I need help, 2 issues.

[Michelin]

Hello guys. I come to you all with two issues (one caused by trying to fix the other).

Issue #1: While trying to fix issue #2, I made some changes to the BIOS. When I reseted my computer it turns on fine, but the motherboard doesn't make any beep sound and doesn't send any image to my monitor. I tried changing back to my onboard graphics card but it didn't work. I did a quick search on the internet and readed about doing a clear CMOS. Is it recommended, does it really work?

Now, issue #2: RAM Memory. I'm using Windows 7 Ultimate and recently I did a small upgrade to my PC, new processor (single to dual-core), doubled the RAM (2 to 4GB) and a offboard graphics card (Geforce 7300GT). Problem is, Windows keep saying that the utilizable RAM is of 3,25GB. I of course want it to utilize all of the 4GB. Does anyone know what I can do?

My PC Specs:
Motherboard: PC Chips P53G
Graphics Card: Nvidia Geforce 7300GT
RAM Memory: 4GB DDR2
Processor: Intel Dual-Core 1.6Ghz LGA-775 Socket

 

[Lain]

I'm assuming that your processor is an Intel Core 2 Duo, in which case it's 64-bit. You might want to check and make sure you're using the 64-bit version of Windows... if it's 32-bit, that might be the cause of your RAM issue.

And yes, I'd try clearing CMOS for issue #1.

Lastly.... Nice avatar.

 

[Grayfox]

1: Use Clear CMOS/CLRCMOS jumper or remove all power from the system and remove the battery to clear CMOS settings so you can revert all settings to default.

2:The limit on a x86 system is about 4GB.
But in the real world this is about 3.0GB~3.5GB due to some being reserved for hardware resources

3: Dont go poking around in the BIOS without knowing what each setting does, be lucky you did not change any voltage settings to kill something.

 

[Michelin]

I'll be doing clear CMOS after the F1 race then. And I'm using 64 bit version of Windows 7 Ultimate, so it should read the 4GB right? It shouldn't give that "utilizable RAM Memory" thing, right?

 

[Robin]

Also try unplugging everything from the motherboard including the graphics card (use onboard video), all hard drives and use only one stick of RAM. This is to see if the mobo posts (beeps) and that you get the BIOS on screen.

Then add back each component one by one, it could possibly be that the memory you added is not seated correctly or that it's a bad stick.

 

[Pseudopod]

Some of it might be reserved for graphics memory if you have an integrated gpu, even if it isn't in use. Idk.

 

[Grayfox]

Some of it might be reserved for graphics memory if you have an integrated gpu, even if it isn't in use. Idk.

Normally IGPU gets disabled when you install a PCIe GPU.

You still can set the default graphics from AUTO to PCIe in the BIOS but you should only do it if you know how to tweak BIOS settings.

 

[Pseudopod]

Yeah, normally. Maybe something strange happened and it didn't happen the way it should . It might be worth double checking if other suggestions don't work.

I have run into a similar issue many years ago actually, with a funky motherboard that didn't deal with 4 GB ram even though it did support 64bit cpu. This was on an old and system when x64 was still pretty new. Landed at 3.7 or something there. The mobo was supposed to support up to 4.

 

[Michelin]

so it might be a MoBo setting then, that doesn't utilize all the RAM? Wow.

And I'm not a PC expert at all (I really shouldn't be messing with the BIOS settings, but I guess we learn from mistakes...) but I can't find the jumper on my MoBo to make the clear CMOS. Could anyone help me?

 

[Pseudopod]

Depends on the motherboard. Some have two pins you need to connect, others have a button you need to press. All of them have a battery you can remove and put back in to clear it if you can't find one of the first two.

And it's not as much a setting to make it not use everything as it is a setting to enable a feature that needs a bit of ram. If that is the case at all. It's kind of a long shot.

 

[Michelin]

I found the battery, was able to remove (the graphics card is actually right above it, so it makes for difficult access). Left it out for more than a minute probably, had to unscrew one of the sides of the graphics card for easier access to the battery slot (didn't help as much as I though it would, but it helped none the less).

Put all cables on, turned it on and bang! Got the beep, got images coming through the monitor and it's all working right now!

Thanks guys, learned a bit more about my PC and it's all good now.

 

[dr_slump]

2:The limit on a x86 system is about 4GB.
But in the real world this is about 3.0GB~3.5GB due to some being reserved for hardware resources

The client versions of Windows 7 (actually all client Windows since W2000) are actually able to use significantly more than 4GB of RAM, in fact up to 64GB.

