I would love to see this feature in GT5 but if its not there its not a catastrophe for me. Anyway I was wondering, how hard is it really to add this into a game? In my mind all there is to it is changing up the lighting conditions and making some lights turn on at night. But if it was as easy as I'm seem to be making it out to be, wouldn't more games have it? The only 2 console games I can think of would be GRID and Le Mans 24 hours from years ago. Does anyone know more on the subject?
How hard is it to implement Day/Night change?
- Thread starter tlongman
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- UK
Pull across the curtains and turn off the lights.
Probably nothing like as simple as it looks. The in-game sun doesn't really light up the whole track
Then you've got working headlights, etc.
We've had night-time racing (SSR5), but the difficult bit is the transition of Day/Night and the several different stages between the two of them.
Probably nothing like as simple as it looks. The in-game sun doesn't really light up the whole track
Then you've got working headlights, etc.We've had night-time racing (SSR5), but the difficult bit is the transition of Day/Night and the several different stages between the two of them.
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i would love to drive on the ring in the rain in a RUF
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Changing all of the lighting and shadow effects (which are already very well done in GT5P), as well as creating a seamless transition from night to day during some of the longer endurance races, is not an easy thing to do.
The thing about having a day/night cycle is that it would only be necessary for a handful of races. As much as I would love to see the sun rise at Le Mans, not having it isn't heartbreaking for me because it would be used so sparingly.
The thing about having a day/night cycle is that it would only be necessary for a handful of races. As much as I would love to see the sun rise at Le Mans, not having it isn't heartbreaking for me because it would be used so sparingly.
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- Maggot666PL
Hm, we already had a 24h cycle in GRiD (LeMans only) + the changing weather in TDU (although it's very simple and doesn't affect the lightning very much). If they have night, evening and morning lightning effects created and polished, then the transition itself is "just" a mater of scripting it, causing the changes. Shouldn't be a big deal.
Of course changeable weather is quite a bit more complicated, but it's already been done too - Rally Trophy had some stunning (considering the fact that it was 2001!) weather effects. I'm not sure, but I think that CMR2.0 had some cool weather changes too. However asphalt racing creates a major hurdle - drying/damping road surface (as the events in mentioned games were scripted). Big challenge, especially when you would want the cars to contribute to the process itself.
Of course changeable weather is quite a bit more complicated, but it's already been done too - Rally Trophy had some stunning (considering the fact that it was 2001!) weather effects. I'm not sure, but I think that CMR2.0 had some cool weather changes too. However asphalt racing creates a major hurdle - drying/damping road surface (as the events in mentioned games were scripted). Big challenge, especially when you would want the cars to contribute to the process itself.
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- It/It
- GTP_TheCracker
Rockstar manage to implement it well in the GTA games, can't see that PD wouldn't manage it. We've already seen day time, night time, fading day light/early morning and raining races in previous games. The only races where 'dynamic time of day' is going to be noticeable is in the endurance races anyway.
dancardesigner
(Banned)
- 822
- dancardesigner
So what is the difference in the way a scene is lit in GT5 as opposed to crysis, where TOD can be adjusted on the fly. How much more processing power would a dynamic lighting system take.?
If anyone has an aticle explaining the difference in the way they are rendered it would be much appreciated
If anyone has an aticle explaining the difference in the way they are rendered it would be much appreciated
True, but even for 5 minutes races it would be nice to have different lightning conditions when "farming" the same track for credits
Anyway, rFactor on PC handles the night/day transition quite nicely even on a low-end PC and is now 4 years old. Nothing the PS3 can't do, but of course it all depends on how much power is left after the rendering, the physics computation, the AI, etc.
- 2,948
- Austria
- GTP_SnowCrash
Yes, we did have a race "at night", but as far as I remember, the lights on the cars didn't really have an effect. The whole track was lit with permanent installations. In a Le Mans or Nürburgring 24h race most of the track is not lit, which means that the light emanating from the car's headlights has to be accurately modeled. I imagine that to be a tad more difficult than day-time lighting, where the sun has a completely different effect. (I'm not an expert on lighting though)
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- markymark8609
- 1,096
- Wattsterplus
- XML Binging Language?
