In-Car View
- Thread starter Kazanski
- 18 comments
- 3,306 views
- 1,116
- Gassolini
I'm with you there. Sadly, I end up using the rather immersion robbing bonnet view. The cockpit has too little field of view to be usable IMO. A few simple things could change this:
- adjustable seating position: fore/aft, up/down
- adjustable FOV
- look to apex
- movement due to G force
It very simple; just copy the GTR2 cockpit mechanics
DJ
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- adjustable seating position: fore/aft, up/down
- adjustable FOV
- look to apex
- movement due to G force
It very simple; just copy the GTR2 cockpit mechanics
DJ
--
- 6,064
- Simcoeace
The cockpit view is definitely too restricted - if you try an open car like the 333SP the view feels much better. However I think ALL cockpit views tend to feel overly restrictive: IRL your peripheral vision & sense of depth perception give your "view" a much more expansive feel.
I think moving the point of view further forward would help with with FC.
I think moving the point of view further forward would help with with FC.
- 165
- Host_Killer, DeltaBravo-Opr8r
You've never been in a real GT car have you Kazanski? Not trying to be rude, but if you have you would realize the in car view is actually very good. If they were to make the game more accurate, they would have you looking thru a helmet visor. The Ferrari FXX is very accurate as related to GT cars (never actually been in a FXX or Enzo).
Cheers,
Host_Killer
(11 Characters)
Cheers,
Host_Killer
(11 Characters)
- 165
- Host_Killer, DeltaBravo-Opr8r
Yes, YES I HAVE. Thank you very much. I worked for PacWest Hollywood (CART) Racing Team, Target Chip Ganassi Racing. I've driven an IRL car, Toyota Atlantic, and CART car. As far as GT cars... been in a Ferrari F355 & 348 on USGP @ IMS. Driven a Corvette C6.R at Putnam Park. Attended the Skip Barber & Derek Daly's Racing Schools. So I do know of what I speak...
I don't post silly little gripes on the internet - complaining about completely ignorant topics. This will be my only response to your petty little insult.
you obviously didnt learn anything?!? the view is terrible. Have a look at GT5P or even F355 Challenge on Dreamcast, much better. Honestly, driving in a GT car doesn't change the fact that the view is terrible for the game...it's as if the Camera is mounted behind the drivers heard instead of a persons view.
That's because it's giving you propper sense of speed. It's on track with the original F355 Challenge game and it's one of the best features of this title.
Go and watch some real-life in-cockpit cams and be amazed how everything is crawling
I'm not unaware that in real life things do move slower than the sense of speed you get from games like NFS or even GRID. Unfortunately in FC, the difference between the other views (bonnet, bumper, chase views) and that of the cockpit is so much so that I don't think it's the proper sense of speed- I think it has to do with bad coding.
- 814
- Goes_To_11 GTP_GoesTo11
I think its just field of view. The larger the field of view, the faster the sense of speed. If you had wrap around monitors that you could see out of your peripheral vision, it would appear even faster. If you have GT5P take a look at the GT-R nurburgring videos. It looks like the car is going really slow. It doesn't seem to jive with what the speedometer says. You get the same decrease in the perception of how fast the car is going with a real life video as you do in the video game. This suggests to me that it is not coding.
I don't like the cockpit view because it takes up too much of your field of vision. Things that in real life would mostly be in your peripheral vision such as the steering wheel and roof, take up a large portion of the screen.
- 4,004
- Croatia
Host_Killer, do not get too excited - you can't change some people's oppions, no matter how hard you try.
When somebody have an illusion that 240 km/h in real racing car should be like Wipeout or Burnout, you can't change it. As well as you can't change those people who just can't handle the fact that their POW is shrinked by cockpit, as well as handle different driving mechanic due to the fact they're not sitting in the middle of car any more - so they have to cope with exsitance of left/right side of the car.
I agree with you - the POW is fine as it is, and I find the sense of speed form cockpit almost perfect. It's not good as it was in orginal F355 game, but it's still the best out there - even in GT5
sense of speed is still too dramatic, thus unrealistic.However, I'd also vote for some small adjustments to Ow, especially in ability to move it approx. 10 cm forward and 10 cm down. everything else is just fine.
Congratulation on your track record, it's always a pleasure to have some opinios form people who ACTUALLY have driven races in other worlds than virtual
- 50
- Canberra
- JesseDeya
That's an impressive track history (excuse the pun) but I think you're missing the point. Mearly replicating the exact POV in a sim doesn't make it a good game design choice.