The only reason why you can't use that much memory (unless you're running on extremely old hardware), is because Microsoft doesn't allow/license you to use it. Officially they say "driver compatibility" could be a problem.

 

[Korza]

Some of it might be reserved for graphics memory if you have an integrated gpu, even if it isn't in use. Idk.

Windows will allocate RAM to external GPUs as well as integrated ones.

 

[Grayfox]

The client versions of Windows 7 (actually all client Windows since W2000) are actually able to use significantly more than 4GB of RAM, in fact up to 64GB.

The only reason why you can't use that much memory (unless you're running on extremely old hardware), is because Microsoft doesn't allow/license you to use it. Officially they say "driver compatibility" could be a problem.

Your thinking of PAE(Physical Address Extension)

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Physical_Address_Extension

 

[Pseudopod]

It requires support from every single hardware device driver, or you'll get a system that ranges from a bit unstable to very unstable. This sort of driver support is difficult to get from thousands of different hardware manufacturers and is in practice only realistic to implement on proper servers where you have much less variety in different hardware configurations.

It's really just a remnant from a time when some servers needed more than 4 GB RAM and also did not run on a 64bit cpu. It was (and still is) mostly irrelevant to almost every normal user in the world and that's why it was disabled by default. It'd probably lead to more bad than good.

 

[Michelin]

Well, if it helps, my PC (and of course my MoBO as well) are from 2005 (got it as my birthday gift, so it already reached the 10 year mark) so could be the age of the MoBO that doesn't allow all 4GB to be readed? By the way all memory is DDR2 667Hz.

And Windows 7 Ultimate 64 Bit can read up to 192GB per Microsoft site.

 

[Korza]

Well, if it helps, my PC (and of course my MoBO as well) are from 2005 (got it as my birthday gift, so it already reached the 10 year mark) so could be the age of the MoBO that doesn't allow all 4GB to be readed? By the way all memory is DDR2 667Hz.

And Windows 7 Ultimate 64 Bit can read up to 192GB per Microsoft site.

Your board supports up 4GB so it won't be an issue. Windows will most likely be allocating the 0.5GB to the graphics card.

Go to Control Panel>System>Windows Experience Index> View and Print Detailed Performance and System Information. In there towards the bottom it will tell you how much RAM is being shared with the graphics card.

 

[Infinital-NG]

http://www.pcchipsusa.com/PCCWebSit...=1&DetailName=Specification&MenuID=44&LanID=0

Your motherboard can support 4GB max RAM.

Once again I'd be careful, but even though you have a new graphics card, your motherboard should disable the on-board, but I'd look in BIOS for graphics card memory. Can't remember the exact term it will say.

http://smallbusiness.chron.com/change-memory-allocated-graphics-card-58676.html

 

[Michelin]

OPS. Double post.

 

[Michelin]

The onboard graphics card is disabled, I made the test already.

Your board supports up 4GB so it won't be an issue. Windows will most likely be allocating the 0.5GB to the graphics card.

Go to Control Panel>System>Windows Experience Index> View and Print Detailed Performance and System Information. In there towards the bottom it will tell you how much RAM is being shared with the graphics card.

1407MB is being shared with the graphics card.

 

[dr_slump]

Your thinking of PAE(Physical Address Extension)

..., which Windows 7 uses by default in by far the most cases.

No matter if you run PAE or not, the limit will be at 4GB regardless, but only because Microsoft set that limit, not because the system couldn't go higher.

It checks licence values at every start. If you patch the kernel so that it ignores those values, you'll get access to up to 64GB. 32bit server versions do nothing different, but without limit, that's why those can officially access up to 64GB.

It requires support from every single hardware device driver.

Only a very few drivers. Or perhaps you're just thinking it was a drivers issue, even though Microsofts HAL in XP SP2 and SP3 was actually the part that completely messed it up?
The drivers for 32bit devices that don't work, would just be as faulty for the 64bit version of Windows. It's usually because those don't use DMA according to documentation.

did not run on a 64bit cpu.

It works just fine on 64bit CPUs.

that's why it was disabled by default.

Since Vista the default is to use PAE whenever possible. Since Windows 8 it's not even possible to install it on hardware that doesn't support PAE.

 

[Sanji Himura]

http://www.pcchipsusa.com/PCCWebSit...=1&DetailName=Specification&MenuID=44&LanID=0

Your motherboard can support 4GB max RAM.

