Iran holding 15 UK servicemen

[KSaiyu]

http://news.sky.com/skynews/article/0,,30000-1257281,00.html

Iran says it took 15 British servicemen hostage at gunpoint because they had crossed into Iranian waters.

The eight Royal Navy sailors and seven Marines were seized by Iranian troops while carrying out a routine inspection in what the British say were Iraqi waters....

It's been a few days now, and it doesn't seem to be improving - the latest news:

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/british_seized_iran;_ylt=AixNhosfXCEIWdzjMNZUUjNSw60A

RIYADH, Saudi Arabia - Iran's foreign minister said Wednesday that Britain must admit that its 15 sailors and marines entered Iranian waters in order to resolve a standoff over their capture by the Mideast nation.....

What do you guys think of the situation and the way in which it's being handled - apparently the American forces were surprised by the non-use of force when they were initially captured. Do you think this approach has led to Iran having a bargaining chip to use against the West or has it avoided a possibly bigger confrontation that could have made security and relations much worse?

 

[a6m5]

I don't see how this would be a bargaining chip, but I'm sure the Iranians have a play written up that they are going to run.

From what I understand, both sides are accusing each other of operating outside their territorial waters. The article says that the British have released the GPS readout, plus have gotten confirmation from the Indian-flagged ship that was being searched, proving that they were inside Iraqi waters.

Iranian claims that the GPS from the British boats shows that they were infact inside the Iranian waters. But I think it's entirely possible for the Iranians to show the readout of the GPS after the boat has been captured, already on the way back to Iran.

My feeling is that the Iranians are either mistaken, or are lying. The British and the third-party ship is claiming that these captured sailors and marines were inside Iraqi waters. What reason could the Royal Navy have to violate Iranian waters? And weren't they in the inflatable boats? I just don't see it. If I was one of the sailors, and somebody suggest taking our little rubber boat to the Iranian waters, I would probably punch him in the face.

 

[KSaiyu]

I don't see how this would be a bargaining chip, but I'm sure the Iranians have a play written up that they are going to run.

I read that in a newspaper in which they predicted they may use them to bargain for the release of revolutionary guards that are being held by the US.

 

[Duke]

Nothing bad enough going on for them to hate us over at the moment, so I guess they need to manufacture something.

To quote my mother, "Shut up now or I'll give you something to cry about."

Tactical nukes are looking better every day.

 

[a6m5]

I read that in a newspaper in which they predicted they may use them to bargain for the release of revolutionary guards that are being held by the US.

Ah, that would qualify it as a bargaining chip then. I hope they know what they are doing. This is a pretty big negative publicity.

 

[Mark T]

Reminds of the film Bond film Tomorrow Never Dies. Someone has been tampering with the GPS decoders.

This could really turn nasty if it goes on much longer.

 

[Touring Mars]

I think the Iranians are playing a petty and stupid game, using the British military presence (perfectly legal, under a UN mandate) in the Gulf to their advantage and effectively kidnapping some of our troops in retaliation for the recent arrests of Iranians in Iraq and (possibly) to show that any encroachment (real or otherwise) into Iranian waters by 'anyone who might just happen to be in the area' (the US are conducting wargames in the Gulf this week) will result in some sabre-rattling.

The Iranians released their own GPS coordinates of where the arrests took place, which placed the incident well inside Iraqi waters (just as the UK have claimed). Realising the mistake, the Iranians then changed their co-ordinates Basically, they have painted themselves into a corner and are making themselves look very very stupid indeed. It looks like they are prepared to release the servicemen so long as the British military 'admit' their mistake and issue an apology (to allow the Iranians to save face in an altogether embarrassing episode), but unexpectedly the British government are saying "Why should we apologise when it is Iran who have made the mistake?' The sensible thing to do would be to go along with them and do it their way, and get the troops home as quickly as possible... this would not involve any loss of face on our behalf - quite the reverse... it would make the Iranians look like bullies, forcing an apology out of the UK for something they themselves have done wrong. What will actually happen, however, is probably more likely to be that the UK will stick to their guns and increase the pressure on Iran, the troops will probably be held for a long time, and diplomatic relations will sour even further than they already have.

In any event, whether the Iranians are simply mistaken, or plain lying through their teeth, parading military prisoners on TV like that is wrong.

 

[Sureboss]

The fact the waters are a disputed area doesn't help matters in the slightest. The Iranians will claim in their waters, we will claim they weren't. It'll go on for a few weeks and it'll eventually be resolved. We haven't got the resources to do military action on Iran (Not that that'd work anyway).

I have to say the interview by Faye Turner was scripted in a way Hollywood would be proud of!

 

[kennythebomb]

Ah, that would qualify it as a bargaining chip then. I hope they know what they are doing. This is a pretty big negative publicity.

Somehow I don't think Iran really cares about saving face here. Negative publicity? Please.

