How far should female emancipation go?

[smellysocks12]

So we all know the past couple of decennia women have empowered their position in society. Though I don't believe they're equally treated yet, since it will take some time until we will see the first female president of the USA, their situation definitely improved. Now on the other hand we have this dilemma. Should we keep these old fashioned habits, like men having to buy drinks for women, simply because women used to not have work during the time this unwritten rule was made. Read this little article / column below, about this subject.

Drink Pimpin' : How Women Try to Get Over
By Darryl James
July 19, 2005

I spend a great deal of time trying to understand and trying to provide understanding for human behavior exhibited during dating and relationships. But I don’t think I'll ever understand how some grown folks want to assign complete responsibility for their entertainment to other grown folks.

The argument is going on somewhere right now over who should pay for what during the dating process. Some men have no problem paying for everything, while others want to share the expenses. Some women have no problem carrying their own weight, while others seek a man who is "generous," "traditional," or "old fashioned." No matter the result of that argument, I am absolutely floored beyond imagination when financial expectations come without even dating.

Here's the example you knew was coming:

It was a Saturday night during my fraternity's convention. One of my brothers called me over to a table in the hotel bar to help him keep six women company.

I slid right in between two of them and struck up a conversation. For fifteen minutes, we were having a good time. And then it happened.

One of the ladies sitting across from me with a really bad weave asked if I was buying a round of drinks for everyone since my fraternity brother had done so. I politely declined and attempted to go back to the conversation, which did not include her. Instead of taking “no” for an answer, she kept insisting and, eventually, another one joined her.

Their insistence kept the discussion from proceeding, and began to border on harassment. Acting as the group’s representative, she insisted that I had no business taking up their time if I didn’t intend to buy a round of drinks. I asked her if she was a drink pimp, since she was attempting to extract a drink from me as the price of conversation with her friends. But not even the insult stopped her and not one of the ladies spoke against the drink pimpin’. My fraternity brother informed me that they had insisted that he pay for a round as well, which I had already surmised. I decided that since “no” wasn’t good enough, perhaps any old answer would do—even an experiment in social behavior.

I gave a simple reply to the demands: “Order whatever you like.” I knew that some would take it as a “yes,” but I also made certain that I didn’t say anything about paying--I just told them they could order whatever they wanted.

Immediately following my reply, I moved on to another group of people. The ladies secured their drinks, and began to move as well, but not before sending the waitress my way with the check.

Now, I had two choices: I could have paid nearly seventy dollars for alcohol for six people I didn’t know and didn’t offer anything to, or I could have remained consistent. I chose consistency and informed the waitress that I never made an offer to pay for anything and that she should pursue the people who were actually enjoying the drinks.

Of course, the women were mortified, as revealed by the looks on their faces.

I decided to pay for drinks for the two ladies I was talking to. I knew that would dig into the remainder. I also knew that they would then help point the waitress in the direction of their "friends." They didn't want to pay for their own drinks, so I knew they wouldn't pay for their friends. And if they didn't want to pay for their friends, why would I?

Needless to say, there was a mad scramble as the broke drink pimps counted nickels and pennies to pay for drinks they never would have ordered on their own. An expensive lesson, but hopefully, a lesson learned.

The one with the really bad weave also had a really bad attitude. She came back to me later and called me a cheap punk for not paying for the drinks. I laughed at her and admonished that she should stop drink pimpin' since she was obviously a bad drink whore, and that she should at least inform men when they approach her to talk, that the meter is running.

Sadly, the story traveled the nation and eventually came back to me. These nasty drink pimps put my integrity to the question, telling anyone who would listen that I was too cheap to pay for drinks, but they never let anyone know that they were basically whoring their time for drinks and got caught out there.

For the women who will hurl accusations of sexism, ask yourself how you would respond if a man insisted you buy a drink for him as the price of his conversation and company. Silly, isn’t it?

The moral of the story is that even if you think that it is "traditional," "old fashioned," or whatever else, it's still a good idea to wait until a man offers before you insist that he spend money on you.

I have absolutely no problem buying a drink for a woman if I so desire, but there is no obligation and I won’t be pressed into service.

I refuse to be a drink trick, and I will always refuse to do business with drink pimps.


Darryl James is an award-winning author and is now a relationship coach, providing pragmatic advice for loving and living in today's world. James’ latest book, “Bridging The Black Gender Gap,” is the basis of his lectures and seminars. Previous installments of this column can now be viewed at www.bridgecolumn.com. James can be reached at djames@theblackgendergap.com.

Personally I think now women are able to generate their income they are able to purchase their own drinks, so guys shouldn't be expected to pay for their drinks / movie tickets. (if a guy wants to that is his decission) Anyway I think it's great what the guy who wrote this did (if it is true)... but personally I wouldn't even have paid one single drink.

 

[McLaren]

Niether would I.

I'm supposed to pay for drinks of six women I don't know just so I could stay with them?

Sorry honey, you're not worth $20 if that's your attitude.

 

[ledhed]

If you want to get laid you buy drinks simple supply and demand .

 

[sukerkin]

I'm from a very religious, 'old fashioned', 'polite society', background, so I was brought up with the social 'rules' from the days when women didn't have to work for a living if they didn't want to.

