Hot rod parts for a decidedly non-hot car - advice?

4,209
United States
Wasilla, AK
Well, the time has finally come to deal with the things on my Sunbird that need fixing and upgrading. Thus, this thread.

Number one on the list is why it can somehow guzzle just about as much trasmission fluid as it's supposed to have capacity for, but still have a balky, difficult to shove into gear shifter that can sometimes even grind into first or reverse after the car's been sitting, and barely show any fluid on the dipstick. No visible leaks. It's like I'm dumping transmission fluid into a black hole.

Number two is to get rid of the stock exhaust full of crush bends, which is now sagging and just asking to get ripped off. I've heard a Flowmaster or Dynomax or something on a later 3.4 and it sounded nice, like a fairly generic V6 sound. But I like the sheer loudness and race-car-like nastiness of a Cherry Bomb on this car, and they're apparently not expensive, which is good here. Thing is, I'm looking for a complete exhaust upgrade. After 21 years the cat is probably past its freshness date, so assuming I can get it to sniff dirty (difficult, as Alaska no longer has any I/M programs anywhere) or find some other evidence of the cat being over the hill, who makes a good-flowing stock-type (and thus legal) cat? Beyond that, what else would I do if I was looking to open up the higher revs a bit more without giving up much low- or mid-range torque? Apparently a single exhaust with ricer Y pipe would be best on the back end, but what size and what about headers?

Number three. Intake and other engine upgrades. What would be smart (and street-legal) to do with the above-stated powerband goals? Keep in mind that 90 octane is the best you can get from a pump here, and I'm not running race gas in my daily driver.

Number four should be number two. I've got a clogged injector, or eternal condensation in the tank, or something, because this car runs incredibly inconsistently. Usually it's rough and labored, just enough so you can tell something's off, but occasionally it'll run like a champ. Then sometimes, just as occasionally now, it'll start idling really wrong, fluctuating or trying to choke out. It always hesitates, cutting out for a short moment, when you floor the throttle suddenly. What's even going on here?

Number four. Wheels and tires. Again, lots of factors at work here. I like the look of low-profile tires, but Alaska's pavement can be slightly horrible at times and I regularly traverse dirt roads (mainly because I live on one). I don't want a surprise encounter with a pothole or a large rock to mean limping home from the armpit of nowhere on a compact spare, because that would kind of not be cool. Additionally, there's the question of what would even fit - Tire Rack lists 195/65-15 and 205/55-16 fitments for a 1993 Sunbird GT (the Sunbird SE is that but with better looking wheels and without ugly hidden headlights), but also lists 215/45-17 and 225/40-18 fitments for a 1993 Cavalier Z24, which is pretty much the same car. I'm inclined to trust the Pontiac results more, because it has a photo on their site rather than a placeholder blob, indicating they've had one in to analyze, but I've heard of these cars rolling 17's and 18's before. But then I also have rubbing at full lock with 205/65-15 snow tires, so I'm not really looking forward to seeing what 225's would do to my turning circle. WHAT DO?

Suspension. The shocks on this car are completely shot, and the springs probably aren't doing to well either. With ride quality being a non-factor, what are good ones to go for? What about sway bars? Strut tower bar? Doesn't look like this car has much room to go lower, espeically with larger wheels, but it'd be nice to find out just how much room there is.

Oil. Hasn't been changed in over a year. How do you go about switching to synthetic? Who makes the best oil?

Clutch. What's a good one to use for an upgrade?

Other problems. Steering wheel shakes hard under braking, something related to the left rear wheel seems to chafe on something every 180 degrees of rotation. A mechanic friend of mine says warped brake rotors, I was insistent it was a wheel bearing. I've finally realized there's no real reason the wheel shake and scraping couldn't be too seperate problems :ouch: As for wheel bearings, is it better to replace all four at once or just deal with the one that's causing trouble? As for brakes, this seems like another excuse to upgrade - how would you go about converting this front disc/rear drum car to four-wheel disc? Any good donor cars - maybe a later Cav? What about upgrade rotors and pads? Capability and fade resistance are the priorities. Where would I get stainless steel brake lines, as well.

Gas tank got a dent in the bottom of it somehow. Worth fixing? Is it possible to make a more secure fuel cell work with the stock filler?

And how much would all this cost? I have a budget of up to $6,000, but would prefer not using all of it.

