Rotary Junkie
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If you have any more, post them. Also, post your opinion on the idea.
Import engines in American cars?
- Thread starter Rotary Junkie
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If you have any more, post them. Also, post your opinion on the idea.
- 834
American engines in Japanese cars = Fail.
Japaneses engines in American cars = Fail.
Japaneses engines in American cars = Fail.
- 3,770
- Boss-Barracuda
I completely agree with you. It's a disgrace either way
Rotary Junkie
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I think it works out.
American cars are either weak or nose-heavy. A lightweight Japanese six with some good power solves both problems nicely.
Japanese cars are generally either too expensive to build as drag cars, or don't have the capability to go fast without an engine swap anyhow. Chevy small-blocks remain the best power-per-dollar there is.
American cars are either weak or nose-heavy. A lightweight Japanese six with some good power solves both problems nicely.
Japanese cars are generally either too expensive to build as drag cars, or don't have the capability to go fast without an engine swap anyhow. Chevy small-blocks remain the best power-per-dollar there is.
- 3,770
- Boss-Barracuda
Wheres the competition in that though? Why don't I just go strip down a corvette and fit a Lamborghini V12 in there. Sounds great, performs great, but whats the point?
A good example of this is the Toyota Camry in Nascar and Japanese shelled funny cars in Drag racing. I find no problem with Japanese cars competing, in fact I'd greatly encourage it, but don't compete if you can't even use your own engine. You can't make an engine of your own that will compete, too bad, there's plenty of other motorsports out there.
I honestly find it very hard to even argue against it due to the fact that I would never think of someone to find that acceptable. To each his own I guess.
A good example of this is the Toyota Camry in Nascar and Japanese shelled funny cars in Drag racing. I find no problem with Japanese cars competing, in fact I'd greatly encourage it, but don't compete if you can't even use your own engine. You can't make an engine of your own that will compete, too bad, there's plenty of other motorsports out there.
I honestly find it very hard to even argue against it due to the fact that I would never think of someone to find that acceptable. To each his own I guess.
- 23,800
- Philippines
Who cares? If it's a good engine, and it's going into a good body, who gives a flying fig about what brand name is on either piece of the jigsaw?
Especially considering the archaic definition of "Domestic" versus "Import" merely refers to "Full sized" versus "compact"... a definition that's laughable in this day and age when publications like Sport Compact Tuner and Import Tuner carry articles about non-compacts like the 350Z and the GT-R, simply because they're "imports" and cars like the Cobalt and Neon, simply because they're "compact".
If you can produce more power with a bigger engine, go for it! If you can address a car's balance issues with a lighter engine that makes just as much power as the original one or more, go for it!
Nothing is more awesome than seeing a Mustang engine in a Ford Focus or an SR20DET in a bigger car... It's all good fun.
Especially considering the archaic definition of "Domestic" versus "Import" merely refers to "Full sized" versus "compact"... a definition that's laughable in this day and age when publications like Sport Compact Tuner and Import Tuner carry articles about non-compacts like the 350Z and the GT-R, simply because they're "imports" and cars like the Cobalt and Neon, simply because they're "compact".
If you can produce more power with a bigger engine, go for it! If you can address a car's balance issues with a lighter engine that makes just as much power as the original one or more, go for it!
Nothing is more awesome than seeing a Mustang engine in a Ford Focus or an SR20DET in a bigger car... It's all good fun.
- 3,770
- Boss-Barracuda
Who cares? If it's a good engine, and it's going into a good body, who gives a flying fig about what brand name is on either piece of the jigsaw?
Especially considering the archaic definition of "Domestic" versus "Import" merely refers to "Full sized" versus "compact"... a definition that's laughable in this day and age when publications like Sport Compact Tuner and Import Tuner carry articles about non-compacts like the 350Z and the GT-R, simply because they're "imports" and cars like the Cobalt and Neon, simply because they're "compact".
If you can produce more power with a bigger engine, go for it! If you can address a car's balance issues with a lighter engine that makes just as much power as the original one or more, go for it!
