I now prefer the Driving in Shift 2

[Nuck81]

No, as long as it's not just trolling fanboyism, I enjoy hearing both sides of the argument and actually get useful information out of it. Just because it's negative doesn't mean it should be ignored.

I agree, I think this thread has been pretty mature and civilized. Some good debating so far 👍

 

[boomee]

I was definitly frustrated when I first started playing this game. Then i started reading some f the threads in the GTplanet shift area I realized my problem was is all i have been playingsince november is Gt5 and I was conforming to there physics and driving philosophy. once i just took it as a new game to learn i started to undertand and the more i put in to the game the more i am getting out of it sim or not that is the mark of a good game

 

[mytton]

I was definitly frustrated when I first started playing this game. Then i started reading some f the threads in the GTplanet shift area I realized my problem was is all i have been playingsince november is Gt5 and I was conforming to there physics and driving philosophy. once i just took it as a new game to learn i started to undertand and the more i put in to the game the more i am getting out of it sim or not that is the mark of a good game

But then is it different because it is less realistic (the driving, handling of cars, etc.) then GT5? This is what I'd like to know, and I know it's hard to have a definite answer.

 

[machschnel]

But then is it different because it is less realistic (the driving, handling of cars, etc.) then GT5? This is what I'd like to know, and I know it's hard to have a definite answer.

The problem is in using Gran Turismo 5 as a yard stick - We should be using our (if any of us have any) real race track experience. While good, GT5 is not as realistic as some would have you believe, so comparing any game to it is not ideal.

 

[Imari]

But then is it different because it is less realistic (the driving, handling of cars, etc.) then GT5? This is what I'd like to know, and I know it's hard to have a definite answer.

I think it's honestly hard to know at this point with the input lag interfering.

About the best you can say is it's not unrealistic, the cars behave in a similar manner to what you'd expect from GT5, but there's differences in how pronounced some effects are. Big bumps seriously unsettle cars in Shift 2, whereas in GT5 there's no such effect (jump at Cape Ring for example). I think the tyres feels good, and match the cars that they're fitted to well. A Miata on crappy tyres slides around a little, but not much because it's not going very fast. Cars are often wallowy, but the stock suspension settings are usually very soft.

I couldn't say how accurate a simulation it is, but it's simulating a lot of the things that you want it to. The physics promotes driving in a correct manner instead of just flinging it into corners. Maybe it's not the best, but it's certainly decent.

 

[mytton]

The problem is in using Gran Turismo 5 as a yard stick - We should be using our (if any of us have any) real race track experience. While good, GT5 is not as realistic as some would have you believe, so comparing any game to it is not ideal.

I guess that's true, but if we know GT5 is "this" close real life track racing and that is the only experience most of us have access to, then how is it relative to that.

Either way really, I just want to know how realistic it is, and since I and many people already have GT5, is it above it, below it, or rather equal to it on that scale?

Or as you said, which is just as helpful, just how close to real life racing is it, as close, closer, or less close than GT5?


EDIT: Thanks for the response above, that does help reassure me.

 

[Bigbazz]

I enjoy Shift 2 and it is a fun game (30% in at the moment) but i have to completely disagree with this. The problem with it is nothing to do with it not feeling like GT5, but rather that it does not react as expected and it ignores some laws of physics. The driving model is just not articulate or advanced enough and for me it takes away many of the finer details of driving to spoil the experience.

My favourite driving model is the one in iRacing, which also happens to be one of the most advanced and most accurate available, theres just something about driving where you expect things to happen and I don't get that in Shift 2, it feels slightly alien.

Now don't get me wrong, i don't have difficulty with the game, so far i seem to have won every race in the first go (a few restarts from AI crashing into me, or AI becoming magnetic and sticking to my car) despite that i dont know half the tracks, and the ones i do know are running configurations that i've never driven. I've easily beaten the gold times set by the game often by many seconds on tracks/configurations that i've never driven on. I find the game generally easy to play, but annoying at the same time. I often make silly mistakes that just seem to come from nowhere, often attributed to the games permanently on "Auto Countersteer" system, pair that up with input lag and you got a game that is extremely frustrating to play at times.


