I just realised that GM is dominant and needs to be stopped - the Microsoft of cars.

[1X83Z]

I was sitting around today, as I often do, sticking pencils in my mouth, and I realised that GM makes a good portion of the minivans for sale in the United States.
- Buick Rendezvous (GM)
- Chevrolet Astro (GM)
- Chevrolet Venture (GM)
- Chrysler Town and Country
- Chrysler Voyager
- Dodge Caravan
- Ford Windstar
- GMC Safari (GM)
- Honda Odyssey
- Kia Sedona
- Mazda MPV
- Oldsmobile Silhouette (GM)
- Pontiac Aztek (GM)
- Pontiac Montana (GM)
- Toyota Sienna

This is seven of fifteen, or 47%. Yes, that's right - GM produces 47% of all minivans for sale in the United States. Factor in cargo vans and the total moves to nine of nineteen (a slightly higher percentage). This is too much! I suppose that GM buys into the 'if you make a good portion of cars in a segment, then you've got a good chance of someone buying your product' idea, but can anyone tell me the true difference between the Safari and the Astro? Or the Montana and Venture? Can't GM just be happy with three (Astro, Venture, Rendezvous) vans, or maybe ONE with a larger model range like a normal company? When was the last time you saw a Silhouette on the road, anyway?

These questions must be answered. NOW!

Moving on to the full-size car segment (under $40,000), GM produces a total of nine of eighteen. In other words, GM is manufacturing HALF the segment.

Does anyone else think that GM needs a bit of consolidaton, like now?

 

[duo17]

:thumbsup: I agree. GM needs to stick to their own cars and not everyone else's. The one thing I don't understand is why they considered Microsoft a monopoly, but that's a different thread.

OA

 

[Sertsa]

You can do the same thing with mid-sized sedans. Honda makes one or two of those (if you count the luxury-market Acura), so does Toyota, but GM makes a plethora of the things. It's probably why they tried to dump Oldsmobile but seem to be holding off on it.

I doubt GM's making 47% of minivan brands gets them 47% of the market, though, but I don't know what the share is.

If you can, check out the most recent Car & Driver; there's an editorial on GM, it's string of CEOs and various troubles and mis-directions. It treats the new guy pretty positiveely, though.

 

[1mic]

aztek is not a van

 

[Joey D]

Hey GM deserves it I mean come on they have one of the best car companies out there. So what they make half the market in cars. Its completly different from Microsoft. There is a big choice in car but only one choice in Computer Software like that. Well thats my thoughts.

 

[1X83Z]

Originally posted by Sertsa
You can do the same thing with mid-sized sedans. Honda makes one or two of those (if you count the luxury-market Acura), so does Toyota, but GM makes a plethora of the things. It's probably why they tried to dump Oldsmobile but seem to be holding off on it.

I was going to use midsize sedans, but GM's share is much smaller in it - it does make quite a few midsize sedans, but there's a lot of midsize sedans for sale in the US (more than any other segment, in fact).

I doubt GM's making 47% of minivan brands gets them 47% of the market, though, but I don't know what the share is.

I agree - espeically because some of those minivans even the American public can see are total ****.

If you can, check out the most recent Car & Driver; there's an editorial on GM, it's string of CEOs and various troubles and mis-directions. It treats the new guy pretty positiveely, though.

Bob Lutz is their new guy and he's a big, big car guy which is exactly what GM needs rather than some geeky accountant-type. Unfortunately, he's a big fan of their new CTS, meaning that's what other new cars are going to look like, most likely.

Did anyone see the prototype design of the next-generation Malibu? It looks nice.

 

[1X83Z]

Originally posted by 1mic
aztek is not a van

Reasoning?

It's a van due to its styling and floorplan as well as the fact that it's built on rougly the same chassis with the Rendezvous, and styled generally in the same way. And the Rendezvous is the most minivan-like vehicle since the Caravan first came out.

 

[1X83Z]

Originally posted by streetracer780
Hey GM deserves it I mean come on they have one of the best car companies out there. So what they make half the market in cars. Its completly different from Microsoft. There is a big choice in car but only one choice in Computer Software like that. Well thats my thoughts.

I see your point, but understand - GM may have a lot of companies and a lot of money, but Toyota does just fine with two companies and a fraction of the money. Remember, GM, Chrysler, and Ford have lost more than 15% of the market share in the last 20 years even with more platform-sharing going on within the three companies. GM needs to downsize and eliminate redundant models such as the Savana, Safari, Silverado, all of Isuzu and Buick, etc.

 

[NASCARnut]

Yeah, I've always wondered why we need three or four companies making the same product. I mean c'mon, ones or two is enough.

Does anyone else think that the CTS, Rendevous, and Aztek are the ugliest thing on the road???

 

[1X83Z]

Originally posted by NASCARnut

Does anyone else think that the CTS, Rendevous, and Aztek are the ugliest thing on the road???

The CTS is bad - I don't understand why someone would choose a CTS over a 5-series BMW. The Aztek's okay (let the flaming begin) and the Rendezvous is not bad, but certainly not good.