Nothing is more awesome than seeing a Mustang engine in a Ford Focus or an SR20DET in a bigger car... It's all good fun.
It's a lot more then just a name.
What do you mean by archaic definition. I'm pretty sure an American car has distinctive features relative to American car design and engineering and vice versa.
Sport Compact Tuner. It's easy to see that they put cars like the cobalt and neon in there because they are 'tuner' cars. You and I both know that publications like that focus on the 'tuner' crowd and therefore will carry full size cars such as skylines and supras. It's ridiculous to think that they'd have to choose only specific cars due to the title of the magazine.
I just don't get you people I guess. The way you think is just crazy from my point of view, so i'm honestly speechless. I'm done arguing my point, I don't have time or peace of mind for this.
Joey D
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Who cares? If it's a good engine, and it's going into a good body, who gives a flying fig about what brand name is on either piece of the jigsaw?
Especially considering the archaic definition of "Domestic" versus "Import" merely refers to "Full sized" versus "compact"... a definition that's laughable in this day and age when publications like Sport Compact Tuner and Import Tuner carry articles about non-compacts like the 350Z and the GT-R, simply because they're "imports" and cars like the Cobalt and Neon, simply because they're "compact".
If you can produce more power with a bigger engine, go for it! If you can address a car's balance issues with a lighter engine that makes just as much power as the original one or more, go for it!
Nothing is more awesome than seeing a Mustang engine in a Ford Focus or an SR20DET in a bigger car... It's all good fun.
Agree, so many cars now are produced elsewhere it doesn't even matter. Many "American" cars are built in Canada and Mexico and many "Japanese" cars are built in places like Ohio. I find it really to be ignorant when people go off and yell about it ruining the car or whatever because they don't understand this. The whole automotive world is under globalisation so who cares where the parts come from as long as they make the car awesome.
Guess where the new Camaro, the revival of the American Muscle car, is built? Canada, ya that's really support American workers. Or better yet what about the new awesome Pontiac G8, you know where that's built? Australia. The Aveo? China, Korea, Ukraine, or Poland depending on where you live. The HHR? Mexico. Ford Fusion? Mexico. Crown Vic? Canada. Chevy Avalanche? Mexico.
Guess where the American Civic is built? Ohio. The Camry? Kentucky and Indiana. The Altima? Tennessee and Mississippi.
So really if you care about American workers, American cars, and the pride of this countries work force you'd buy a Camry instead of a Fusion. And really engines are even more of a stretch. Cars have engines built from all over the world using parts stamped out in all sorts of countries and computers from others.
When engine swapping just put whatever engine works best for the car in.
- 10,620
- gtp_jimprower
It works, in some cases.
I personally prefer, when swapping motors, using one from the same make. But I do like the LeSupra.
(7M-GTE)
On the OTHER hand....
Uh...yeah....they used V8s in the stunt scenes. PHAIL.
Actually, I think that may be one of the primary reasons for the resistance.
Rotary Junkie
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"You people" huh?
I'm not an import guy... At least not most of the time. I despise almost everything that's being done in virtually all circles; With American cars, it's Pro Touring. Which means a first-gen Camaro with a hot 350 and a good suspension. With imports as late, it's the MAD TYTE JDM LOOK YO.
Anything that breaks up the monotony is nice. The idea is to be different, while sacrificing nothing, and I love that.
What do you lose when you drop a JZ into a Camaro or Mustang? Weight and to some the sound.
What is gained? Originality.
What do you lose swapping a Ford 4.6L DOHC into a first-gen Cefiro/Maxima with the RB20E? A little fuel economy.
Gained? Again, originality. As well as power gains up the wazoo sideways and a hell of a sleeper.
- 23,800
- Philippines
My mistake... I meant "Sport Compact Car"... really stupid of me... Mike K. would kill me if he were on this forum...