 

[Mark T]

I was waiting for this to happen. People are on the street now calling for the 15 captured to be hung. http://news.sky.com/skynews/article/0,,30000-1258238,00.html

 

[kennythebomb]

I was waiting for this to happen. People are on the street now calling for the 15 captured to be hung. http://news.sky.com/skynews/article/0,,30000-1258238,00.html

Iran gives me the impression of playing with a toddler. Their actions seem so childish.

 

[Touring Mars]

That is simply the most pathetic thing I have ever seen. How sad and pathetic that the voices of a small bunch of sabre-rattling idiots should be heard over those of decent Iranian people. If there is any hanging to be done, it should be these fools hanging their own heads in shame.

The fact that the release of the servicemen is 'in doubt' simply because of the 'fuss' (reaction) made by the British government speaks volumes. This fact alone goes to show that this has absolutely nothing to do with the legality, legitimacy, whatever of the UK presence in the Gulf in the first place. Why should what Tony Blair says in the House of Commons have any influence over whether/when the soldiers are released??

 

[Tornado]

This could start war with Iran. Especially if Iran even begins to ponder about thinking about performing any physical harm to those soldiers.

 

[kennythebomb]

This could start war with Iran. Especially if Iran even begins to ponder about thinking about performing any physical harm to those soldiers.

It would be a blessing for us. Imagine actually fighting an organized country instead of suicidial guerrilas!

 

[Sureboss]

This could start war with Iran. Especially if Iran even begins to ponder about thinking about performing any physical harm to those soldiers.

Britain isn't going to war with another country. If anything happened to those soldiers it'd either be a combined military strike with many other UN countries (we have the majoritys backing in this instance) or and I highly doubt it a nuclear striker.

We're not going in, if we go alone.

It won't come to war imo.

 

[Danoff]

Britain should go to war if their soldiers are killed or held indefinitely, but they won't. They'll make sure that France and Germany agree with them before they do anything... and they won't.

If these were Israeli soldiers, Iran would already be under fire.

 

[kennythebomb]

Britain should go to war if their soldiers are killed or held indefinitely, but they won't. They'll make sure that France and Germany agree with them before they do anything... and they won't.

If these were Israeli soldiers, Iran would already be under fire.

I'm almost hoping Iran beheads them and makes a public spectacle of it so the western world unites and ravages Iran.

And I agree that Israel wouldn't take their ****.

 

[YSSMAN]

I'm almost hoping Iran beheads them and makes a public spectacle of it so the western world unites and ravages Iran.

And I agree that Israel wouldn't take their ****.

Well, I wouldn't hope that anything would happen to them, but I see your point...

At least to me, it would appear as though Iran wants to start something with a western power, which would probably give them an excuse to bomb Israel, etc. Or maybe better-yet form them, invade Iraq on their way to Israel, of course after a quick stop for lunch in Syria where they meet and greet, and then plow Israel down.

If this is the begining of the end, I'm happy to know that the West will theoretically band together and fight off the evil of the world once again. We may go down, but to hell with it, at least we will have fun in the process...

...And who wants to bet that if anything happens in Iran, Venezuela does something stupid in South America as well? Yeah, like Brazil can stop them alone...

Strategic bombing of Iran should be great. Hopefully we (the West) can mobilize the moderate public to rise against their government and re-install a democratic society in Iran.

...Well, we'll see what happens...

 

[a6m5]

The Iranians released their own GPS coordinates of where the arrests took place, which placed the incident well inside Iraqi waters (just as the UK have claimed). Realising the mistake, the Iranians then changed their co-ordinates Basically, they have painted themselves into a corner and are making themselves look very very stupid indeed.

Is this true? If so, the prisoners should be released immediately, no buts about it. Official apology from Iran is a must.

It looks like they are prepared to release the servicemen so long as the British military 'admit' their mistake and issue an apology (to allow the Iranians to save face in an altogether embarrassing episode), but unexpectedly the British government are saying "Why should we apologise when it is Iran who have made the mistake?' The sensible thing to do would be to go along with them and do it their way, and get the troops home as quickly as possible... this would not involve any loss of face on our behalf - quite the reverse... it would make the Iranians look like bullies, forcing an apology out of the UK for something they themselves have done wrong. What will actually happen, however, is probably more likely to be that the UK will stick to their guns and increase the pressure on Iran, the troops will probably be held for a long time, and diplomatic relations will sour even further than they already have.

If it was indeed proven that Iranians captured the servicemen in Iraqi waters, then the British government can not admit any wrongdoings they did not commit. The British government issuing an apology might sound politically correct thing to do, but if they did that, they would be going on the record admitting that their military operated inside a country they had no business being in. IMO, even if the Iranians kill every single hostages, they can not do that.

Also, if the hostages are harmed in any way, British military has to go in. Danoff might be right, but I'd be really dissapointed, if no action were taken.

 

[Solid Fro]

The British already have a right to go in. Iran kidnapped them in international waters, paraded them around on television, and forced them against their will, which are all illegal under international law.

Iran imports 40% of their gasoline. A blockade can break their country in half. There are already two US carrier battlegroups in the Persian Gulf, the Stennis and the Eisenhower.