As I'm sure you'll agree, in real life you have not only peripheral vision, but the ability to turn your head left and right, even up and down (accepting the restrictions of HANS these days).
The inability to do that in a computer game (I hate the left and right views- they are too fast and too wide), coupled with the complete lack of 'seat of the pants' feel means you're at a distinct disadvantage when it comes to spatial awareness. Moving a cockpit view forward and implementing a better left/right view method is the compromise developers HAVE to make if they want people to have a fighting chance.
There is no reason they couldn't have both anyway, keep the current view for the purists like you, and implement a second cockpit view for those willing to accept the compromise between reality and playability.
This is the exact same issue people have with flight sims, and they have had better POVs for years. If you've ever used a TrackIR you will know what I mean. A fixed POV buried deep in the cockpit (any cockpit), and a rigid head is so 1998.
- 1,116
- Gassolini
Folks, if you who have not tried a cockpit view like the one in e.g. GTR2, you should really download a demo (or just get the game...). I'm using GTR2 as an example because I know it well, and IMO they nailed a few things pretty well with that one. Some other newer sims also have dynamic viewpoints.
Just as the cars have pretty much all the dynamics simulated well, moving on the suspension etc.., it's a natural step to go for a dynamic view point too. For those unaware, In GTR2 the drivers head will move slightly according to the G-forces, moving forward/backward under heavy braking/acceleration, up/down in bumps and sideways in turns. This adds immensely to the immersion factor and the added visual feedback enables me (and many others!) to get much better connected to the car. There's also the look-to-apex function which I really like. All the view stuff is adjustable, of course. I tend to adjust my view a bit forward and turn off the steering wheel graphics, add a bit of head movement and some look to apex.
For the record, my best racing sim experience is the Ferrari 550 in GTR2, screaming around Donington
It should be rather easy to implement a dynamic viewpoint in code, although tuning it and getting it right may require some work. Anyway, there's some good cockpits views out there already that are setting standards that IMO should be considered.
Edit: I just played a bit more GT5P (new game for me!) and the cockpit view isn't at all bad. The track fills the width of the screen near the bottom, which I perceive as a natural view. There's a bit of G force head movement, although somewhat vague compared to GTR2. The whole game is, as they say, strangely clinical - in that department FC wins out
DJ
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Just as the cars have pretty much all the dynamics simulated well, moving on the suspension etc.., it's a natural step to go for a dynamic view point too. For those unaware, In GTR2 the drivers head will move slightly according to the G-forces, moving forward/backward under heavy braking/acceleration, up/down in bumps and sideways in turns. This adds immensely to the immersion factor and the added visual feedback enables me (and many others!) to get much better connected to the car. There's also the look-to-apex function which I really like. All the view stuff is adjustable, of course. I tend to adjust my view a bit forward and turn off the steering wheel graphics, add a bit of head movement and some look to apex.
For the record, my best racing sim experience is the Ferrari 550 in GTR2, screaming around Donington
It should be rather easy to implement a dynamic viewpoint in code, although tuning it and getting it right may require some work. Anyway, there's some good cockpits views out there already that are setting standards that IMO should be considered.
Edit: I just played a bit more GT5P (new game for me!) and the cockpit view isn't at all bad. The track fills the width of the screen near the bottom, which I perceive as a natural view. There's a bit of G force head movement, although somewhat vague compared to GTR2. The whole game is, as they say, strangely clinical - in that department FC wins out
DJ
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Host_Killer, do not get too excited - you can't change some people's oppions, no matter how hard you try.
When somebody have an illusion that 240 km/h in real racing car should be like Wipeout or Burnout, you can't change it. As well as you can't change those people who just can't handle the fact that their POW is shrinked by cockpit, as well as handle different driving mechanic due to the fact they're not sitting in the middle of car any more - so they have to cope with exsitance of left/right side of the car.
I agree with you - the POW is fine as it is, and I find the sense of speed form cockpit almost perfect. It's not good as it was in orginal F355 game, but it's still the best out there - even in GT5
However, I'd also vote for some small adjustments to Ow, especially in ability to move it approx. 10 cm forward and 10 cm down. everything else is just fine.
Congratulation on your track record, it's always a pleasure to have some opinios form people who ACTUALLY have driven races in other worlds than virtual
If anything, the real life video looks more dramatic than the one from GT5P. When I drive the car in FC, what bothers me is that you don't get any sense of dynamic- there's no gradual increase or decrease in speed. So it feels as if you're crawling.