It's just funny... what's the difference between a 350Z and a Mustang? Both are sports cars, both have a large tuning market (though you won't see a 350Z feature in a Mustang mag) and an enthusiast base.The "Domestic versus Import" war is dead. Distinctive engineering? Four wheels, four shock absorbers, four springs, four brakes. One engine, one driveshaft per driven wheel, a steering wheel, pedals and shifter. Now if we were talking Renault Alpines or old Porsche 911s (or even new Porsche 911s)... now that's distinctive. The one distinctive thing about American cars is that GM is stubbornly pursuing OHV alone... last I looked, more American cars (not trucks, mind) had DOHC and SOHC than OHV. (Not an argument on which is better, just which is more prevalent). Rear beam axles? The Japanese still use those on their trucks, too, and most "imports" now sport rear beam axles instead of multi-links, for economy reasons. The Mustang already had IRS and DOHC a generation ago... but Ford axed the rear IRS for cost reasons... and they're mixing DOHC and SOHC in the line-up.
That Mustang is a good case in point for the death of the "Domestic". Sure, it's a high-displacement American block, but it's developed on a Jaguar platform. The Pontiac G8 is a rebadged Australian Holden. The 300C, Charger, Challenger, et al are developed on old Merc E-Class platforms. Cobalt, Prizm, Aura, Aveo, whatever... all European, Japanese or Korean cars.
Not that this is a one-way infusion. The Mazda3 benefits from a Ford/Volvo platform, and the MZRs are Mazda-tuned versions of the Ford Duratecs (only the base 1.6 MZR is actually a Mazda, but you don't have that one there). Many "Brits" and "Italians" are German underneath... and some European cars are straight rebadges of American metal.
----
True, most swappers tend to swap between models of the same make. It's easier to wire engines into cars whose instrument gauges will talk to the engine's ECU, and parts commonality makes the swap easier... but there are a few enterprising souls who've done wonderful jobs with a bit of welding and a lot of wiring. There's the LS1 Civic, the Kugel Komponents V8 Focus, the Ford SHOgun Festiva (not as clear-cut as you might think, because the Taurus SHO is an American car while the Festiva is a rebadged Mazda 121),
I've seen Nissan SR20s (and entire suspensions) swapped into European Ford Escorts, Porsche engines in VW Golfs, Nissan RBs in Mercs (the 190E makes an uncannily good drift-car, given some turbocharged shove), Mitsubishi Evolution engines in Honda Civics and all other sorts of nonsense.
While you get mad props from the fan boys if you do a swap "right"... Ford in a Ford, Chevy in a Chevy, Honda in a Honda, etcetera ad nauseum... but do an unorthodox swap and you'll have the tech junkies drooling all over your engine bay when you're cooling down on the track.
So swaps don't make sense... so what? They don't have to. All that matters is that the car is faster and more capable after the swap... whatever brand is on the engine, suspension, brakes or electronics... and however much it costs. People don't do swaps because they make sense. They do them just because they can.
ROAD_DOGG33J
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- holyc0w1
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I voted yay. An engine is an engine.
- 6,980
- old-guy64
Uhh,
At the risk of busting bubbles, there are enough cars that already have "foriegn" engines in them from the manufacturers.
Mazda and Ford liberally sprinkle the "corporate" 2.3 liter I4 thru-out both lines.
Does anyone remember the original Taurus SHO? I believe that it had a Yamaha engine.
The Chevy Acadia, is some Chinese concoction.
I could go on and on.
Who cares what's under the hood as long as it works?
Hell, imagine a Mazda Miata (first Gen) with a 4.6L V-8 out of a Mustang?
Can anyone say, "Carrol Shelby already did something like that back in the sixties"
And that little excercise in brand bastardization become one of the most famous cars ever.
I voted Yay! Toyota powered Elise FTW.
edit:
I have a couple of points of disagreement. Mustang on a Jaguar chassis? Niky, Niky, Niky Jags have been more sophistcated than Mustangs forever. Mustangs have been rocking a solid rear axle from the get go, and have yet to change. Jags have been rocking all independent suspension and inboard brakes.
Diablo
In some cases you have a point. It may be "sacreligious" to put anything but a Hemi in a Mopar.