And finally (for now), where would I get one of those mirrored stickers that reads "MOVE OVER -------->" in the next guy's rear view mirror. I want it for the sentiment, not the function, since I don't have too many compunctions about passing someone on the right if they've decided to go 61 MPH in the fast lane.

Keep in mind, this car will be daily driven, and 90 octane is the best it's going to get unless I leave the state.
 
I had a car with the same fuel system issues as you and by using injector cleaner (available at the petrol station or auto parts store) I was able to make it run a little smoother. It turbed out that I had more major issues and eventually had to replace the fuel pump.

$6k budget though man? I don't mean to offend but you can get a whole lotta car for that. I wouldn't be spending all that on what will ultimately always be 'just' a Sunbird.
 
Get a new car.

I'm serious for that much work it's not worth it.. get something worth modding with a good aftermarket scene behind it so you can easily find cheap second hand stuff.

If you're serious and you really want to stick with this tragic car.. well..

1: If there's no visible leak points, I really have no clue - the gearbox shouldn't be getting hot enough to burn the oil away so there's only one other way to go - out. It has to be leaking somewhere. Until you identify the source of the leak there's no advise to give other than take it to a shop.

2: Hi-flow systems are generally quite simple but you're looking at big bucks for it - I can't give any specific recommendations for your car but as previously stated you'll likely have to buy new or possibly even custom made. For headers you might be alright - Look into forums based around your specific engine.

I don't know specific laws in America but in NZ hi flow cats can be had for 250 bucks - this is a great alternative for an aged and restrictive catalytic converter

3: Again.. due to the restrictive base you're wanting to work with.. this is a tricky one. If your engine is fairly generic it would be better to go to a forum specifically for a car with that motor for advise/deals.

4: Fuel filter, injectors, pump or lines are stuffed. Work your way up from the cheapest.

5: Don't go lower than a profile of 45, it's not worth the headaches. Maybe 40 at a push but I'd advise against it if you have rough roads.

Try to get lightweight wheels, or as light as you can afford - you can usually find wheel weights if you google around enough. Less weight in the wheels means better acceleration due to less unsprung weight.

I wouldn't bother going higher than 225 - I don't know what you can fit on your standard rims. Style and brand is entirely up to you but stay away from imitation brands, they're cheap for a reason.

6: Don't bother going for adjustables, get some bilsteins - they're well worth the investment. Don't get King Springs as they don't actually stiffen the car at all, the lowering is purely cosmetic. Get Teins if you can, they're the brand I'd personally recommend.

All this is dependant on what's available for your car however.. I don't think Bilsteins or any other performance brand make anything for your.. car..

7: I've had good experiences with Castrol, I'd stick to the oil your car usually uses personally.

8: Exeedy make great 2 stage clutches which have a nice feel, however this is once again dependant on what would fit your engine. I'd imagine the engine is fairly generic given the make however that could also have a limited aftermarket for all I know.

9: I'd do all the wheel bearings at once, if one fails the rest won't be far away. With how old your car is it's better to be safe than sorry.

10: Depends on where the dent is, if it's interfering with the pickup it could cause problems. Probably wouldn't be significant enough to bother with though.

11: More than it's worth. 6k won't get you far with modifying cars, especially with how much of this stuff would have to be custom.

You wont get stainless steel brake lines, or at least they'd be rare and expensive. Get braided lines, they work exactly the same.

In closing:

Don't bother, your car isn't worth it.

I get what you're doing, you want a car people think is crap and you want to make it a genuinely good car and I respect that, really I do.

But the bottom line is, it's an American Civic - a mover for the masses. It's not a sports car and it never will be. The money you're willing to sink into this thing could buy you a real muscle car so you can stroke your massive manly ego with while telling all them "sissy pony lovers to man up" while drinking a bud light and watchin' the GAME

It's not worth it.
 
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Part it out to add to your budget, then get another car. Or do it the other way round - buy another car and strip the Sunbird, selling the bits, get scrap money for the rest (if that's possible in the States - I don't know) and use that money for modifications to your new car. I'm assuming Sunbirds are common? If so there's bound to be buyers for headlights, indicators, bumpers, door mirrors etc - all the easily damaged stuff that isn't worth bothering the insurance company with.

I'm sure $6k could get you a very nice Miata you didn't get last time, for example. Flyin' Miata even give you instructions on how to convert a Miata to take a V8.
 
