that boast much more than 738 hp. Isn't their SVT development team dead? All i know is you hardly ever see Fords racing anymore on that super-GT level. Nowadays, it's mostly Vipers, Vettes, 911-derived Porsches, Cadillacs, etc.

But even then the skyline is faster than all of those when fully tuned. Well except the viper. In GT2 they even called the Skyline the best performing Japanese car. Amazing.

 

[Parnelli Bone]

Well I agree with you on that last comment for sure! PD has been very Skyline-happy from day 1 and wants to make sure everyone knows it! Basically, the only reason I actually know what a Skyline is, is because of GT...

 

[A.A.Z.]

And what would you call the best performing Japanese car?

 

[Orion]

And what would you call the best performing Japanese car?

When they said the best Japanese car, they was talking about the R32, and I like the Supra RZ a little better. The car weights like 500-600 pounds heavier than a Subaru Impreza WRX STi Sedan, and theres tracks where the Lancer is faster than the Skyline. The Skyline R34 has to break rules just to be the best Japanese cars.

"Ohh the limit is 276HP? Okay, I will make a 360HP Nissan!"

I'm not against skylines, but I hate when a car is really over-rated like that. But atleast GT2 had a better selection of skylines rather than all GT-R's & a few others.

 

[Parnelli Bone]

And what would you call the best performing Japanese car?

I personally don't think you can call any of them 'the best". To do so would be stating an opinion which many others will disagree with (and with good reason, since any car has its flaws along with its bonuses).

 

[Gil]

Neither of you seem to get what i'm saying, well, actually Sucahyo kinda gets it. Yes i know you can fudge a car into a horsepower limited race, and the Ai does get a GT40 into the Historic race at Rome (and we can't do this), but i'm not even talking about these discrephancies. Be patient and check out what i'm saying...

You buy a car from the dealer. It says it has (let's say) 276 horsepower.

Now you take it "home" to the garage. Whoh...it really has 290 hp!!!???? Coool!

Now you take it to the race track or the Test track. You have not installed or changed a single part on your engine, yet it now rates at 320 horsepower.

Yet the same car boasts other stats which remain static. Such as weight. Your car weighs 1,098 kg (3,100 pounds) at the dealer. You look in the garage, it weighs 1,098 kg (3,100 pounds) in the garage. It weighs 1,098 kg (3,100 pounds) at the tracks.

This is a common occurance in GT2 (really in all GT games; oil change programming or no oil change programming). And this doesnt' happen by magic, somebody had to have sat there and programmed the differences. And the question is WHY? Why make different values for horespower at all? What's supposed to be the purpose?

This is what McCloud1 is asking. This is what i was trying to answer, see? Verstehen sie? Gut!

While it has been a long while since I booted up GT2, I don't recall this phenomenon in my copy of GT2
It's something that I would remember, as I built my cars to meet the HP restrictions of certain races, and with those kinds of jumps in power, I'd not be able to enter some races.
That would have hacked me off!! That's why I'd remember it.

 

[A.A.Z.]

About 276hp... Probably you all know that, but anyway -

...
The GT-R returned with twin ceramic turbochargers, all-wheel steering, all wheel drive, and 280 hp (206 kW) at 6800 rpm. The RB26DETT engine actually produced ~320 hp, but it was unstated due to the Japanese car makers' "gentlemen's agreement" not to exceed 206 kW (276 hp).

That's why I agree with racerx510, who said that the only way of making it really the best was just breaking the limit of power. But I love it, anyway Some japanese sportcars did the same - Supra, 3000GT, Lancer and many others... But they don't appear to be as good as the Skyline

 

[Orion]

The Lancer and Impreza are better IMO, since they have ratios that work perfectly for the cars. The Skyline ratios are a bit too far apart for its own power. Skylines are good and all, but they are so heavy, they are like 300-800 pounds heavier than the Impreza Sedan's or Lancer GSR's, depending on model and year. Especially the latest R34 Nur, it is over 1600Kg. That's almost muscle car status. The Lancer didn't break the HP numbers that much either. It just seems perfect for my tastes. 👍 We all have our opinions, and it's the differences that keeps the world from being monotonous.