How to drive Formula C?

[Gregow]

Howdy!

I got this Project Cars thingy about a week ago. Got meself a G29 wheel for the ‘puter and now I’ve finished the first beginner championships plus Clio Cup, moving on to Formula C.

Problem is, I can’t figure how to drive these cars fast. Seems like they don’t want to turn in, and mid to late corner the back comes charging like a rabid ‘coon.

So far I’ve figured carrying more speed into the corner helps the turn in with more downforce, and then you can balance the car with the throttle. Except, it’s hard to control and I’m drifting too much to be fast. Think 2.10 at Brno is the best I’ve managed.

I don’t want to play with the setup just yet. I don’t think it’s a good idea to engineer away drivers problems. Default setup should be good for much better lap times. Plus, some of the setups I’ve seen are ridiculous - like making the car soft as a family saloon.

Do you have any advice for driving these things properly? Like, how they’re actually supposed to be driven? I might add that I have similar issues with the 911 GT3 (road version).

 

[Beezer215]

Unfortunately you're probably going to have to play with the setup and then some. The Formula C cars are a handful and you're not the only one having issues. To get consistency, I believe I did have to go with the bar all the way down on the rear, full downforce on rear and the kicker that works is using wet tyres on the rear (a well as other adjustments like tyre pressure or whatnot). I know it doesn't feel right doing it but it does plant the car. Other than that, if this isn't an option, you can also just lower the AI level for this series.
This is one of those areas in this game where the AI level just doesn't match the players car. The can blast through corners. They can whip around wet tracks and all while you're just trying to keep your car straight.

 

[Gregow]

Unfortunately you're probably going to have to play with the setup and then some. The Formula C cars are a handful and you're not the only one having issues. To get consistency, I believe I did have to go with the bar all the way down on the rear, full downforce on rear and the kicker that works is using wet tyres on the rear (a well as other adjustments like tyre pressure or whatnot). I know it doesn't feel right doing it but it does plant the car. Other than that, if this isn't an option, you can also just lower the AI level for this series.
This is one of those areas in this game where the AI level just doesn't match the players car. The can blast through corners. They can whip around wet tracks and all while you're just trying to keep your car straight.

I had similar problems with Clio Cup at first. AI was maybe 10 seconds faster at Brands Hatch Indy, while I was struggling to control the car. Soon realised I was driving it wrong, adjusted and practiced until reaching low 52's on that track with default setup (except for lower fuel).
Formula C is more challenging but I'm sure it can be figured out. 10th place on the leaderboards for Formula C at Brno is on a default setup, and that's around 10 seconds faster than me.
I don't want to start adjusting the setup before I know what I'm doing with the car. That's just masking my shortcomings with something that feels more comfortable and familiar.

 

[IfAndOr]

Just wondering if you've tried both the default setups, loose and stable, @Gregow? I've not driven the Formula C much to know if they make much difference.

 

[Beezer215]

They make a little bit of difference but the rear end still rips out of place with either. Kinda bad, It's bad.
I'm in the process of trying to complete that career stage right now and it's taxing to say the least. (Not trying to lower AI much or use wet tires in the rear which is an easy work around.)

 

[slthree]

The Formula C car was impossible for me until I found help from sloppyshades

Look him up as he's on this site as well as the project cars forums. His setups have saved me numerous times, and that includes the Clio cup

EDIT: There's another guy whose also really, really good. I invited him to this site but I haven't seen him here yet

His name is Jun Choi. Just search for "Project Cars 2 Jun Choi" on YouTube. He doesn't talk. He just races and shows you his tunes.

In my experience, his tunes have been game-saving!

 

[mattikake]

There's not a single car in the game I use on default setup. I find all default setups disgusting and they all have a dumb slow steering ratio which makes some hairpins impossible to get round as my g29 runs out of lock and makes on the limit steering inputs too slow.

You will need to get a very long test session and play with the setups to see what they do. Change one thing at a time and drive a few laps. Repeat until you get something you like. No replacement for hard graft.

The FC is a very fast responding car. Maybe the fastest in the game ime. This makes it feel twitchy. The setups I use for this car are nothing like the default. But get it right and it's a very raggable car which gives confidence to push it on the limit. Ideally these cars need a sort of mild 4 wheel drift around most corners so that's what you should aim for in setup. I can get within 1 sec and closer, to all the WR laps at the tracks i've tried.