One thing this game isnt is "Real Racing", but sure it's a cool game. Calling Shift 2 real racing is similar to calling the Rocky movies "Real Boxing".

Edit : Issues with Shift 2 driving model.

1. Lack of understeer, i can full throttle around many corners and under too much load on the tyres the car almost feels like GT5 with SFR and TC set on but exaggerated, there is far too much grip available and not enough detail in the relationship between throttle, braking and steering and its effects on understeer/oversteer.
2. Automatic Countersteer - This has lead me to need to avoid countersteering much as the game seems to want to straighten the car out by itself, this also has a tendancy to cause the car to be unstable in certain situations.
3. Not enough throttle sensitivity, the throttle in this game feels not far from being an on/off switch, the sounds in the game do actually seem to work as an on/off which makes this seem more apparent, but precise throttle control does not seem to have much use here, compared to other titles/real life.
4. Grip - Again, way way too much grip available in general, the cars off the start lights seem to just rocket off the line and i keep underestimating how fast i can take a corner because i'm expecting a lack of grip or the presence of understeer/oversteer which never arises. Precise control is not something that you need, just steer the car and pedal to the metal.
5. Brakes - Even with ABS off the car seems to perfectly brake while turning and lockup, or an inability to steer under braking doesn't really happen, trail braking has no effect on the handling of the car, it should cause slight oversteer/turn in.

 

[Nuck81]

I guess that's true, but if we know GT5 is "this" close real life track racing and that is the only experience most of us have access to, then how is it relative to that.

Either way really, I just want to know how realistic it is, and since I and many people already have GT5, is it above it, below it, or rather equal to it on that scale?

Or as you said, which is just as helpful, just how close to real life racing is it, as close, closer, or less close than GT5?


EDIT: Thanks for the response above, that does help reassure me.

Realistic in what way?

In Shift 2 if you bump other cars you wreck and lose, in GT5 you bump them to knock them out of your way and win.

If you hit the wall in Shift 2, your view loses focus, your car comes unsettled, your car gets damaged visually and mechanically, and you lose. In GT5 you bounce off the walls with no penalty and in some tracks can actually ride the walls for better lap times with no penalties.

In Shift 2 when you push your car to the very edge of speed it's twitchy, bouncy, stressful and nerve wracking. In GT5 when you push your car the very edge of speed, the Cockpit shakes a lot.

In Shift 2 if you overturn the wheel and lose traction, your steering wheel breaks free, your tires lose grip, and you have to fight to regain control. In GT5 if you overturn the wheel you don't lose traction and the tires squeal louder until you slow down enough that they can continue to turn.

In Shift 2 you have marbles on the track that you can hear under your car, your wheel shakes going over rumble strips, you can see rubber, dirt, grass, and trash thrown from the cars in front of you. At night cars behind you light up the inside of your cockpit and blind your review mirror, you can see the actual shadow of your car on the wall in turns do to the lights from the car behind you. It roars, screams, crashes, and gets real loud. In GT5 it runs at 60fps, looks real clean, and has bright shiny colors.

If it's driving, then GT5 does feel really good. But Shift 2 feels pretty good too, although a different feeling than GT5. Which feeling is more realistic? I don't know, I've never driven a race car on a track in real life. I do know which game is realistically more fun though.....

Edit: About input lag. I honestly don't think I've experienced what people have described as input lag. When I turn, my car turns. Maybe I'm lucky, maybe I've learned to compensate for it and I don't realize it's there. I don't really know, but it took GT5 a few patches before it got really good, and I'm sure Shift 2 will get even better after they get a patch or two in as well...

 

[RomKnight]

Edit: About input lag. I honestly don't think I've experienced what people have described as input lag. When I turn, my car turns. Maybe I'm lucky, maybe I've learned to compensate for it and I don't realize it's there. .

+1

Either I adapted to the game auto-magically or my brain is to stupid to see it even knowing its there... I bet on the latter.

