How come?

[4DSC]

Every single GT that came out, they seemed to always overlook a bunch of cars that so desearved to be in the series, but for some reason, less interesting cars, or 15 different Skyline or Supra models seemed to make the final cut. One very interesting sporty sedan that I feel was highly overlooked which is quite popular here for it's reliability in the states called the Nissan Maxima.. I myself own a 92' sports edition with the 5spd and the performance numbers aren't too shabby at all. 0-60mph in 6.7 seconds, does the 1/4 in 15.2 seconds, and with just a bolt on or 2, it races to 150mph straight from the factory. For those unfamilier with the specs(most are since the engine was only used in one car for 4 years), here goes: 3.0L DOHC V6, with 24 valves, Nissan Valve Timing, viscous limited slip differential, and a fully independant suspension with front and rear sways.. All that coming in at a nice 3150lbs.. Gave the N/A 300ZX a run for it's money. What really gets me is that we all know there are so many cars that don't belong in GT4, yet they couldn't even bother to add any generation Maxima let alone the one I have(the coolest ).. Anybody have any idea why they keep passing up opportunities of adding more desearving cars into the series? Theres a Honda Odyssey in the game for crying out loud Is that car suppose to appeal to the soccer mom fans of the genre? The beauty is in the pics below. Thanks..

 

[Wolfe]

No one here knows why Polyphony Digital decided to include X car but not Y, A but not B, etc....the only way you would know is if you asked them.

However, I can assure you that for every person that thinks Y should have been in the game and that X should not have been included, there's someone who is glad that X was included, and would have been flabbergasted if Y was included, too.

For example, I believe that the E30 M3 would have been a much better candidate for inclusion in GT4 than the Maxima (nothing personal)...but that doesn't mean I made a thread to make my case.

The only advice I can give you is to post your request for the Maxima in an existing wishlist thread in our GT5 forum...because I don't think this thread will remain open for very long.

 

[4DSC]

Thanks for the advice.. Thought some power players rolled here that have connects to PD.. Guess not.

Btw, you don't need to make a thread to make your case because they put 4 different E46 M3s(from what I have seen so far) in GT4.. Seen any Maximas of any generations in any GT? Not me.. There are plenty of other cars the Maxima can replace along with the E30 M3.

 

[Wolfe]

Thanks for the advice.. Thought some power players rolled here that have connects to PD.. Guess not.

So the rumor goes. No one knows for sure, although I have my suspicions about one particular member.

Btw, you don't need to make a thread to make your case because they put 4 different E46 M3s(from what I have seen so far) in GT4.. Seen any Maximas of any generations in any GT? Not me.. There are plenty of other cars the Maxima can replace along with the E30 M3.

I could use the same logic to make the claim that you didn't need to make this thread because there are many more Nissans than there are BMWs. An M3 is an M3, but an E46 M3 is not an E30 M3, just like a Nissan is a Nissan, but a Primera is not a Maxima.

When all is said and done, everyone will have conflicting opinions about what cars should or should not be included in Gran Turismo. The only thing we all should agree on is that no cars should be removed/replaced whenever the game switches to a new sequel, if at all possible, and that PD should try to include as many cars as possible, from a wide variety of manufacturers and countries.

 

[4DSC]

So the rumor goes. No one knows for sure, although I have my suspicions about one particular member.

Oh theres a rumor?

I could use the same logic to make the claim that you didn't need to make this thread because there are many more Nissans than there are BMWs. An M3 is an M3, but an E46 M3 is not an E30 M3, just like a Nissan is a Nissan, but a Primera is not a Maxima.

Good point, but the game is made by Japanese, no? Kinda would make more sense for there to be more Nissans. But still.. I think any type of Maxima should have at least made the cut. If not for the performance, at least for the fact they are all over the place.

When all is said and done, everyone will have conflicting opinions about what cars should or should not be included in Gran Turismo. The only thing we all should agree on is that no cars should be removed/replaced whenever the game switches to a new sequel, if at all possible, and that PD should try to include as many cars as possible, from a wide variety of manufacturers and countries.