From what you're getting it sounds like you need to stiffen the front, soften the rear on suspension, rollbars, diff even add viscous lsd. If you're still struggling with the quickness of the responsiveness try increasing the rear toe to 0.8 or higher. This will make you slower on straights, increase tyre wear/heating but it will make the car more controllable until you get confidence in it to lower the toe to get lap time.

As with all downforce cars confidence is everything - the faster you go, the faster you CAN go...

Edit: btw I think I can to 2mins flat at Brno but it's been a while since I tried so could be wrong!

 

[Gregow]

The Formula C car was impossible for me until I found help from sloppyshades

Look him up as he's on this site as well as the project cars forums. His setups have saved me numerous times, and that includes the Clio cup

EDIT: There's another guy whose also really, really good. I invited him to this site but I haven't seen him here yet

His name is Jun Choi. Just search for "Project Cars 2 Jun Choi" on YouTube. He doesn't talk. He just races and shows you his tunes.

In my experience, his tunes have been game-saving!

I'm sorry if I seem like an arrogant prick now but this is actually a good example of trying to engineer driver errors. Not that he drives bad, because he does not. However...

I checked his video on Knockhill with the Clio and I'm pretty darn sure that setup is slower than the default. It's definitely not faster. I can make similar times with a very close to default setup, and I drive like **** on Knockhill. Mr. Sloppy is a better driver, but I bet if he took the default setup with fuel for 10 laps or so he could go 1-2 seconds faster.

 

[slthree]

No worries. I understand what you're saying.

All I know is that when I needed setups desperately, his setups saved me.

You are likely a better driver than me so you may be fine with the default setup but I couldn't control the car with a default setup

I'm sorry if I seem like an arrogant prick now but this is actually a good example of trying to engineer driver errors. Not that he drives bad, because he does not. However...

I checked his video on Knockhill with the Clio and I'm pretty darn sure that setup is slower than the default. It's definitely not faster. I can make similar times with a very close to default setup, and I drive like **** on Knockhill. Mr. Sloppy is a better driver, but I bet if he took the default setup with fuel for 10 laps or so he could go 1-2 seconds faster.

 

[Gregow]

No worries. I understand what you're saying.

All I know is that when I needed setups desperately, his setups saved me.

You are likely a better driver than me so you may be fine with the default setup but I couldn't control the car with a default setup

Well, I’m not a good driver. That’s not me trying to be humble, it’s just a fact. A few times I’ve tried to race people, who are good on a national level, in karts, and I’m not even close despite the fact of being insanely competitive in racing (which is on reason I stay away from it - I would die or hurt myself very badly).

Anyhow, my point is not about driving skill. Or rather, perhaps about the right driving skill. The Clio, for example, is special in that it’s FWD and that’s very different from RWD. Especially RWD with mid engine. And most sim racers tend to go for the RWD cars.

You can’t drive those the same. Completely different beasts. And even if you have experience with FWD, a fast FWD setup is much different from a comfy daily driver. So it’s no wonder if drivers used to RWD have a tough time with FWD. I think that’s pretty much why the Clio has gotten a bad rap.

Still, I also find that an good argument for not messing with the setup before knowing the car intimately.

But when you know the car, then you’ve got a solid foundation.

Ps. Please excuse my bad writing and grammar. It’s Wednesday and I’m half Finnish, so I’m at least half drunk.

 

[IfAndOr]

Ps. Please excuse my bad writing and grammar. It’s Wednesday and I’m half Finnish, so I’m at least half drunk

Made me chuckle. 👍


I very rarely use anything other than the defaults. I always like/try to adjust to the car whenever possible. And when not possible I move onto the next car, there's plenty to choose from.

 

[Gregow]

Made me chuckle. 👍


I very rarely use anything other than the defaults. I always like/try to adjust to the car whenever possible. And when not possible I move onto the next car, there's plenty to choose from.

Well, I bet I could drink Kimi under the table, I just wish I could drive at least half as well as him.

In career mode I’ve gone for driving until the AI owns me in qualifying (which is very different from racing, somehow), and then go full on Aspbergers until I own the race.

I’m not so much concerned with winning, but rather winning with good driving. For me that’s the greatest pleasure. When I feel like I can do great laps consistently, and win.

I also love the analysis of progressively becoming better. Like, you push and push and push for smaller and smaller differences. That makes me cream my pants.