Anyway. just got the game and put 6h into it straight... and its morning again... i really need to sleep but i had to come here just to say i'm a happy customer.

so far the only glitch I got has to to with engine sounds. A restart even before the event start solved the problem

I've seen the AI crashing to avoid me and pushing me to the wall. So much diversity in a race. no two races are alike. the cars all behave differently and messing even with the tires pressure makes a difference in handling (don't tell me the physics aren't there...)

Anyway, trying to do that invitational A event was like nothing I've ever experienced in a race game. Now it seems the roller-coaster I read about

This game is fun and if they solve that lag issue so the handling is spot on it can only be better. But until now, i don't miss patch for this (ps3 fat - g27).

BTW, the photos taken in photo mode posted around here don't really show the graphics. The game looks so much better than the photos can show.

I need to sleep... quick

 

[Nuck81]

1. Lack of understeer, i can full throttle around many corners and under too much load on the tyres the car almost feels like GT5 with SFR and TC set on but exaggerated, there is far too much grip available and not enough detail in the relationship between throttle, braking and steering and its effects on understeer/oversteer.
2. Automatic Countersteer - This has lead me to need to avoid countersteering much as the game seems to want to straighten the car out by itself, this also has a tendancy to cause the car to be unstable in certain situations.
3. Not enough throttle sensitivity, the throttle in this game feels not far from being an on/off switch, the sounds in the game do actually seem to work as an on/off which makes this seem more apparent, but precise throttle control does not seem to have much use here, compared to other titles/real life.
4. Grip - Again, way way too much grip available in general, the cars off the start lights seem to just rocket off the line and i keep underestimating how fast i can take a corner because i'm expecting a lack of grip or the presence of understeer/oversteer which never arises. Precise control is not something that you need, just steer the car and pedal to the metal.
5. Brakes - Even with ABS off the car seems to perfectly brake while turning and lockup, or an inability to steer under braking doesn't really happen, trail braking has no effect on the handling of the car, it should cause slight oversteer/turn in.

1. Do you have it set to elite? I understeer all the dang time. Especially in the fast cars.

2. I'm not even sure what you're talking about here. Could you elaborate?

3. I agree with this. Then I turned down the throttle sensitivity to 30 and have full control of coming out of corners. In fact I may turn it down a little more.

4. Like number 1 I just dont experience this. Do you run flat out full throttle around every track? Because I have blown past many corners do to understeer. I've dropped a tire off the track tons of times in a sweeper because I had too much throttle. I really think you may have it set on a mode other than elite.

5. Same as 2.

 

[Imari]

+1

Either I adapted to the game auto-magically or my brain is to stupid to see it even knowing its there... I bet on the latter.

A bit of both probably. It's not that hard to adapt to, particularly if you work your way up from the slower classes. Input lag at 120kph isn't a big deal. It's when you start hitting A class/GT3/GT1 that you may start to feel that something is off, fractions of a second matter at those speeds. But if you're not looking for it, your brain will probably just assume it's part of the physics and compensate. Unless you have something like the cockpit wheel staring you in the face it's easy to ignore.

Even with the fault, it's a very enjoyable game. It's merely the one thing standing between in becoming a reasonable sim, IMO. It simulates everything, it just does it in a different fashion to some games people might be familiar with. Which is not a bad thing in my eyes.

 

[JJ72]

1. Lack of understeer, i can full throttle around many corners and under too much load on the tyres the car almost feels like GT5 with SFR and TC set on but exaggerated, there is far too much grip available and not enough detail in the relationship between throttle, braking and steering and its effects on understeer/oversteer.

Do the retro muscle hot lap, plenty of understeering action.

and definitely not what I would call too much grip.

 

[Bigbazz]

1. Do you have it set to elite? I understeer all the dang time. Especially in the fast cars.

2. I'm not even sure what you're talking about here. Could you elaborate?

3. I agree with this. Then I turned down the throttle sensitivity to 30 and have full control of coming out of corners. In fact I may turn it down a little more.