But there are three types of automotive enthusiasts:
Domestic Guys - Ford, Chevy, Mopar, with the occasional AMC guy thrown in for good measure.
Domestic Guys - Generally broken down by Euro and JDM preferences
Car Guys - If it has four wheels and a motor, and is street, strip, or track ready, it's cool.
If you haven't guessed most of us fall into the last catagory.
If you want an eye-opening experience, see if you can find the move Dirty Mary, Crazy Larry. It's from the 1970's
There is a scene after Mary, Larry and the mechanic dude switch cars from the Chevy 4-door to a "Coke bottle" Charger.
When the cops ask the bystanders (who happen to be a bunch of car guys) what the getaway car was, all agreed it was a Charger. None agreed on what was under the hood. The answers were 440, 426Hemi, 351 Cleveland, 454. They were basing it on the sound of the engine.
The point being: They weren't just hanging on to the notion that they were in a Mopar, therefore it was Mopar powered. They were arguing over a bunch of engines that are known to be powerhouses. Manufacturers notwithstanding.
That was pretty eye opening to me as a kid and at that time a confirmed "Ford guy"
At the risk of busting bubbles, there are enough cars that already have "foriegn" engines in them from the manufacturers.
Mazda and Ford liberally sprinkle the "corporate" 2.3 liter I4 thru-out both lines.
Does anyone remember the original Taurus SHO? I believe that it had a Yamaha engine.
The Chevy Acadia, is some Chinese concoction.
I could go on and on.
Who cares what's under the hood as long as it works?
Hell, imagine a Mazda Miata (first Gen) with a 4.6L V-8 out of a Mustang?
Can anyone say, "Carrol Shelby already did something like that back in the sixties"
And that little excercise in brand bastardization become one of the most famous cars ever.
I voted Yay! Toyota powered Elise FTW.
edit:
I have a couple of points of disagreement. Mustang on a Jaguar chassis? Niky, Niky, Niky Jags have been more sophistcated than Mustangs forever. Mustangs have been rocking a solid rear axle from the get go, and have yet to change. Jags have been rocking all independent suspension and inboard brakes.
Diablo
In some cases you have a point. It may be "sacreligious" to put anything but a Hemi in a Mopar.
But there are three types of automotive enthusiasts:
Domestic Guys - Ford, Chevy, Mopar, with the occasional AMC guy thrown in for good measure.
Domestic Guys - Generally broken down by Euro and JDM preferences
Car Guys - If it has four wheels and a motor, and is street, strip, or track ready, it's cool.
If you haven't guessed most of us fall into the last catagory.
If you want an eye-opening experience, see if you can find the move Dirty Mary, Crazy Larry. It's from the 1970's
There is a scene after Mary, Larry and the mechanic dude switch cars from the Chevy 4-door to a "Coke bottle" Charger.
When the cops ask the bystanders (who happen to be a bunch of car guys) what the getaway car was, all agreed it was a Charger. None agreed on what was under the hood. The answers were 440, 426Hemi, 351 Cleveland, 454. They were basing it on the sound of the engine.
The point being: They weren't just hanging on to the notion that they were in a Mopar, therefore it was Mopar powered. They were arguing over a bunch of engines that are known to be powerhouses. Manufacturers notwithstanding.
That was pretty eye opening to me as a kid and at that time a confirmed "Ford guy"
- 3,770
- Boss-Barracuda
I honestly don't find it that bad as long as the swaps stay within the origin of the engine. The Porsche engine in a VW van is a badass swap, and I have complete respect for that. An evo engine in a civic, good on you. However, when you start to mix engines between countries, that's when it just gets to be ridiculous in my opinion.
I actually don't even agree with swapping brands in American cars that have the option of a perfectly good engine. I could drop a 427 BB crate motor in my car, but that's absolutely retarded. There's plenty of other Mopar engines I could choose from, some that equate or surpass the 427 (I'm not planning on ever changing my motor btw). When it comes down to cars like a Geo or a Saturn though, go ahead. A 427 in a car that was never designed to perform would be a treat to watch. Hell, it would even be interesting to see a civic with a 427 in it, though I'd still call the guy a wanker.