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There certainly are very big performance improvements to be done on a Sunbird, for no other reason than parts commonality with other GM cars. A much more powerful version of that same engine is just a wrecked Cutlass or Malibu away, for example.

That much of a budget on a virtually worthless car that needs new parts to continue functioning at all is still nothing more than a fantastic way to convert $6000 into no value. Christ, just buy a Grand Am if that is what you're trying to make your car into.
 
Well, the time has finally come to deal with the things on my Sunbird that need fixing and upgrading. Thus, this thread.

Number one on the list is why it can somehow guzzle just about as much trasmission fluid as it's supposed to have capacity for, but still have a balky, difficult to shove into gear shifter that can sometimes even grind into first or reverse after the car's been sitting, and barely show any fluid on the dipstick. No visible leaks. It's like I'm dumping transmission fluid into a black hole.

Number two is to get rid of the stock exhaust full of crush bends, which is now sagging and just asking to get ripped off. I've heard a Flowmaster or Dynomax or something on a later 3.4 and it sounded nice, like a fairly generic V6 sound. But I like the sheer loudness and race-car-like nastiness of a Cherry Bomb on this car, and they're apparently not expensive, which is good here. Thing is, I'm looking for a complete exhaust upgrade. After 21 years the cat is probably past its freshness date, so assuming I can get it to sniff dirty (difficult, as Alaska no longer has any I/M programs anywhere) or find some other evidence of the cat being over the hill, who makes a good-flowing stock-type (and thus legal) cat? Beyond that, what else would I do if I was looking to open up the higher revs a bit more without giving up much low- or mid-range torque? Apparently a single exhaust with ricer Y pipe would be best on the back end, but what size and what about headers?

Number three. Intake and other engine upgrades. What would be smart (and street-legal) to do with the above-stated powerband goals? Keep in mind that 90 octane is the best you can get from a pump here, and I'm not running race gas in my daily driver.

Number four should be number two. I've got a clogged injector, or eternal condensation in the tank, or something, because this car runs incredibly inconsistently. Usually it's rough and labored, just enough so you can tell something's off, but occasionally it'll run like a champ. Then sometimes, just as occasionally now, it'll start idling really wrong, fluctuating or trying to choke out. It always hesitates, cutting out for a short moment, when you floor the throttle suddenly. What's even going on here?

Number four. Wheels and tires. Again, lots of factors at work here. I like the look of low-profile tires, but Alaska's pavement can be slightly horrible at times and I regularly traverse dirt roads (mainly because I live on one). I don't want a surprise encounter with a pothole or a large rock to mean limping home from the armpit of nowhere on a compact spare, because that would kind of not be cool. Additionally, there's the question of what would even fit - Tire Rack lists 195/65-15 and 205/55-16 fitments for a 1993 Sunbird GT (the Sunbird SE is that but with better looking wheels and without ugly hidden headlights), but also lists 215/45-17 and 225/40-18 fitments for a 1993 Cavalier Z24, which is pretty much the same car. I'm inclined to trust the Pontiac results more, because it has a photo on their site rather than a placeholder blob, indicating they've had one in to analyze, but I've heard of these cars rolling 17's and 18's before. But then I also have rubbing at full lock with 205/65-15 snow tires, so I'm not really looking forward to seeing what 225's would do to my turning circle. WHAT DO?

Suspension. The shocks on this car are completely shot, and the springs probably aren't doing to well either. With ride quality being a non-factor, what are good ones to go for? What about sway bars? Strut tower bar? Doesn't look like this car has much room to go lower, espeically with larger wheels, but it'd be nice to find out just how much room there is.

Oil. Hasn't been changed in over a year. How do you go about switching to synthetic? Who makes the best oil?

Clutch. What's a good one to use for an upgrade?

Other problems. Steering wheel shakes hard under braking, something related to the left rear wheel seems to chafe on something every 180 degrees of rotation. A mechanic friend of mine says warped brake rotors, I was insistent it was a wheel bearing. I've finally realized there's no real reason the wheel shake and scraping couldn't be too seperate problems :ouch: As for wheel bearings, is it better to replace all four at once or just deal with the one that's causing trouble? As for brakes, this seems like another excuse to upgrade - how would you go about converting this front disc/rear drum car to four-wheel disc? Any good donor cars - maybe a later Cav? What about upgrade rotors and pads? Capability and fade resistance are the priorities. Where would I get stainless steel brake lines, as well.