4. Like number 1 I just dont experience this. Do you run flat out full throttle around every track? Because I have blown past many corners do to understeer. I've dropped a tire off the track tons of times in a sweeper because I had too much throttle. I really think you may have it set on a mode other than elite.

5. Same as 2.

1. Yes it is set to elite, on the hardest difficulty setting running a G27 with the default steering rotation in game (mainly because it seemingly wont save it at 900)

2. In situations where the car starts to oversteer and lose control i was reacting by countersteering and lifting off the throttle, this caused a jerk reaction in the opposite direction which confused the hell out of me, i then got into the habbit of not countersteering and noticed the car would correct itself. After this i did some googling and found a lot of discussion on various forums with people complaining of the games "auto countersteer" which is causing this issue, especially a lot of people complaining it ruins the drifting. It essencially forces you to drive around the problem, though taking away full control of the car from the user.

3. Throttle sensitivity i have set at 35%, it is fine like that but i still find the game lacks in this area and to be honest that is fine because you do not need it for the general car racing due to the ammount of grip available and the stability of the cars under throttle, though drifting is insane.

4. Grip wise it just seems I can go blasting around every track like some maniac. I should clarify, what I mean by understeer is mostly understeer caused under throttle on corner exit, which is something i find the game doesn't do. I also found many cars being too stable under throttle while turning and i've gotten into the habbit of just ramming the throttle down when i am steady in a corner and each time i am amazed that i somehow managed to pull it off. I can often use throttle around a whole corner when in reality i should be rolling around the first half of most corners, but the grip in most of the cars is massive and understeer almost non existant.

5. Without ABS the brakes should lockup under high pressure (they do to an extent, car dependant), also while slowly releasing pressure off the brake and turning in a direction you should notice a slight ammount of oversteer or almost like a flick into a certain direction (Google trail braking), often used to aid in cornering with understeering cars. This is really car dependant, after driving the GT-R the technique works fine so i'l take back what i said about the brakes.

 

[MagpieRacer]

I have to say I dont think the cars feel to grippy. I have had a number of crashes caused by oversteer. Especially when I nail the throttle too early, wrecked my Silvia with the R34 engine a number of times.

I am of the belief that once you get some good wheel settings dialled in, it is a very nice physics engine to drive with. Takes a bit of practice sure but it is fun, does punish you and feels good.

 

[jamesscotland73]

Why do so many people think that it should be easy to drive a car at speed on a race track.

Just what I have come to expect from people nowadays, if they cant master something within the first 5 laps its unistalled and labelled as rubbish.

I for one think its the best most immersive cockpit view i have ever seen in a racing game, the helmet cam can actually be used as a indicator for getting your turn in correct.

Totally loving it.

Its a pitty people on ps3 are having input lag issues.

Im on pc with a fanatec and clubsports, its too early to say it the best racing game of its type i have ever played, but i can see my opinion heading that way.

You can practically watch television while grinding in gt5 (gave up on tired, stale, unispiring and dated GT5 months ago) , you have to concentrate fully with Shift.

 

[Nuck81]

1. Yes it is set to elite, on the hardest difficulty setting running a G27 with the default steering rotation in game (mainly because it seemingly wont save it at 900)

2. In situations where the car starts to oversteer and lose control i was reacting by countersteering and lifting off the throttle, this caused a jerk reaction in the opposite direction which confused the hell out of me, i then got into the habbit of not countersteering and noticed the car would correct itself. After this i did some googling and found a lot of discussion on various forums with people complaining of the games "auto countersteer" which is causing this issue, especially a lot of people complaining it ruins the drifting. It essencially forces you to drive around the problem, though taking away full control of the car from the user.

3. Throttle sensitivity i have set at 35%, it is fine like that but i still find the game lacks in this area and to be honest that is fine because you do not need it for the general car racing due to the ammount of grip available and the stability of the cars under throttle, though drifting is insane.

