Ice Age - Here Now?

  • Thread starter Dotini
  • 49 comments
  • 4,877 views
Dotini

Dotini

(Banned)
15,742
United States
Seattle
CR80_Shifty
That paragon of popular taste and interests, Time Magazine, is warning of an immediate Ice Age.
http://www.time.com/time/magazine/article/0,9171,944914-1,00.html

They say the Earth's mean temperature has dropped 2.7 degrees F since the 1940's, and further warn that Earth's present population is unsustainable pending 3 more years of crop failures.

This report cites how the calculations of the global warming community got its numbers hosed up.
http://www.dailytech.com/Dust+Study...g+Modeling+Work+Done+to+Date/article20516.htm
 
I read that since records began there is either no rise or no fall in global temperature on average. The ups and downs are all within margins of error.
 
From the article,

The earth's current climate is something of an anomaly; in the past 700,000 years, there have been at least seven major episodes of glaciers spreading over much of the planet. Temperatures have been as high as they are now only about 5% of the time. But there is a peril more immediate than the prospect of another ice age. Even if temperature and rainfall patterns change only slightly in the near future in one or more of the three major grain-exporting countries—the U.S., Canada and Australia —global food stores would be sharply reduced.
 
Dotini
They say the Earth's mean temperature has dropped 2.7 degrees F since the 1940's, and further warn that Earth's present population is unsustainable pending 3 more years of crop failures.
Click to expand...
Thankfully I live in a land of plenty and don't need to worry about starving to death. Now, please excuse me while I head to McDonald's some double cheeseburgers.
 
Dotini
That paragon of popular taste and interests, Time Magazine, is warning of an immediate Ice Age.
http://www.time.com/time/magazine/article/0,9171,944914-1,00.html

They say the Earth's mean temperature has dropped 2.7 degrees F since the 1940's, and further warn that Earth's present population is unsustainable pending 3 more years of crop failures.
Click to expand...

Must admit, this one made me laugh out loud. Shame on you... April Fool's isn't for another three months...

It's often entertaining to read science articles from the 60's and 70's. It's something I used to do when rummaging through attics as a kid.
 
blaaah
Any article that quotes degrees F for temperature is out of date by a long way.
Click to expand...

Err... why?

PeterJB
I thought the global temperature was rising?
Click to expand...

The global temperature is changing. It's completely dependant on where you are to whether that means getting warmer or getting colder. It's why the term "global warming" isn't really that accurate whereas "climate change", although a bit more general, is also a bit more descriptive.

The UK has barely had a summer for the last two or three years, it's been raining even more than it usually does. And the winters for the last few years have been much colder with a lot more snow. That certainly doesn't point to warming but it does suggest change.
 
homeforsummer
Err... why?



The global temperature is changing. It's completely dependant on where you are to whether that means getting warmer or getting colder. It's why the term "global warming" isn't really that accurate whereas "climate change", although a bit more general, is also a bit more descriptive.

The UK has barely had a summer for the last two or three years, it's been raining even more than it usually does. And the winters for the last few years have been much colder with a lot more snow. That certainly doesn't point to warming but it does suggest change.
Click to expand...

We do not usually have hot summers, surprising as that may sound it is true. It does rain a lot in this country and winter? It's cold in winter because it is winter. It always seems to have been better/different in the past. That's how we view these things.
 
homeforsummer
Err... why?
Click to expand...
"The Celsius scale takes precedence over the Fahrenheit scale in scientific research because it is more compatible with the base ten format of the International System (SI) of metric measurement. In addition, the Celsius temperature scale is commonly used in most countries of the world other than the United States."
I suppose more unscientific rather than old. Celsius was created in 1742, Fahrenheit 1724. Maybe it was originally scientific measure and they converted it to the "weird way" for a traditional audience who don't like science.
 
Last edited:
blaaah
"The Celsius scale takes precedence over the Fahrenheit scale in scientific research because it is more compatible with the base ten format of the International System (SI) of metric measurement. In addition, the Celsius temperature scale is commonly used in most countries of the world other than the United States."
I suppose more unscientific rather than old. Celsius was created in 1742, Fahrenheit 1724. Maybe it was originally scientific measure and they converted it to the "weird way" for a traditional audience who don't like science.
Click to expand...
I was flabbergasted when I got a job at a machine shop here in the States that used metric measurements. Most places take metric measurements and convert them back to standard. And yes, we call it standard. It's worked perfectly well...since 1724 I suppose...and there is no reason to change. If you think the US and UK are the stubborn idiots of the world then so be it.

Anyways, back to climate change. There is already a thread on it actually. It might be appropriate to merge this into that.
 