I agree/disagree.. There are many cars that don't belong there. There are also plenty of Skylines that are all exactly the same for example and are just taking up space. Those are good spots that can be filled by many good cars. All the essentials should of course always be included and never removed or replaced.

Btw, you wouldn't happen to be a member of hotbimmer.net would ya?

 

[Wolfe]

I agree/disagree.. There are many cars that don't belong there. There are also plenty of Skylines that are all exactly the same for example and are just taking up space. Those are good spots that can be filled by many good cars. All the essentials should of course always be included and never removed or replaced.

Btw, you wouldn't happen to be a member of hotbimmer.net would ya?

You almost have a point with the Skyline bit. As for the "there are many cars that don't belong there," what about the Subaru 360 enthusiasts, or the guys who restored a Model T as a hobby? What about the Fiat 500 enthusiasts, or the fans of the Dodge Ram? The people who think diesel-powered BMW 1-series cars are better than petrol-powered ones, and vice-versa? Just like how you feel excluded because you own a Maxima and can't drive one in the game, the owners/fans of those cars would feel the same way if their car was dropped from the lineup in GT5. One of the few cars I can think of that would have a very small or nonexistent fan base is the Honda Life Step Van, but even then, I would be assuming too much. I don't know for sure.

Anyway, back to the Skylines. Although they could be condensed into one or a handful of models, adding identical cars with different trim levels makes a miniscule impact on disc space. The only negative thing about adding those variants is that it allows PD to report a larger number of cars on the back of the packaging than they would otherwise.

Look at it this way, too -- I can gather from your posts that you aren't happy with the exclusion of the Maxima. Wouldn't it be worse if the only Gran Turismo that had one was GT1 or GT2? That they knew about the existence of your car, gathered data for it, and then deemed it unworthy for later titles? That's why I think Polyphony Digital should drop as few cars as possible with each new release. Less feelings are hurt that way.


Oh, and no, I'm not a member of hotbimmer.net, although I am an inactive member of bimmerforums.com.

 

[lazydog]

There are many cars that don't belong there.

Based on what definitions does a specific car "qualify" to be included in a racing game (or "car simulator"), respectively how does it fail to do so?

For each car model that was ever built, either as a road vehicle, racing car or prototype there are probably several thousands of fans around the world who either own one of their favoured machine, or collect (historical) data and photographs or drive it in a video game.

Even "rust-buckets" like the Fiat 500 were once rather popular in Europe, similar to the VW Beetle (though not as famous and well-known) and just last week i saw one of those things in a parking lot. It was heavily modified and had one of those Abarth-exhausts (loud as hell ). So even for these little cars there are still fans around the world. Another example is the Volkswagen Lupo Cup which is popular in Germany, though probably unknown in other parts of the World.

In fact, since playing the GT-Series since GT1 I learned a lot about cars. Cars which I didn't even know they exist. So IMHO, there can not be too many different cars in GT, and there are certainly none "which do not belong in".

Given the fact, that there were probably tenths of thousands different cars developed and built since the Daimler Motor Carriage it is obvious that PD can not include every single model. So there are lots of cars "missing", yes, but there are no "superfluos" cars in the game.

 

[TheCracker]

Unless PD included every single car ever made, you are never going to please everyone are you?

 

[Scaff]

You almost have a point with the Skyline bit. As for the "there are many cars that don't belong there," what about the Subaru 360 enthusiasts, or the guys who restored a Model T as a hobby? What about the Fiat 500 enthusiasts, or the fans of the Dodge Ram? The people who think diesel-powered BMW 1-series cars are better than petrol-powered ones, and vice-versa? Just like how you feel excluded because you own a Maxima and can't drive one in the game, the owners/fans of those cars would feel the same way if their car was dropped from the lineup in GT5. One of the few cars I can think of that would have a very small or nonexistent fan base is the Honda Life Step Van, but even then, I would be assuming too much. I don't know for sure.

Anyway, back to the Skylines. Although they could be condensed into one or a handful of models, adding identical cars with different trim levels makes a miniscule impact on disc space. The only negative thing about adding those variants is that it allows PD to report a larger number of cars on the back of the packaging than they would otherwise.