Now that I think of it a bit more, my real point is that if it's all in good fun, go ahead, but when it gets down to race time, that kind of crap won't cut it. Like I had said in an earlier post, the Japanese shelled funny cars that are competing in drag racing (and Nascar) are ultimately unfair in the end. If that is really a Japanese motor, then I am completely amazed, but there's an extremely large chance that it's not. You can't just take a motor and then call it something else. Why don't I just go buy an Slr and stick a Camaro shell over it. I can say it's a Camaro all I want, but it's not, and if I were to compete against cars like the Slr (and the like) it would ultimately be completely unfair to give the Camaro the credit if it won.
I actually don't even agree with swapping brands in American cars that have the option of a perfectly good engine. I could drop a 427 BB crate motor in my car, but that's absolutely retarded. There's plenty of other Mopar engines I could choose from, some that equate or surpass the 427 (I'm not planning on ever changing my motor btw). When it comes down to cars like a Geo or a Saturn though, go ahead. A 427 in a car that was never designed to perform would be a treat to watch. Hell, it would even be interesting to see a civic with a 427 in it, though I'd still call the guy a wanker.
Now that I think of it a bit more, my real point is that if it's all in good fun, go ahead, but when it gets down to race time, that kind of crap won't cut it. Like I had said in an earlier post, the Japanese shelled funny cars that are competing in drag racing (and Nascar) are ultimately unfair in the end. If that is really a Japanese motor, then I am completely amazed, but there's an extremely large chance that it's not. You can't just take a motor and then call it something else. Why don't I just go buy an Slr and stick a Camaro shell over it. I can say it's a Camaro all I want, but it's not, and if I were to compete against cars like the Slr (and the like) it would ultimately be completely unfair to give the Camaro the credit if it won.
Rotary Junkie
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Uh, I'm not sure the 13B has the torque to move them! well, a Camaro, anyway...the Corvette's pretty light.
Rotary Junkie
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Jim: It's called gearing, m'boy. 4.56 gears in the rear diff along with a wide-ratio T56 and you're set.
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if it actually works out cheaper and better than just tuning the standard engine then i guess its alright, but how often does that happen
Rotary Junkie
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Very often when it's an American engine/trans going into a Japanese car, but usually notsomuch the other way around.
And that's just because Japanese engines known for making power are popular, and expensive because of it. Parts aren't cheap either.
- 6,980
- old-guy64
My only issue with the videos that start this whole thing off, show a "garage queen" and a "dyno beast".
I wanna see them run on the road.
While I don't doubt that they work, 500HP on the dyno is good, putting on the ground and banging out low e.t. on the strip or road course tell me the project was successful.
I wanna see them run on the road.
While I don't doubt that they work, 500HP on the dyno is good, putting on the ground and banging out low e.t. on the strip or road course tell me the project was successful.
Joey D
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How about a few examples of awesome cross cultural engine swaps?
1959 Austin Healy with s2000 engine
Mini Tec's Honda-powered Mini, a rather common thing to do it seems.
69 Wagoneer with a Ferrari Daytona V12
mgb-gt with sr20det
DeTomaso Pantera with BMW M5 V8
And to see more visit here:
http://www.internationaltrs.com/showthread.php?t=97
1959 Austin Healy with s2000 engine
Mini Tec's Honda-powered Mini, a rather common thing to do it seems.
69 Wagoneer with a Ferrari Daytona V12
mgb-gt with sr20det
DeTomaso Pantera with BMW M5 V8
And to see more visit here:
http://www.internationaltrs.com/showthread.php?t=97
- 8,480
- P_Balance
I voted no. What a waste of engines.
EDIT: Every single one of those cars are pure awesome, except for the intake on the Mini. WTF were they thinking?[/color]
EDIT: Every single one of those cars are pure awesome, except for the intake on the Mini. WTF were they thinking?[/color]
Rotary Junkie
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Bugeye Sprite! With balls!
Perfect.
Perfect.
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