 

[fernandito]

The first problem is first and foremost the slick tyres. Don't use them unless tarmac is hot, and even then make sure you bring them to temperature.

Use sport tyres when tarmac is not hot enough; bring that rear ride height down (this is something most folks forget about); stiffen all springs and dumpers, and get that power ramp angle locked at 35º-40º-45º or so as well as locking the decel diff. too at 25º-30º

You're good to go now with FC.

 

[bleeder]

It's been a while since I drove that car but I tuned it to behave mostly the way I wanted. No one here has mentioned this so I'll go ahead; as well as trying the above advice, try increasing the engine braking to max (10?) and you should immediately notice a difference going through corners. More stability and less erratic oversteer off throttle. Then lower until you find a good setting. Maybe only a few notches. Really helped me get the rear end behaving more predictably.

 

[Gregow]

Here’s a video I made of driving the Formula C at Brno. My best time is 2:06 flat and I can keep that consistently within 2-3 hundredths. Trying to push past that I usually end up being faster on some sections but slower on others. I’m sure there’s time to be gained but I’m not there yet.

 

[mattikake]

Usual disclaimer that I'm not an alien; but watching that you need to use a lot more of the track. Also it looks like you're not carrying nearly enough corner speed and you have an understeery setup, which compounds the lack of corner speed.

 

[killerjimbag]

Usual disclaimer that I'm not an alien; but watching that you need to use a lot more of the track. Also it looks like you're not carrying nearly enough corner speed and you have an understeery setup, which compounds the lack of corner speed.

Can I ask a question? How the hell can you give advice on a game that you have slagged and said was bugged, terrible etc? I mean your posting history speaks for itself. So either own up or please stop the 🤬. Its tiresome.

 

[mattikake]

Here's a couple of laps in the FC at Brno. No practice on an old setup. So a couple of laps to work out how it needs to be driven. There's an overseer twitch in turn 1 and I missed a couple of apexes but you get the idea. You can see how the car is set up to turn more aggressively and use more of the track. I'd take a second off that with a few more laps.

 

[bleeder]

Here's a couple of laps in the FC at Brno. No practice on an old setup. So a couple of laps to work out how it needs to be driven. There's an overseer twitch in turn 1 and I missed a couple of apexes but you get the idea. You can see how the car is set up to turn more aggressively and use more of the track. I'd take a second off that with a few more laps.

And you tweaked the gear ratios too. Which helps a lot

 

[Sick Cylinder]

I'm normally a bit sceptical when I read threads which imply that a default setup is rubbish, because I try them and don't notice a problem, however I tried the Formula C (default loose) this morning at Brno - it took me 6 attempts to get past the third corner. I found I had to complete all braking before turning in otherwise the car would spin round.

I then hopped in a Lotus 25 to see if any progress had been made in racing car design in the last 55 years - and the answer, according to SMS is no! - lap time virtually the same!

 

[mattikake]

Ime the lotus 25 is closer in overall laptime to a FR. The FC should murder it everywhere. So progress, yes loads but on default setup, perhaps not.

With high df cars you shouldn't really be trail-braking because the df grip should hugely override any pitch angle gains through braking. And you set them stiff anyway to make the df work better (noticed the rear diffuser on the FC?) which will lessen forward weight transfer even less. So this is why i think sms have set the default setup to turn-in on coast, not the brakes. But I don't think the FC is quite high df enough for that to work for effective laptime gains.

There's bound to be an alien who can make the sms setup work but it's so twitchy it's simply not worth bothering with. Even if you master a lap, when it comes to dynamic line changes while racing, you're bound to enter the unknown and spin. Your time is better spent playing with the setup than trying to change your driving style to something that may be beyond your ability or it just too "unnatural" for the individual.

Edit: the setup above is completely different to the default in every single aspect iirc, so that you can turn on the brakes etc. and bury the throttle. I'll post it up sometime. But god knows when I set this one because it's almost backwards to what i would do today. If fact it was so surprisingly different to even myself that I immediately went to try a more recent setup (when I go to load a recent sugo setup at the end of the vid. Didn't realise I recorded that bit too. Heh. The next hot lap, I lapped 0.1s faster on a diametrically opposed setup...).

 

[Mr Grumpy]

The only issue I find with both stable & loose default setups is the engine breaking setting. I find it far to harsh in this game so it gets turned off/up. I'd rather trial brake manually either with the wheel or pad.