Wipers. Different speeds? Upgradeable?
- 101
- markymark8609
Is there really any need? Hopefully it's just automatic and is fast enough to clear the screen, and what could you upgrade? CF ones?
- 706
In an endurance race, you're racing on slicks, and all of a sudden it starts raining and so you take a pit the next lap and change into rain tires. Wouldn't that be awesome and strategic?
reminds me of Porsche Unleashed
reminds me of Porsche Unleashed
- 8,460
- Rockay City
If sunlight comes from (a) static lightsource(s), much of the lighting/shadows can be calculated in advance (compile time, not realtime). It would limit dynamic lighting to the moving things. With dynamic lightsources you must calculate all lighting and shadows at realtime. Depending how complex the lighting (e.g. amount of lightsources, interaction between them) is (or how simple) this may take a lot (or not much at all) processing power.
Since we don't know exactly how scenes are lit in GT5 it's hard to determine what the impact would be. As opposed to Crysis, where we know how a scene is lit since we can open it up in an editor. It's not just a matter of the engine supporting it, the complexity of the scene is also a huge factor (e.g. if the engine supports it, but your scene has only one light, it may not have a huge impact, but if your scene has one thousand lights, it may have an enormous impact).
As far as processing power, it depends on how well it's done. If they went the simple way (a la GTR2), it wouldn't take up too much, and the game would go on.
But GT5 looks a million times better. The techniques used for rendering are worlds apart, and the outcome is expected to be (heck, many would demand it be) absolutely epic.
That said the shadows from trackside objects in GT5P is a good start, because it means they can use those shadows more, as opposed to texturing shadows on the track (and you'd end up with the same shadows in the dark if they did that). The lighting effects are done well enough in the day too, but they're still very reliant on the sun just to keep things visible. On the other hand, the tunnel at HSR looks gorgeous, and it shows they can do things without the sun, even if it is just a well-lit, consistently-lit small piece of track. Then the HDR kicks in and we've got a nice piece of eye-candy.
So yeah, they probably could do it. They've got a fairly good base to do it in, even in GT5P.
But GT5 looks a million times better. The techniques used for rendering are worlds apart, and the outcome is expected to be (heck, many would demand it be) absolutely epic.
That said the shadows from trackside objects in GT5P is a good start, because it means they can use those shadows more, as opposed to texturing shadows on the track (and you'd end up with the same shadows in the dark if they did that). The lighting effects are done well enough in the day too, but they're still very reliant on the sun just to keep things visible. On the other hand, the tunnel at HSR looks gorgeous, and it shows they can do things without the sun, even if it is just a well-lit, consistently-lit small piece of track. Then the HDR kicks in and we've got a nice piece of eye-candy.
So yeah, they probably could do it. They've got a fairly good base to do it in, even in GT5P.
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- balang_479
It has to be, no way am I doing another 24h with 24h day like...! ridiculous!!!!!
- 255
- the fatadder
I really hope that they have done the transition, but to be honest I think there are many more important things that would need to be implemented first, rather than a feature which is only really relevant for a couple of races. (Though it is vitally important for those couple of races.)
My thinking is that if they dont come out at TGS and say we have day/night transition. I cant see it being in the game
My thinking is that if they dont come out at TGS and say we have day/night transition. I cant see it being in the game
- 1,702
- balang_479
I really hope that they have done the transition, but to be honest I think there are many more important things that would need to be implemented first, rather than a feature which is only really relevant for a couple of races. (Though it is vitally important for those couple of races.)
My thinking is that if they dont come out at TGS and say we have day/night transition. I cant see it being in the game
You say a couple of races, but it could be used in every race, some at morning some at dusk... and even short races can be held at night, it would be awesome a good way not to waste an insane feature of just a few races... plus with weather we could get a unique race everytime we start one....