Look at it this way, too -- I can gather from your posts that you aren't happy with the exclusion of the Maxima. Wouldn't it be worse if the only Gran Turismo that had one was GT1 or GT2? That they knew about the existence of your car, gathered data for it, and then deemed it unworthy for later titles? That's why I think Polyphony Digital should drop as few cars as possible with each new release. Less feelings are hurt that way.


Oh, and no, I'm not a member of hotbimmer.net, although I am an inactive member of bimmerforums.com.

Well said Wolfe, I for one love the Fiat 500, in fact I have a soft spot for a lot of the smaller cars in GT4, and you are quite right the inclusion/exclusion of any particular car will always provoke a reaction form someone.

Even the loss of the Honda Life Step Van (my kids love it).

How much poorer would the series be if a Forza/PGR3 type attitude of only allowing cars over a certain bhp/top speed was adopted, I know it would certainly loose a lot of its apeal to me.

Its in this area that games like the GT series and Enthusia win out, they allow you to take and race cars that you may not have experienced before. After all people do actualy race almost anything (for example the annual 2CV 24hr race).

And as for the Honda Odyssey, that a car that should be tried before being dismissed.

👍

Scaff

 

[Dave A]

With regards to car's like the R34 Skyline that has a high number of variations, all the variations require very little work to make, making two versions of the R34 GT-R V-spec ie the V-Spec and the V-spec II takes almost no effort com[pared to making the GT-R -spec and a totally different car. Yes the extra car is taking up disk space, but in GT4 the disk wasn't full I know that for sure. It can seem irritating to see 10 different R34 Skylines and then only 1 modle of a car you like, but if you look at it in the way that thoes variations arn't actually taking the place of something else, there is absoluely no reason for them not to be there.

 

[Wolfe]

How much poorer would the series be if a Forza/PGR3 type attitude of only allowing cars over a certain bhp/top speed was adopted, I know it would certainly loose a lot of its apeal to me.

I was only marginally interested in PGR3 when it first came out for this very reason. As I'm sure you noticed, they have already dropped that idea and have begun including "lesser" downloadable cars, which have all been much more popular than some of the faster cars that came with the game disc itself.

 

[CJ350]

I'm less into the "why didn't they include this model or that" and more into why aren't there more 1 make races. There are many smaller cars in the game, by company, that have no 1 make races at all. And many of them have a large fan base.

 

[samj_13]

After all people do actualy race almost anything (for example the annual 2CV 24hr race).


Scaff

Some people have all the patience in the world

Another example would be lawnmower racing! I think it's on ESPN2 sometimes, but that looks really cool, even if they are lawnmowers.

Back on topic, I feel the same way you do about some cars being included/excluded from the GT series. One I might point out is the new C6 Z06 Corvette. PD put in the '05 BMW M5, but not the 'Vette. Even if it was a concept version I would be that much happier.

But we can't all get what we want, so we have to make due with what we have.

 

[KiwiBoy]

Well. I know lots of people that want their own car to be in GT4, but isn't. For example, my parents once had a camry and that wasn't in the game, so I was sad. Now they got a ml350 and although it is a 2006 model, PD didn't put it in the game too. I think we can only wait for GT5 which has more cars.

 

[SirBerra]

Well. I know lots of people that want their own car to be in GT4, but isn't. For example, my parents once had a camry and that wasn't in the game, so I was sad. Now they got a ml350 and although it is a 2006 model, PD didn't put it in the game too. I think we can only wait for GT5 which has more cars.

Why not tell your parents to buy a car that is already in GT4? I'm sure they would be quite happy driving around in an Audi Nuvolari Quattro or an Aston Martin Vantage. If you ask nicely you might be able to convince them.

 

[SirBerra]

I always wondered why GT4 put in Historic tiddlers. I thought they were the outdated dregs. But now that I've been using them, they are a lot of fun and the racing for 200 A-spec points is very challenging. Some of those old cars can really handle. For instance, that old front-wheel drive Nissan Silvia can go around turns on rails. At least I have a chance to see that those pre-70 cars can do some serious racing. Some of them look kinda funky, but they got some good engineering behind them. I'm glad PD put those cars in to race.

 

[Speedy Samurai]

...game is made by Japanese, no?