4. Grip wise it just seems I can go blasting around every track like some maniac. I should clarify, what I mean by understeer is mostly understeer caused under throttle on corner exit, which is something i find the game doesn't do. I also found many cars being too stable under throttle while turning and i've gotten into the habbit of just ramming the throttle down when i am steady in a corner and each time i am amazed that i somehow managed to pull it off. I can often use throttle around a whole corner when in reality i should be rolling around the first half of most corners, but the grip in most of the cars is massive and understeer almost non existant.

5. Without ABS the brakes should lockup under high pressure (they do to an extent, car dependant), also while slowly releasing pressure off the brake and turning in a direction you should notice a slight ammount of oversteer or almost like a flick into a certain direction (Google trail braking), often used to aid in cornering with understeering cars. This is really car dependant, after driving the GT-R the technique works fine so i'l take back what i said about the brakes.

2. Even in GT5 if I started to slide because I was too hot in a corner I just held the wheel steady and lifted the throttle and tapped brake (which is probably the wrong strategy but oh well) Just a driving style difference I suppose. I haven't tried the drifting, it was the absolute last thing I did in Shift1 and I never tried it in GT5. So I probably won't encounter it for a while.

3 & 4. Yeah I see what you mean now. I agree they are for the most part pretty stable under throttle. It was probably done to make it more accessible to people not used to Racing games. Also having the Throttles Sensitivity turned down like we do probably helps some. Kind of like tuning the LSD in GT5. I think it depends on the car though.

When the back end comes around out of the corner under throttle I never called it Understeer, I always just called it "losing your ****" I'll admit, about 80% of my driving has been in the Golf GTI (Which is so perfect in every way it's the car Jeebus would drive if he had one) and the Nissan GTR, which all joking aside is pound for pound the best handling and most stable production car in the world. However, there is still one of the early races in a Viper I haven't done yet at Miami because I can't drive the sumbitch for that very reason. It feels like a Yellowbird in GT5 to me, just a stupid stupid car. The Muscle Car series was tough because of all the power going to the back wheels and the lack of handling. And I bought the Pagani Hurrayiragi, which is a total handfull. That car loses its **** if you even look at the throttle.

The game has it's issues, but like GT5 I think it deserves a patch or two before everyone labels it as rubbish and tosses it aside. GT5 is on it's 8th patch, and could still use a few more...

 

[pred314]

Yesterday I had an hr or 2 to kil and I decided to tune the lexus lfa works . It was garbage outta the box I then proceeded to play with the suspension , tire pressure and downforce. I disliked this car at first even tho it was a beast on gt5. I, luckily, did come up with a setup that was almost brilliant to drive. "Im lovin this game!"

I have a g27 and I experienced this floaty till I read the forums and stated experimenting with settings and I now have a setup that Im very comfortable with and enjoying driving. All in all , This game has some serious potential for some competitive tuning genius.

I played all day Day 1 with the floaty thinking this game sux, but with patience and experimentation it can be configured for your driving style. I really love this game now and with a patch can only get better. Im thinking Ones skill or patience tuning your wheel or controller gives you a slight advantage and really expands the experience.

 

[JeffKill]

Do stock cars handle as bad as they do in Forza? I know IMO expensive stock supercars handled like utter garbage in Forza, but once you upgraded and did some tuning to the suspension, you could get them handling perfect. If Shift 2 is the same way, I really wont mind doing some tuning to get the cars to handle properly.

I've played a lot of FM2 & 3, and had no problem tuning my cars to handle exactly as I wanted. The thing I like about GT5 is how the cars don't handle like complete crap in stock form, and they all have their own feeling. In GT5 I actually do less tuning just to keep the original characteristics of the car. Or you can tune the crap out of them and make them all feel the same (boring). As for the AI, I don't really care, as I'd rather get online and race human opponents anyway. No AI in any game will ever beat that, as long as you can find a group of people that race clean to play with.

I will also be playing Shift 2 on the PS3, so Im hoping the input lag or whatever you want to call it can be fixed. I couldn't imagine having to tune a car just to get rid of that. Should have my new wheel back from Logitech on Monday, and Im looking forward to trying it out.