Because of this, if I can afford to, I always like to offer to buy for the others who are sharing my table - however, that is regardless of what sex they are. Plus, it is part of the 'contract' that the next round passes to another.

To be in the situation that the fellow Mr. Socks quotes seems distinctly iniquitous to me and I agree with the general idea that, these days, a lady should not automatically expect that a man will fund her night-out. If nothing else, that's simply bad manners.

I'm not saying that I've never been 'drink pimped' but it was my choice to allow such 'sponsorship' as the ladies in question were either broke or interesting or both .

 

[TheCracker]

The sort of women who expect drinks, meals etc to be bought for them are generally not the sort of women who would interest me. I would quite happily pay for the drinks myself, but it would be my decision, I still like to act like a gentleman - open doors, give up seats etc (although i do draw the line at placing my jacket over a puddle for a women to walk over) and i would usually offer to pay for the meal/drinks first, but I think in this day and age where women can earn as much as men, the sort of women who want drinks bought for them are the sort who want to be 'kept' women - not an attractive quality in my eyes.

 

[sicbeing]

Good guys FTW, gg!

I wouldn't have paid for a single drink either, but then again I refuse to go to clubs/bars for that reason alone, that drinks are way too expensive and most of the girls there are stupid whores, whether they sleep with you or not (drink whores, food whores, sex whores, or attention whores). That, and I hate clubs anyway.

 

[Smoke_U_24/7]

Most women in this country were raised in the culture and environment that Sukerkin described, and now they think that the traditional way of courtship is still relevant in this world and won't piss of guy's, but when they actually start to practice the teachings of their mothers and father's, they get a rude awakening. In this world we all know it's survival of the fittest, no matter what species you are, and most women will do whatever it takes to survive.
Personally, I would pay for the drink for the woman/en I'd want to have sex with, but if she has a weave and a bad attitude, well I think everyone knows what I'll do, 'cause every other guy will do the same thing.

 

[vladimir]

i always let me boyfriend by the drinks.

 

[Funkshen]

Me and my girlfriend actually share expenses.
Only if she offers though. If she has no desire to pay for whatever we are enjoying (and the reason is usually due to not having much money, or that it is simply my turn), then the expense is ofcoarse passed onto me. But i have no problem wth that because i love her. I would do the same to my friends etc.

This guy's situation is different, when he is more or less being "forced" to buy drinks for lady's he has no personal relationship with. IT IS the way of "society" and its wrong. I congratulate him for what he did. BUT if one of the lady's would so politely return the favour, then i would ofcoarse do it.

 

[LoudMusic]

The things I choose to do for my wife may have initiated because of old fashioned ways, but I personally do them because I want to. I do the same things for my male friends as well. They're signs of courtesy and friendship to me.

 

[FoolKiller]

The things I choose to do for my wife may have initiated because of old fashioned ways, but I personally do them because I want to. I do the same things for my male friends as well. They're signs of courtesy and friendship to me.

I think paying for your wife and paying for someone you just met are two totally different things. Even if you have separate accounts the money is still essentially coming from the same place. I pay when my wife and I go out but it isn't uncommon for me to ask her if she has a few dollars or for her to pay the whole amount just because my cash flow is running low. This is usually something I set up ahead of time to make sure we can actually afford what we are about to eat. But in the end, whether the cash is from her purse or my wallet it is still the same pool of money that the bills must be paid from.

Now, back when I was dating I would pay if I asked them out but if they asked me out I would start asking questions about monetary amounts for whatever we were doing and 90% of the time they would say, "I'm taking you out. Don't worry about it."

I only ever dated one girl who felt that I should pay for everything and that relationship ended not long after the first time I had to explain that I was out of money. Who needs that anyway? It pretty much seems to me that if a woman wants a man to pay all the time and won't date him otherwise that she will be high maintenance and isn't worth his time.

If guys are coughing up money for drinks and dinner just because they are trying to sleep with the woman I believe the line between that and prostitution has become very slim and the prostitute might be cheaper. I fully agree with the author of the article that they are drink whores, especially if they are purposely trying to let on that if you let her have fun at your expense then you can sleep together. Instead of paying with cash you are paying with goods and services. It is a thin line and the price is more than I am willing to pay anyway.

 

[Gabkicks]

things will never be equal between men and women. Ladies get free drinks. we die earlier, pay for more things, and are on he front lines in war.

 

[stumpydino]

as far as i know women still get lower wages here in uk

 

[Gabkicks]

lol, thats an interesting fact i did not know...

 

[FoolKiller]

as far as i know women still get lower wages here in uk

This reviews a book, written by a former NOW board member, about how the wage difference is only slightly due to discrimination and more about lifestyle choices between men and women. For his research he would take groups of 100 men and 100 women and ask them if they would be willing to meet certain job criteria for higher wages. The criteria were typical of higher paying jobs, such as working outside all the time, manual labor, 60-80 hour work weeks, etc. and he found that 3-5 out of 100 women would say yes while 15-20 out of 100 men would say yes.

He believes that these lifestyle choice differences account for most of the wage difference and discrimination is only a small part of the story. Needless to say he is no longer a part of NOW.