Gas tank got a dent in the bottom of it somehow. Worth fixing? Is it possible to make a more secure fuel cell work with the stock filler?

And how much would all this cost? I have a budget of up to $6,000, but would prefer not using all of it.

And finally (for now), where would I get one of those mirrored stickers that reads "MOVE OVER -------->" in the next guy's rear view mirror. I want it for the sentiment, not the function, since I don't have too many compunctions about passing someone on the right if they've decided to go 61 MPH in the fast lane.

Keep in mind, this car will be daily driven, and 90 octane is the best it's going to get unless I leave the state.


If you want to keep the Sunbird nameplate then go buy a first generation one, they can be had for $1000 if you look around.

Your car is one of those that it's simply not worth upgrading, no matter how you look at it. Don't take this the wrong way, but it really isn't.

If you are looking to be different, this isn't the way to be doing it. Take your $6k and go buy a real nice car. You'd be surprised what you can get for that.
 
I've got a clogged injector, or eternal condensation in the tank, or something, because this car runs incredibly inconsistently. Usually it's rough and labored, just enough so you can tell something's off, but occasionally it'll run like a champ. Then sometimes, just as occasionally now, it'll start idling really wrong, fluctuating or trying to choke out. It always hesitates, cutting out for a short moment, when you floor the throttle suddenly. What's even going on here?
Maybe fuel-related, but it also sounds like an electrical problem, due to the inconsistency. Rotted ignition wires are likely enough, anyway.
Oil. Hasn't been changed in over a year. How do you go about switching to synthetic? Who makes the best oil?
Assuming the car has been running dino oil for years and years, straight synthetic will scrub out the gunk that's holding your tired old seals shut, which means new leaks. There are blended synthetics for high-mileage engines that are usually okay, though.

If you're going to fix the Sunbird, you should fix the problems first, see how that all turns out (cost and viability), and THEN think about aftermarket upgrades.
 
Take your $6k and go buy a real nice car. You'd be surprised what you can get for that.

There is a Kia Spectra sitting in my driveway that cost that much, and it isn't half bad.

(Still wish it was a 5-speed though...)
 
After a quick scan of Craigslist, yeah... I think I'm keeping the Bird. In AK, for 6 grand, it's impossible to find a good muscle car. You can search Camaro, Mustang, Firebird, whatever you want, it'll all be garbage. Almost all the F-bodies have t-tops, which I specifically don't want. The modern ones are usually V6s. Or they're early-90s V8s that are automatic, very obviously beat (as in major collision damage apparent from photo), or "just need a little bit of work to fix that knocking noise". 3rd gens are often 305s (often with AT as well), in really bad shape, or are already hot-rodded and thus might be a federal felony on wheels (catalyst). Fox Mustangs are all garbage and SN95/SN99 cars are either automatics or need major engine work. I'm not buying an I4 (although I might let one that was turbo'd from the factory slip through, to broaden my search a little bit and because turbo Chryslers are cool) or an FF Honda.

As for the Corvette, I've found one in budget, it's a 1985 for $5,999. And don't those tend to snap loose and kill you on rough roads anyway?
 
I'm gonna be biased weird and suggest an E30 325i.

9755.jpg

bmw_3_series_e30_1983_wallpapers_1.jpg


>under 3000 lbs
>good proportion of available cars are manual-equipped
>very few gadgets
>RWD
>handles well
>faster than a Sunbird
 
Turbo I4 from factory? Low budget?

How about a Mazda MX6? They come with a 2.2l I4 that comes turbo from factory and it's a pretty stout motor, just look on Youtube for MX6 F2T and you'll see what I mean. The chassis is quite competent as well. Or, you can also go for the 2nd gen MX6 which has a V6 engine up front. Both of them don't have tons of aftermarket support but have great communities that know how to take them to crazy power levels for very little cash.
 
If you want a muscle/classic car, it would make more sense to take the $6,000 you have and buy something for $1500-$2000 and make it a project car while keeping your Sunbird as a daily.