Tired Tyres
We do not usually have hot summers, surprising as that may sound it is true. It does rain a lot in this country and winter? It's cold in winter because it is winter. It always seems to have been better/different in the past. That's how we view these things.
Click to expand...

Give that another go.

I said there was less of a summer.
More rain during said season.
Colder temperatures.
More snow.

I'm not looking at the past through rose-tinted specs, these are all easily corroborated things. The last two winters have been some of the coldest on record and with some of the highest snowfall on record. And we've not had a good, relatively dry summer for a number of years now, as all the floods would attest.

I.e, nothing to do with how I'm personally viewing it, everything to do with it actually being different.

blaaah
"The Celsius scale takes precedence over the Fahrenheit scale in scientific research because it is more compatible with the base ten format of the International System (SI) of metric measurement. In addition, the Celsius temperature scale is commonly used in most countries of the world other than the United States."
I suppose more unscientific rather than old. Celsius was created in 1742, Fahrenheit 1724. Maybe it was originally scientific measure and they converted it to the "weird way" for a traditional audience who don't like science.
Click to expand...

Whether the scale is "more compatible" or not doesn't automatically make Fahrenheit inaccurate, so it still serves as a perfectly good measure of temperature. No different from how inches are no less accurate than they ever were despite the fact we have metric centimetres.

Keef
If you think the US and UK are the stubborn idiots of the world then so be it.
Click to expand...

The UK is just confusing, since we use both metric and imperial. They try to slide us over to the European-adopted metric system but we still hang onto imperial.

A pint of beer will always be a pint. Can you imagine how hard it would be ordering 0.568 of a liter of beer after you'd already had a few?
 
homeforsummer
The UK is just confusing, since we use both metric and imperial. They try to slide us over to the European-adopted metric system but we still hang onto imperial.

A pint of beer will always be a pint. Can you imagine how hard it would be ordering 0.568 of a liter of beer after you'd already had a few?
Click to expand...
I've always been intrigued by Britons' uncanny ability to convert back and forth in an instant. I can't do that. I have an idea, but I have to think for a second, and even that only applies to miles/kilometers per hour and their distance measurements.

As for beer, I believe we use ounces in the US. You wouldn't know it at a bar. The choices are short, tall, and pitcher. :lol:
 
niky
It's often entertaining to read science articles from the 60's and 70's. It's something I used to do when rummaging through attics as a kid.
Click to expand...
I was going to point out that we've been "under imminent threat" of an ice age/global warming/ice age/global warming/ice age for decades.
 
us brits use a strange mix of metric and imperial. especially younger generations. for example most kids would tell you their weight in imperial measurements( and would use stones rather than just pounds as in the US) but if weighing ANYTHING else probably wouldntg have a clue what a pounds worth of anything is as they would use kilos and grams for food etc. strange country....
 
Wolfe
I was going to point out that we've been "under imminent threat" of an ice age/global warming/ice age/global warming/ice age for decades.
Click to expand...

Indeed, we are due and ice age in the same way Yellowstone's 'Super Volcano' is due to erupt. Imminent on a relative geological time scale still allows for a period of uncertainty, were civilisations can rise and fall without actually being affected by the 'imminent' threat.

There should be an ice age around now...plus or mines a few centuries, or perhaps even a few millennia.

A good question that I would like to know the answer too (and I'm sure some people here might know the answer too): If an Ice age genuinely was imminent, i.e within a decade away, are there any signs that would absolutely guaranty that we would be in an ice age within a few years? As an extension to that question, how quickly could an ice age take affect, over the course of a year? decade? century?
 
Last edited:
My guess (I don't know) is a new Ice Age would be immediately preceded by a shut-down of the Gulf Stream current, encasing northern Europe in perpetual winter roughly 3 years before the full Ice Age descended.

http://www.whoi.edu/page.do?pid=12455&tid=282&cid=10046
Evidence for abrupt climate change is readily apparent in ice cores taken from Greenland and Antarctica. One sees clear indications of long-term changes discussed above, with CO² and proxy temperature changes associated with the last ice age and its transition into our present interglacial period of warmth. But, in addition, there is a strong chaotic variation of properties with a quasi-period of around 1500 years. We say chaotic because these millennial shifts look like anything but regular oscillations. Rather, they look like rapid, decade-long transitions between cold and warm climates followed by long interludes in one of the two states.

The best known example of these events is the Younger Dryas cooling of about 12,000 years ago, named for arctic wildflower remains identified in northern European sediments. This event began and ended within a decade and for its 1000 year duration the North Atlantic region was about 5°C colder.
 
Last edited:
Keef
I've always been intrigued by Britons' uncanny ability to convert back and forth in an instant. I can't do that. I have an idea, but I have to think for a second, and even that only applies to miles/kilometers per hour and their distance measurements.
Click to expand...