I find this comment in bad taste.

 

[Abysmal Pea]

The Odyssey is pretty fun to drive around nurburgring, and I usually hate low-powered cars.

 

[Ermac26]

No one here knows why Polyphony Digital decided to include X car but not Y, A but not B, etc....the only way you would know is if you asked them.

However, I can assure you that for every person that thinks Y should have been in the game and that X should not have been included, there's someone who is glad that X was included, and would have been flabbergasted if Y was included, too.

For example, I believe that the E30 M3 would have been a much better candidate for inclusion in GT4 than the Maxima (nothing personal)...but that doesn't mean I made a thread to make my case.

The only advice I can give you is to post your request for the Maxima in an existing wishlist thread in our GT5 forum...because I don't think this thread will remain open for very long.

I'm agreeing with this comment. Only because we have a car wish list which is worth the look . Also, we all agree that X car should have been in GT4 and Y car should not have been.

In regards to the Skylines, I don't mind them all only because I love the look and power of this car

 

[JRK]

Unless PD included every single car ever made, you are never going to please everyone are you?

So true. 👍 Just be happy with 700+ cars in the best ever racing game. 💡

 

[samj_13]

Unless PD included every single car ever made, you are never going to please everyone are you?

And if you do that, people are going to [still] complain about the umpteen amount of Skylines, NSX's, RX-'s, MX-5's, etc., etc. So, in theory, it is impossible to please everyone in a racing game. Damn.

 

[4DSC]

One of the few cars I can think of that would have a very small or nonexistent fan base is the Honda Life Step Van, but even then, I would be assuming too much. I don't know for sure.

Finally you understand where Im coming from. I may not have thought it through well enough on how many cars included in GT4 have a following, but this is exactly what Im talking about.. Even if the Honda Life Step Van has any type of following, do you really think its more important to put that in the game, rather then ANY Maxima? Seriosly.. For example, take these cars.. Suzuki Alto, Suzuki MRwagon sport, Daihatsu Move Custom, Mitsubishi Airtrek, Toyota Will VS.. I smell dealership advertisment present. No disrespect to these cars but, I know enough about Japanese cars even in Japan to know that these cars do not have more of a following then any Maxima in the world if they have any. Not only these cars, there are so many more in the Japanese section. Gee, I wonder why Seems US in the game pretty much got all their essentials down. I really can't speak for the other countries, but Im pretty sure this type of game/company agreement is going on as well. Those spots can be very well refilled with cars from a MUCH larger fan base. E46 3 series, ANY Monte Carlo, Dodge Stealth(3000GT) but still a very decent following, any T-bird, 5.0 Stang, Lincoln Town Car or Crown Vics(maybe ), the Galant, the Maxima, the Camry, the Altima, the Sentra, maybe a Saturn or two(don't know much about them, but hear people like them lol), Subaru SVX, and the list can go on and on from all of you. You guys really think the following from those cars in the game that I mentioned is greater then the ones I just listed? You would probably be lying to yourself if you said otherwise.

Oh, and no, I'm not a member of hotbimmer.net, although I am an inactive member of bimmerforums.com.

Yeah, Im guessing that wasn't the best BMW forum to choose on my part.

Based on what definitions does a specific car "qualify" to be included in a racing game (or "car simulator"), respectively how does it fail to do so?

Apparently they can't include every car in the game, so why not include the more "drivable" cars. Just like I was telling Wolfe, there are plenty of cars that just don't have a big enough following compared to cars that have alot more yet weren't included, for very strange reasons. Possibly due to lack of research in that area of cars(no matter how hard it is for me to comprehend that, it's probably true), or $$$$ deals with the companies. Take a look at my forum http://forums.maxima.org/forum_index.php.. 68k members! and counting strong. Even the very popular Supraforums are only at 50k.. Im on many different automotive forums, and other then THE automotiveforums.com and the RX7 forums, I havn't actually seen a much larger community. So I really don't know what to say here guys

And as for the Honda Odyssey, that a car that should be tried before being dismissed.

With all do respect Scaff, do you really think that car has a reason for being in a driving game? Even if so, know many followers? Know many owners who only keep an Odyssey in the family, and are bold car enthusiasts?