'69 Plymouth Valiant: http://anchorage.craigslist.org/cto/4463770168.html
'69 Dodge Dart: http://anchorage.craigslist.org/cto/4437592150.html
'66 Dodge Dart: http://anchorage.craigslist.org/cto/4437592404.html
'85 Pontiac Firebird: http://anchorage.craigslist.org/cto/4432169435.html


Slightly off topic, looking through the Alaska Craigslist, it appears that you have old turbo Saabs everywhere in Alaska for next to nothing. I'm almost will to come and buy one...almost.
 
Hey maybe if you finally mod the Sunbird you'llrealize how much of a crapbox it is to the core and reach some equivalent of an automotive enlightenment.

Sometimes you have hit rock bottom before you can rise.
 
@Slash I wasn't saying Fox Mustangs are bad cars, I wouldn't mind having one, it's just that the ones I can find are. In order: automatic, faded looking convertible, probably OK but sketchy looking convertible, garbage looking but apparently mechanically sound V6.

@Joey D I'm almost tempted to investigate that Firebird, T-tops are the only thing keeping me from doing so. I'd even put up with that purple color, better than the awful teal I found a '91 in.
 
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My M3 cost six grand, food for thought.

If you dump money into this crap box Sunbird, you're worse than the Civic guys because at least the Civic has a chassis and support to merit it. And you can always sell a Civic to a kid wanting Fast and Furious style, a Sunbird is good for rusting in a yard in that regard.

If you MUST have displacement, get a Fox body.

And if you get a purple car, you'll be that much closer to being like me. Just slap a Twilight Sparkle sticker on there and bam, TRANSFORMATION COMPLETE.
 
I literally went to the Anchorage Craigslist and searched quick and found these in 2 seconds. Some are automatics but they aren't hard to change. An afternoon at best.

1991 Fox GT 5.0L (NICE): http://anchorage.craigslist.org/cto/4459818463.html

1990 5.0 Fox Convertible: http://anchorage.craigslist.org/cto/4456497507.html

1996 Mustang 4.6L: http://anchorage.craigslist.org/cto/4457838574.html

1998 Mustang 4.6L: http://anchorage.craigslist.org/cto/4453454302.html

1991 Fox LX: http://anchorage.craigslist.org/cto/4443011687.html

1983 Fox 5.0 Convertible: http://anchorage.craigslist.org/cto/4448051396.html

1991 Firebord 5.7L GTA: http://anchorage.craigslist.org/cto/4440329453.html

1995 Firebired T/A: http://anchorage.craigslist.org/cto/4428349074.html

1986 Camaro Iroc-Z: http://anchorage.craigslist.org/cto/4459898759.html

1972 Camaro RS: http://anchorage.craigslist.org/cto/4459981057.html

1988 Camaro: http://anchorage.craigslist.org/cto/4457519020.html

1986 Camaro 5.0L: http://anchorage.craigslist.org/cto/4456651426.html

1988 Camaro 5.0L: http://anchorage.craigslist.org/cto/4445368536.html

1998 Camaro V6: http://anchorage.craigslist.org/cto/4445416752.html

1977 Camaro w/ built/modded 5.7L: http://anchorage.craigslist.org/cto/4417488090.html



There's more but I got tired of linking.
 
You really are special aren't you.


FYI, 305's aren't bad motors.

You know you're trying to reason with a person that doesn't know what the hell he's talking about right? I'm just here for the lulz as people try hard to give him advice that he ultimately isn't going to use. Which is why up to this point I've only read the thread to laugh and not help. Rather not waste my time.
 
Let's stick to the sober advice, anyway... Education is good.

@UrieHusky covered it all, but basically, $6k is an insane amount to spend on a 'bird. If you're turning it into a beater racer or an autocross car, I wouldn't bother with much in terms of mods except those that make it more reliable. Just fix the exhaust and leaks, rattles and other issues, put good shocks (not a suspension, just shocks) on and go racing in the snow.

At $6k, the huge variety of beater racers you can buy out there is simply unbelievable. And most will serve you better.

Trust me/us, from experience, you don't want to be "that guy" who spends a fortune on an uncompetitive platform.
 
Also, @Joey D: there's probably a reason all those turbo Saabs are avaialble cheap. Alaska rust plus Saab reliability issues equals useless hunk of iron oxide that you can't trust to get you to work and back.

As for those cars you linked, there are some I'm sorely tempted to check out, but I think the TANSTAAFL maxim definitely applies here. I still might check out some of those.

I'm also expanding my search to Eastern WA since I have family in the area and there are plenty of fish in that particular sea.
 
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