 

[Mark T]

When you look at the situation, it almost seems as though Iran planned the whole thing. It's almost as if they wanted to cause trouble.

 

[Sureboss]

Is this true? If so, the prisoners should be released immediately, no buts about it. Official apology from Iran is a must.


If it was indeed proven that Iranians captured the servicemen in Iraqi waters, then the British government can not admit any wrongdoings they did not commit. The British government issuing an apology might sound politically correct thing to do, but if they did that, they would be going on the record admitting that their military operated inside a country they had no business being in. IMO, even if the Iranians kill every single hostages, they can not do that.

Also, if the hostages are harmed in any way, British military has to go in. Danoff might be right, but I'd be really dissapointed, if no action were taken.

The hostages being harmed is a long way away tbh. Iran would be idiots to harm them.

 

[Touring Mars]

Indeed they would. Similarly, military action is pretty much out of the question at the moment. However, anyone who is in any doubt that the Iranians are playing silly buggers would do well to read the latest statement issued by one of the captured soldiers...

"Unfortunately during the course of our mission we entered Iranian waters. Even through our wrongdoing, they have still treated us well and humanely, which I am and always will be eternally grateful," the letter said.

"I ask representatives of the House of Commons after the government had promised this type of incident would not happen again why have they let this occur and why has the government not been questioned over this? Isn't it time for us to start withdrawing forces from Iraq and let them determine their own future?"

What??? Do the Iranians really expect anyone to swallow this, or even take it remotely seriously? Do they honestly think that people would believe a UK marine would say something like this publicly of their own accord? This is basically cheap, real-life ventriloquism... And you don't even have to look very hard to see Ahmadinejad's lips move...

 

[DuckRacer]

The hostages being harmed is a long way away tbh. Iran would be idiots to harm them.

Yeah, well, they're also the same country who wants to nuke Israel back to the 17th Century. I wouldn't count on common sense to keep the soldiers safe.

 

[KSaiyu]

Is this true? If so, the prisoners should be released immediately, no buts about it. Official apology from Iran is a must.

Yeah it's true, they were originally over 1.5 nautical miles outside of Iranian waters and then in the updated co-ordinates Iran used the ship was positioned more northerly and suddenly past Iraqi waters.

 

[Sureboss]

Yeah, well, they're also the same country who wants to nuke Israel back to the 17th Century. I wouldn't count on common sense to keep the soldiers safe.

Fair point, but very different circumstances.

There's also a difference between wanting to do something and actually doing it.

Iran are small fry.

 

[a6m5]

When you look at the situation, it almost seems as though Iran planned the whole thing. It's almost as if they wanted to cause trouble.

Agreed. And like Chris(Touring Mars) noted, Iranians act is little too obvious. Are they really that dumb that this is all they got? I think otherwise.

KSaiyu: Thanks for the confirmation. 👍

 

[YSSMAN]

The British already have a right to go in. Iran kidnapped them in international waters, paraded them around on television, and forced them against their will, which are all illegal under international law.

Iran imports 40% of their gasoline. A blockade can break their country in half. There are already two US carrier battlegroups in the Persian Gulf, the Stennis and the Eisenhower.

Certainly so, but we can pretty much be certain that the UK won't do anything without the consent of the US, or at least their EU and NATO allies... I know we'd be happy to lend air-support, and I'm sure Israel is chomping at the bit to attack Iran...

...But on the subject of strategy, I've heard much of the same thing. They were talking on TV last night and this morning that if we cut off the single pipeline and refinery that carries the gasoline into Iran, we could have them on their knees in a matter of days. Only problem is, they would probably be happy to turn off the crude tap, and if they do, chances are Venezuela will as well...

I say we let our European friends do the ground work, we'll take the skies and share the water with the British. It should be fun... (lol)

 

[Danoff]

They were talking on TV last night and this morning that if we cut off the single pipeline and refinery that carries the gasoline into Iran, we could have them on their knees in a matter of days. Only problem is, they would probably be happy to turn off the crude tap, and if they do, chances are Venezuela will as well...

Though, of course, Venezuela would have to consider the consequences of that. And for Iran turning off the tap would only hurt them more.

They would probably cut us off, but I think it would be good for us. Let's do it 👍

Just kidding. I think it's warranted if the hostages are killed, but not until then.

 

[KSaiyu]

wtf....

Suggesting the diplomatic standoff was not near a solution, President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad underlined Iranian displeasure that Britain had turned to the Security Council and the European Union for support over the detentions.

"After the arrest of these people, the British government, instead of apologizing and expressing regret, over the action taken, started to claim that we are in their debt and shouted in different international councils," Mahmoud Ahmadinejad was quoted as saying by state radio.

"But this is not the legal and logical way for this issue," he said in a speech to a rally in Khuzestan, a province on the Iraqi border area where the Britons were seized.

So for showing concern about "sabre-rattling" in response to an ambassador telling us legal proceedings have began and may lead to a trial, their President is displeased with us?!

This is crazy.