I was only marginally interested in PGR3 when it first came out for this very reason. As I'm sure you noticed, they have already dropped that idea and have begun including "lesser" downloadable cars, which have all been much more popular than some of the faster cars that came with the game disc itself.

Really? Anything interesting came out? PGR2 was so much better. I don't own the game, but from the few times I played it, I noticed they all seem to handle the same in this new installment.

I always wondered why GT4 put in Historic tiddlers. I thought they were the outdated dregs. But now that I've been using them, they are a lot of fun and the racing for 200 A-spec points is very challenging. Some of those old cars can really handle. For instance, that old front-wheel drive Nissan Silvia can go around turns on rails. At least I have a chance to see that those pre-70 cars can do some serious racing. Some of them look kinda funky, but they got some good engineering behind them. I'm glad PD put those cars in to race.

I definatly don't disagree with them putting classics in..

I find this comment in bad taste.

Eerrrr, uummm.. Don't really get where your coming from with that, but I capatilized the "J" if that makes any difference

 

[Wolfe]

Finally you understand where Im coming from. I may not have thought it through well enough on how many cars included in GT4 have a following, but this is exactly what Im talking about.. Even if the Honda Life Step Van has any type of following, do you really think its more important to put that in the game, rather then ANY Maxima? Seriosly.. For example, take these cars.. Suzuki Alto, Suzuki MRwagon sport, Daihatsu Move Custom, Mitsubishi Airtrek, Toyota Will VS.. I smell dealership advertisment present. No disrespect to these cars but, I know enough about Japanese cars even in Japan to know that these cars do not have more of a following then any Maxima in the world if they have any. Not only these cars, there are so many more in the Japanese section. Gee, I wonder why Seems US in the game pretty much got all their essentials down. I really can't speak for the other countries, but Im pretty sure this type of game/company agreement is going on as well. Those spots can be very well refilled with cars from a MUCH larger fan base. E46 3 series, ANY Monte Carlo, Dodge Stealth(3000GT) but still a very decent following, any T-bird, 5.0 Stang, Lincoln Town Car or Crown Vics(maybe ), the Galant, the Maxima, the Camry, the Altima, the Sentra, maybe a Saturn or two(don't know much about them, but hear people like them lol), Subaru SVX, and the list can go on and on from all of you. You guys really think the following from those cars in the game that I mentioned is greater then the ones I just listed? You would probably be lying to yourself if you said otherwise.

Actually, that's not the point I was trying to make. I will concede that it is undeniable that certain excluded cars have larger fanbases than certain included cars, but when it comes to asking "why?" the only ones who can answer that question are Polyphony Digital, and we aren't them.

Besides, in my opinion, that still does not warrant the removal of any car from the current game for the next release. Of course, that's bound to happen, but I would rather not see it.

Yeah, Im guessing that wasn't the best BMW forum to choose on my part.

I don't even visit bimmerforums.com. The only reason I checked it out was to talk with other BMW owners in my area, but a very close friend of mine got ripped off by one of the most prominent Madison-area bimmerforums members, so I don't really want to go to any of their meets or anything anymore.

Really? Anything interesting came out? PGR2 was so much better. I don't own the game, but from the few times I played it, I noticed they all seem to handle the same in this new installment.

They do handle pretty much exactly the same, although powerslides are still better in PGR2. I mainly prefer PGR2 for its varied car selection and VASTLY superior Live multiplayer GUI.

You can find out about the extra cars by searching for "PGR3 speed pack," "PGR3 cadillac," and "PGR3 style pack" in google.

Eerrrr, uummm.. Don't really get where your coming from with that, but I capatilized the "J" if that makes any difference

"Japanese" is a derogatory word for Japanese people that dates back to WWII or perhaps earlier. Although I'm sure many people would disagree, I believe it is akin to using the word ****** (the "N-word" if GTP bleeps that out), and some of our members are deeply offended when it is used.

Considering the fact that you don't type like a 12-year-old Counterstrike player, I assume that typing five extra letters won't be too much to ask of you. So please try to remember to spell out "Japanese" in full next time.