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- NC
- silent_killer59
I think it'd be cool if you raced at the local time where the track is. say you've started the 24 'Ring race- its 11 AM in Germany- the day would start out in the morning- then of course, 10 hours later, you'd be racing in the dark with the headlights and such.
But on the other hand, that could pose a problem since not all PS3 GT5 owners have online...... hmmmm
On the short races thouhg, I really don't care if it doesn't change, just make it day, night, dusk, dawn, whatever.
But on the other hand, that could pose a problem since not all PS3 GT5 owners have online...... hmmmm
On the short races thouhg, I really don't care if it doesn't change, just make it day, night, dusk, dawn, whatever.
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Depends on how the devloper implements it.
When Bizarre Creations made PGR3 / 4, they used a different set of textures for day and night time - hence why the choice of day / night tracks was reduced in PGR4 as the extra tracks meant they couldn't fit them on the disc.
Criterion did it differently with Burnout Paradise - they did it correctly using a sun as a light source. If GT5 contains a cycle that's anything like BP's I'll be more than happy - the only ything m,issing from BP is streetlighting, but generally it's excellent - I think the effect with early morning mist is superb.
When Bizarre Creations made PGR3 / 4, they used a different set of textures for day and night time - hence why the choice of day / night tracks was reduced in PGR4 as the extra tracks meant they couldn't fit them on the disc.
Criterion did it differently with Burnout Paradise - they did it correctly using a sun as a light source. If GT5 contains a cycle that's anything like BP's I'll be more than happy - the only ything m,issing from BP is streetlighting, but generally it's excellent - I think the effect with early morning mist is superb.
It's not so much difficult as it is a trade off.
If you're going to do full-on night racing then you'll find that the vastly increased number of light sources (headlights + fixed lights) would effect performance quite severely. This outweighs the only positive thing from a performance point of view during night racing - that you can (dynamically) reduce the draw distance a little without anyone noticing
Similar situation with weather. Add all of those particle effects plus extra reflections in extreme wet races and suddenly your framerate will take a serious knock.
If you're going to do full-on night racing then you'll find that the vastly increased number of light sources (headlights + fixed lights) would effect performance quite severely. This outweighs the only positive thing from a performance point of view during night racing - that you can (dynamically) reduce the draw distance a little without anyone noticing
Similar situation with weather. Add all of those particle effects plus extra reflections in extreme wet races and suddenly your framerate will take a serious knock.
Leonidae
(Banned)
- 6,881
- GTP_Leonidae_MFT
It's not so much difficult as it is a trade off.
If you're going to do full-on night racing then you'll find that the vastly increased number of light sources (headlights + fixed lights) would effect performance quite severely. This outweighs the only positive thing from a performance point of view during night racing - that you can (dynamically) reduce the draw distance a little without anyone noticing
Similar situation with weather. Add all of those particle effects plus extra reflections in extreme wet races and suddenly your framerate will take a serious knock.
This, and then there would be reflections from other cars, reflections from roadsurface, reflections from everything, and shadows as well..
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It depends how the game's lighting engine works. If it already has realistic dynamic lighting, then its not hard to implement day/night transitions.
If, however, the lighting is currently static or done with tricks such as varying textures, or the engine is incapable of handling many different lighting sources, it could be very difficult to implement. Driving at night means all the cars need to have headlights that illuminate the track, as well as track side lights, tail lights, reflections, etc, this means the game engine needs to be able to deal with many lighting sources at one time. Then you need shadows that move not only on cars, but also on environments, and ideally shadows being cast be multiple lighting sources at once. If the engine isn't capable of that already, it could be quite difficult to implement.
If, however, the lighting is currently static or done with tricks such as varying textures, or the engine is incapable of handling many different lighting sources, it could be very difficult to implement. Driving at night means all the cars need to have headlights that illuminate the track, as well as track side lights, tail lights, reflections, etc, this means the game engine needs to be able to deal with many lighting sources at one time. Then you need shadows that move not only on cars, but also on environments, and ideally shadows being cast be multiple lighting sources at once. If the engine isn't capable of that already, it could be quite difficult to implement.