 

[Rumple Foreskin]

Originally posted by M5Power
I was sitting around today, as I often do, sticking pencils in my mouth,

(insert your own jokes here)

 

[Robin2]

pencils are a metaphor for something else...

GM owns you doug.

 

[Hooligan]

Originally posted by M5Power
[...avoiding pencil jokes...avoiding pencil jokes...]
This is seven of fifteen, or 47%. Yes, that's right - GM produces 47% of all minivans for sale in the United States. Factor in cargo vans and the total moves to nine of nineteen (a slightly higher percentage). This is too much! I suppose that GM buys into the 'if you make a good portion of cars in a segment, then you've got a good chance of someone buying your product' idea, but can anyone tell me the true difference between the Safari and the Astro? Or the Montana and Venture? Can't GM just be happy with three (Astro, Venture, Rendezvous) vans, or maybe ONE with a larger model range like a normal company? When was the last time you saw a Silhouette on the road, anyway?
[...]
Does anyone else think that GM needs a bit of consolidaton, like now?

I think this is more like Chicken Little and the falling sky thing. GM makes crap cars. Americans love crap cars. Therefore, within the US, GM sells lots of crap cars, and thus they own half of many segments. But look at the situation in Europe: Renault and Peugot are making sales hands over fists. And it's similar in Japan. Like sells in like countries (or, rather, stupid is as stupid does).

When you look at the markets in question, these aren't really auto enthusiast markets. Most buyers want features, not excitement. They want a good bargain. In the US, GM is the best "bargain" when it comes to "features" (I call it, "you get what you pay for"). It used to be Ford, and it was probably Chrylser at one point, too.

And this is in no way comparable to Microsoft. M$ created a situation where, if it were an auto company, would force you to get new fuel, drive on new roads, and sit in a different seat depending on which model year you drove. Plus which, you wouldn't have much of a choice about your destinations, since some may not be MS-compatible. I think GM is far more forgiving in this respect....

 

[1X83Z]

Originally posted by Hooligan


I think this is more like Chicken Little and the falling sky thing. GM makes crap cars. Americans love crap cars. Therefore, within the US, GM sells lots of crap cars, and thus they own half of many segments. But look at the situation in Europe: Renault and Peugot are making sales hands over fists. And it's similar in Japan. Like sells in like countries (or, rather, stupid is as stupid does).

True, but in the European segment you talk about (I assume mid-large sedans and superminis/small cars) there's not a whole lot of companies in those segments to begin with. In Europe, it's Fiat, Peugeot, Renault, Ford, and a small few others (not counting Suzuki, Daewoo, Hyundai which no one with any sense purchases). America has one of the largest amounts of models (growing more every year) and one of (if not the) most companies trying to sell their product here, yet two of the largest (in terms of money) segments are dominated totally by one manufacturer. Impressive.

When you look at the markets in question, these aren't really auto enthusiast markets. Most buyers want features, not excitement. They want a good bargain. In the US, GM is the best "bargain" when it comes to "features" (I call it, "you get what you pay for"). It used to be Ford, and it was probably Chrylser at one point, too.

Fair point - and any person sees that GM gives you quite a bit of features for a fair price, and the markets in question aren't auto enthusiast markets so this logic applies well.

 

[Hooligan]

Originally posted by M5Power
True, but in the European segment you talk about (I assume mid-large sedans and superminis/small cars) there's not a whole lot of companies in those segments to begin with. In Europe, it's Fiat, Peugeot, Renault, Ford, and a small few others (not counting Suzuki, Daewoo, Hyundai which no one with any sense purchases).[/B]

It's not as many as you think: VAG (VW, Skoda, SEAT), FIAT (w/Alfa Romeo), and PAS (Peugot, Citroen, Renault, Nissan). IMO, that's comparable to GM (Pontiac, Chevrolet, etc.).

America has one of the largest amounts of models (growing more every year) and one of (if not the) most companies trying to sell their product here, yet two of the largest (in terms of money) segments are dominated totally by one manufacturer. Impressive.

America actually has far less models than Europe. From what I can tell, just about everything from the US is available in Europe (not that they're clamoring for SUVs), and then add on PAS & the larger Japanese market (WRX STi et. al.). While it does seem that the US market is leaning heavily on GM, could you really blame them when Chrylser flat-out stinks these days and Ford has more recalls than Martha Stewart's income tax records?

I remember times when Ford could do no wrong. Not recently, but it comes and goes. Microsoft...ugh...now that's another matter. Don't get me started; my fingers would be numb.

 

[Zero]

Originally posted by M5Power
I was sitting around today, as I often do, sticking pencils in my mouth, and I realised that GM makes a good portion of the minivans for sale in the United States.
- Buick Rendezvous (GM)
- Chevrolet Astro (GM)
- Chevrolet Venture (GM)
- Chrysler Town and Country
- Chrysler Voyager
- Dodge Caravan
- Ford Windstar
- GMC Safari (GM)
- Honda Odyssey
- Kia Sedona
- Mazda MPV
- Oldsmobile Silhouette (GM)
- Pontiac Aztek (GM)
- Pontiac Montana (GM)
- Toyota Sienna

OK Doug....so GM produces the highest percentage of minivans but which company sells the most? Wouldnt that be Chrysler? With their awesome array of 3 minivans....