 

[pred314]

I personally believe that you can tune your wheel and car to drive properly.Like I said, Im comfortable after a few days with wheel tuned driving and not experiencing the floaty and have really only really tried to tune the one car extensively. I believe being only a video game and myself having not driven a monster but the tuning options are extensive so you could tune it to your liking.

The lfa I tuned still skids but I dunno if its because I tried to take corner too fast, but it really feels like your on the edge and its great fun!

 

[HeadsoupBob]

Yeah I see what you mean now. I agree they are for the most part pretty stable under throttle. It was probably done to make it more accessible to people not used to Racing games.

That's what I think too. It's the only part of the handling I find lacking. It's hard to force oversteer with the throttle, although I haven't tried the really high powered RWD cars yet.

That and it seems the cars have all been default tuned to heavy understeer and soft suspension. And going into the tuning section confirms that. I think they should have sacrificed more of the 'make it playable' for more aggressive tunes.

I have no doubt the driving model underneath is something to behold.

 

[pred314]

Some of the cars drive like a raped ape looking for the next crackpipe fix!

Thats the only analogy I came up. The GTR is the one that drives like its on rails for me anyway.

 

[Ziggy Jinx]

I was up till two in the morning what was crazy for me as I was well into multiplayer having a right blast.. Had loads of good races online and a few bad ones. Best races for me at the moment are the multiplayer games where the host puts us all in the same cars so fairs fair all down the grid.
Think this is a great game and looking forward to engine swapping and turboing more fine motors.... Bring it on !!

 

[UkHardcore23]

Spent 5 & a half hours on this last night and had much more fun than what i did with 50+ hours with GT5, no doubt in my mind Shift 2 is a much better game than GT5.

 

[JJ72]

I was up till two in the morning what was crazy for me as I was well into multiplayer having a right blast.. Had loads of good races online and a few bad ones. Best races for me at the moment are the multiplayer games where the host puts us all in the same cars so fairs fair all down the grid.
Think this is a great game and looking forward to engine swapping and turboing more fine motors.... Bring it on !!

Good for you, half the people I raced can't stay on the track and the half-quick ones are total Aholes lol.

 

[RomKnight]

I did some online racing too. What amazed me the lack of lag i felt on GT5 (my last reference). I didn't saw cars jumping in front of me even though i'm using wireless ATM...

I just used match making and it was quick and easy. Obviously there are always someone willing to go destruction derby style when last but hey, I was just having fun at my first attempt. I'll probably won't go again until I've seen all the tracks.

 

[Nikiso]

Some of the menu controls on PC are a bit weird. Took me a while to realise you actually have to click the 'Save' button with the mouse for it to save your video and control settings The keyboard symbol for 'Save' is the Up arrow, which of course does not do that, WTF?

Agree with you totally and for that UP Arrow that's the SHIFT key :-))

Cheers!

 

[VXR]

After I got some solid settings for the Xbox pad I started to enjoy it.

What are the differences between Pro and Elite, other than what assists it allows? Is Elite a different handling model or is it just a quick way to turn off all assists?

 

[reaperman]

I keep going back to the D class races trying to defend my times. Autolog hotlapping rocks.

I've been so busy having fun with it that:

• I'm only 8% into my career mode.
• I haven't raced on half of the tracks, even in quick mode.
• I haven't even touched online.
• I haven't designed a single custom decal set.

My problem is that there is too much fun to be had for the hours of gaming I have available.

Tonight I might tweak my wheel settings so I can complete some more of the loaner car races. They're a pain in the rear with 900 degrees.

 

[johngt]

Now I have my wheel set up correctly and have set the steering angle to 70 (on the quick tune menu) its driving pretty good

Nice one EA/SMS! 👍

 

[brambos]

buwahaha...you can't feel the difference in downforce in GT5? And no GT5 is not floaty or twitchy when you're driving a car with high downforce.

In GT5 you hear tyre-screeching with every move of the wheel, making it sound like there is a lot of friction going on with the tarmac. In NFS:S2 the tyre noise is almost absent - and in my experience this is a major cause of why we get the sense of 'floatiness'.

A bit of screeching goes a long way...