Once again I'd be careful, but even though you have a new graphics card, your motherboard should disable the on-board, but I'd look in BIOS for graphics card memory. Can't remember the exact term it will say.

http://smallbusiness.chron.com/change-memory-allocated-graphics-card-58676.html

To run off that, do you know what type of RAM that you used/upgraded to? Odd question, I know, but that might impact performance.

 

[dr_slump]

Soooooo, after all that PAE stuff I'll try to help solve the problem.

Well, if it helps, my PC (and of course my MoBO as well) are from 2005 (got it as my birthday gift, so it already reached the 10 year mark) so could be the age of the MoBO that doesn't allow all 4GB to be readed? By the way all memory is DDR2 667Hz.

How much memory does the BIOS POST show?

Can you check if "memory remapping (or similar)" is enabled in the BIOS? If not, activate it.
You should find it either in the memory settings or advanced settings. It's different from mainboard to mainboard.

If you think screenshots could help, feel free to as example use Google to search for pictures called "memory remapping".

 

[Michelin]

Soooooo, after all that PAE fluff I'll try to help solve the problem.


How much memory does the BIOS POST show?

Can you check if "memory remapping (or similar)" is enabled in the BIOS? If not, activate it.
You should find it either in the memory settings or advanced settings. It's different from mainboard to mainboard.

I could make the check after I take a shower and post it here afterwards.

To run off that, do you know what type of RAM that you used/upgraded to? Odd question, I know, but that might impact performance.

DDR2 667Hz (or is that the wrong answer?)

 

[Grayfox]

DDR2 667Hz (or is that the wrong answer?)

PC2 5300 /DDR2 667 is decent for DDR2 RAM.
If you added some DDR2 800/PC2 6400 modules they will match the lowest speed of the slowest module installed or the max speed supported by the motherboard.

 

[Pseudopod]

..., which Windows 7 uses by default in by far the most cases.

No matter if you run PAE or not, the limit will be at 4GB regardless, but only because Microsoft set that limit, not because the system couldn't go higher.

It checks licence values at every start. If you patch the kernel so that it ignores those values, you'll get access to up to 64GB. 32bit server versions do nothing different, but without limit, that's why those can officially access up to 64GB.

Only a very few drivers. Or perhaps you're just thinking it was a drivers issue, even though Microsofts HAL in XP SP2 and SP3 was actually the part that completely messed it up?
The drivers for 32bit devices that don't work, would just be as faulty for the 64bit version of Windows. It's usually because those don't use DMA according to documentation.

It works just fine on 64bit CPUs.

Since Vista the default is to use PAE whenever possible. Since Windows 8 it's not even possible to install it on hardware that doesn't support PAE.

I think we're talking past each others, at least partially.

Why is Windows 7 using it in most cases? I mean what's the use for it if you either have a 64bit system, or have less than 4 GB of RAM?

 

[dr_slump]

I could make the check after I take a shower and post it here afterwards.

You're taking an extremely long shower, I'm not sure if that's healthy...

@Pseudopod
PAE is only for the 32bit versions of Windows.

The main reason was DEP (Data Execution Prevention).
They started doing this with Vista.

(https://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/windows/desktop/aa366796(v=vs.85).aspx)

Enabling PAE

Windows automatically enables PAE if DEP is enabled on a computer that supports hardware-enabled DEP, or if the computer is configured for hot-add memory devices in memory ranges beyond 4 GB. If the computer does not support hardware-enabled DEP or is not configured for hot-add memory devices in memory ranges beyond 4 GB, PAE must be explicitly enabled.

Because Microsoft pushes OEMs to always use DEP and modern hardware pretty much in every case supports it, it's almost always enabled by default. Since Windows 8 the hardware must support it, otherwise you couldn't install the OS, it's always enabled and the exception is no longer valid.

The responsible code is exactly the same on the client and server versions (XP had a few exceptions), there's absolutely no difference. Like I said, the only difference is the licensing value, but that has no technical reason, it's simply set by Microsoft. It's actually the very same method used to criple the Windows Starter versions to only be able to use 2GB (which has no technical reason either). Possible that in the pre Vista time there were a few wonky drivers around, but if this happens nowadays, then the developer simply doesn't know what he's doing.

For the OP it doesn't have any meaning, because now we know he's running a 64bit OS (which wasn't clear at the beginning).

 

[Michelin]

You're taking an extremely long shower, I'm not sure if that's healthy...

Well, I actually forgot about this, so I'm sorry.

There is no memory remapping or similiar option on my BIOS.

 

[dr_slump]

@Michelin
And how much memory does the BIOS show?

If the board really doesn't have the option and also doesn't do it automatically, then you're stuck at those 3.x GB of RAM.