 

[1X83Z]

Right - that's why GM needs to cut back. They produce one hell of a lot of these things, yet they don't get a very good return on what they make (For 47% of the market, they might sell 30% of all the vans. Probably less.).

I'd bet that Honda gets the best return rather than Chrysler, though - the Odyssey sells like a fiend.

 

[Zero]

As of late yes, but a few years ago all I saw on the roads of Atlanta were Caravans and Town and Country's. Just in the past few years the Odyssey has been selling like crazy, hell if I wanted a minivan I'd take that 200hp V-6 that is in my car right now

 

[1X83Z]

Yeah - Chrysler still sells a lot of minivans (more than Honda, but they have more for sale). I'd rather have a Grand Caravan than an Odyssey. But I'm biased against Honda. Though I did like the Legend Coupe, while we're on Legends.

 

[Zero]

Heh, around here Legend Coupe 6 speed with version 2 engines only cost $10,500!!!!!!!! 5 years ago when my dad bought his, it cost 20large and mine when we got it 3 years ago cost 10g.

 

[The Vanishing Boy]

**** that!
GM minivans sucks, in fact even I dislike Detroit-made vehicles, I still prefer the Daimler-Chrysler twins and the Ford then those hunk of junk. Even they have the most model line of the market, they still can't beat the Dodge-Chrysler in sales, Honda-Toyota-Mazda in quality & reliability, and the warranty of the Kia.

 

[milefile]

Originally posted by M5Power


Hyundai which no one with any sense purchases [/B]

I purchased one. I have sense. Anti lock brakes, front and side airbags, good mileage, a ten year warrantee, roadside assistance, etc.

It's for my wife and she wouldn't even appreciate a "better" car so why spend any more on unnecessary power, features, handling, whatever?

People should stop dogging Hyundai. I know it used to be fashionable but those days are over. It's not a bad car. I'd buy a Hyundai before I'd buy a Ford or a Chevy.

I drive a Grand Cherokee and I would not want any other 4X4. The only one I even like is the 4Runner, or maybe the Range Rover, but on my paycheck the Grand Cherokee is the best I can do. It's my second Jeep and I will probably remain a loyal customer.

So not all American cars are crap.

 

[1X83Z]

Originally posted by milefile


I purchased one. I have sense. Anti lock brakes, front and side airbags, good mileage, a ten year warrantee, roadside assistance, etc.

It's for my wife and she wouldn't even appreciate a "better" car so why spend any more on unnecessary power, features, handling, whatever?

People should stop dogging Hyundai. I know it used to be fashionable but those days are over. It's not a bad car. I'd buy a Hyundai before I'd buy a Ford or a Chevy.

Ahh, Hyundai in America is not to be insulted! I'm a huge fan of Hyundai USA; especially the Elantra, and one of my favourite coupes on sale is the Tiburon V6 (though I absolutely hate the Santa Fe). We were talking about Hyundai Europe, which is a totally different market, and Hyundai insists on selling totally different cars which no one with any sense buys, such as the Atoz, a slow, cheap, ugly, small, poor-driving bus-like vehicle that's overpriced for the segment.

Additionally, Hyundai in Europe is not trusted over there because Europeans have a weird hang-up about vehicles not made in Germany or Japan, so Hyundais (all Korean cars, actually) lose their value extremely quickly (one British magazine relates it to throwing 50-pound notes in a barbecue grille). Also, in relation to our Hyundai-Europe topic, the 10 year warranty is unheard of in Europe, where the nicest warrantys are close to four years.

Sorry for the confusion.

 

[milefile]

I see. I didn't know about Hyundai Europe. Sounds like nobody with any sense would purchase one

I should mention, though, that Hyundai was not my first choice, but financial restrictions made it so.

 

[The Vanishing Boy]

I'm also a Hyundai fan too, in fact one of my favorite minivans ever is the Hyundai Starex 2.5 TD Club 4X4 in fact, the Starex is the best selling minivan in the Philippines.

Heres some more images of the Starex:
Starex Limosine (the top of the line, an RV, sort of)

The bestselling model (Philippines) 2.5 TD Club 2WD

 

[wazzuuup]

Originally posted by Zero
As of late yes, but a few years ago all I saw on the roads of Atlanta were Caravans and Town and Country's. Just in the past few years the Odyssey has been selling like crazy, hell if I wanted a minivan I'd take that 200hp V-6 that is in my car right now

I wonder if they'll ever build a Type-R or atleast put a V-tech under the hood.

 

[DGB454]

I don't get it. You are saying that the most succesful car company in the world should stop dominating the car market?
The more the better. I hope GM floods the market with more and more cars , vans, and trucks.

I need more!!!

 

[DGB454]

Real or not it's hideous.

 

[DGB454]

oops. disreguard that last one. Wrong thread.

 

[Concept]

The Aztek is ugly. My neighbor has one. My dog loves to piss on it.