When they're thrust upon you every day you get used to it. They banned shopkeepers a few years ago from selling products in imperial measurements, but everyone still orders like that. I've never heard anyone asking for "450 grams of mince". It's a pound, always has been and always will be.

It's just convenient that a pound is roughly half a kilo or a pint is roughly 2/3 of a litre. Makes the maths easy. Not seen a pint of milk for yonks though, so that's one imperial quantity that's been killed off.

As for beer, I believe we use ounces in the US. You wouldn't know it at a bar. The choices are short, tall, and pitcher. :lol:
Click to expand...

Having "a pint" is definitely a very British thing.

Stevisiov
A good question that I would like to know the answer too (and I'm sure some people here might know the answer too): If an Ice age genuinely was imminent, i.e within a decade away, are there any signs that would absolutely guaranty that we would be in an ice age within a few years? As an extension to that question, how quickly could an ice age take affect, over the course of a year? decade? century?
Click to expand...

Have you seen Day After Tomorrow?! :lol:

I suspect we'll just have to see what the next few winters bring. I doubt we'll see an ice age in our lifetimes but we could quite possibly see winters getting longer and colder.
 
Dotini
My guess (I don't know) is a new Ice Age would be immediately preceded by a shut-down of the Gulf Stream current, encasing northern Europe in perpetual winter roughly 3 years before the full Ice Age descended.

http://www.whoi.edu/page.do?pid=12455&tid=282&cid=10046
Evidence for abrupt climate change is readily apparent in ice cores taken from Greenland and Antarctica. One sees clear indications of long-term changes discussed above, with CO² and proxy temperature changes associated with the last ice age and its transition into our present interglacial period of warmth. But, in addition, there is a strong chaotic variation of properties with a quasi-period of around 1500 years. We say chaotic because these millennial shifts look like anything but regular oscillations. Rather, they look like rapid, decade-long transitions between cold and warm climates followed by long interludes in one of the two states.

The best known example of these events is the Younger Dryas cooling of about 12,000 years ago, named for arctic wildflower remains identified in northern European sediments. This event began and ended within a decade and for its 1000 year duration the North Atlantic region was about 5°C colder.
Click to expand...

I have heard that the gulf stream would 'shut-down', although I can't imagine its will simply just turn off one day, surely it will be a more gradual process. I am curious about how much warning we would have about an imminent ice age. I'd imagine if we waited till the gulf stream shuts down to realise an ice age is upon us, surely we will already be in the process of an ice age and will well and truly have our pants around our ankles.
 
Stevisiov
I have heard that the gulf stream would 'shut-down', although I can't imagine its will simply just turn off one day, surely it will be a more gradual process. I am curious about how much warning we would have about an imminent ice age. I'd imagine if we waited till the gulf stream shuts down to realise an ice age is upon us, surely we will already be in the process of an ice age and will well and truly have our pants around our ankles.
Click to expand...

There are some fringe voices who are saying the Gulf Stream current is already damaged and partially shut down due to the BP oil spill of last year:
http://www.rense.com/navyDamaged.html

Whatever the truth of the matter, I am convinced the power of denial will cause humans in general to put off dealing with most any problem until it is directly at their throat. On the other hand, I'm also convinced that human resilience and adaptability will see us through most disasters, albeit in a reduced state.
 
Could you please find some less... insane.. sources for that? I think an exorcism might be in order for that site...

Any damage to the Gulf Stream may bring on another "Little Ice Age" affecting parts of the eastern seaboard and Europe... but the severe winters in the UK started long before the spill.

And... what would you have humanity do about it? Act in a futile manner to geo-engineer our climate, despite not having the resources to do so effectively? Or prepare for the consequences? While politicians seem quite willing to do the former, nobody seems to be doing anything with regards to the latter. They all seem to think that fanning into the wind will keep the storm from blowing our house down, when what we should be doing is building a better house.
 
niky

And... what would you have humanity do about it? Act in a futile manner to geo-engineer our climate, despite not having the resources to do so effectively? Or prepare for the consequences? While politicians seem quite willing to do the former, nobody seems to be doing anything with regards to the latter. They all seem to think that fanning into the wind will keep the storm from blowing our house down, when what we should be doing is building a better house.
Click to expand...

I adore this question! Unfortunately, I currently have no acceptable answer.
 
It's quite warm here in the UK as it happens. Just weather systems floating around the planet rather than an Ice Age. But yes we are due an Ice Age.
 
In summer we will get another image printed by the Daily Mail showing no snow, perhaps saying, "Ice Age gone catastrophically wrong as summer shows it's true strength.
".
 

Latest Posts

Back