Is it really worth it (taking on HMCTS)?

  • Thread starter KSaiyu
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KSaiyu

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The story begins in spring 2013. Travelling back on the A40 at around midnight I'm caught speeding (at around the hanger lane tunnel for anyone familiar with west London) and pulled over after exiting a roundabout. The cops are nice enough and very understanding and give me a fine for the speeding (reduced if payed early) and instructions to bring my licence to a police station for points to be endorsed.

Fine paid a few days later, I turn up to my local station with my licence and am told to call a number since they are unable to add points as this must be done through the number given. I'm warned this number never works, and am also given an alternative number to call. Sure enough the original number never goes through in the days following, so I use the alternative number - except that doesn't go through either. For a week I try this, calling both numbers, then eventually give up thinking they'll add the points to my licence on the database and ask for the hard copy later.

Months go by until I receive a bailiff letter for unpaid court fines out of the blue. Investigating the cause, while also trying to appease the bailiffs I discover that I was due in court in September 2013, and a trial was heard in my absence. Confused I dig deeper, to discover they had sent my summons to the wrong address. Still confused over the reason for the summons (I'm repeatedly told it's a "speeding case") I finally talk to someone who actually listens to my point that I paid the speeding fine and am told it was because I failed to hand my licence in. Now we're getting somewhere..

I'm told I can either pay the bailiffs, who were called for my non-attendance to court + the court fine (rather stupid option), or go to court to give a Statutory Declaration swearing that I had no knowledge I had been summoned to court. I pick the latter, swear to the Magistrates that HMCTS sent my summons to the wrong address and am given a new court date to argue my case for not handing my licence in. Oh, and during all this the bailiffs actually turn up at my house leaving a letter saying they are entitled to take posessions to the value of what I owe (finally dropped after I prove it was an error of the courts).

March 2014. Just before my trial I'm asked by the clerk whether I'd like to plead guilty to the offence I'm charged with. "What offence", I ask. "Speeding". "That's not why I'm here.." I tell her. I try to explain that I paid the fine for speeding but am met with bemusement and asked, point blankedly, do I admit to speeding. Naturally I say yes and wait to speak to someone with more authority, and hopefully more sense. The lead magistrate (there are three, one speaks) has none of it. I explain over and over that I'm not here to answer for the speeding, but that I didn't hand my licence in. She becomes confused and asks the legal advisor (I didn't know this but magistrates don't have to be legally qualified). She proceeds to wax on about the speed limit and my knowledge of it and gives me a sentence of around £250, saying that if I could prove I paid the fine the year before this could be reimbursed. Peeved I pay the fine (the legal advisor managed to get me 28 days to pay it off rather than the standard week, probably sensing the magistrate's incompetence) on the day and work to getting proof of payment of the original fine for speeding.

Several weeks of dealing with clueless phone operators and different department emails I'm told I will be given back the money for the original, lower fine. This confirmation is the last email I receive and I am told to wait up to a month for payment. Money not received 2 months later I send emails, but don't get a reply (well I do, but it's to "check the bank account you paid the original fine with", as if I hadn't thought of that). Phoning the court I am told my best course is to appeal the sentence in writing. Which leads us neatly to my latest letter:

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Just to troll me even more I'm not even given the "additional form" as stated, just 3 copies of the appeal notice.

I don't even care if I'm given a similar fine for not handing in my licence, I just want to argue the case for which I was brought to court. But really, is it worth the hassle?
 
What a mess. I don't know much about British government, but if it happened to me I'd just pay the fine and be done with it. Seems like arguing it would be futile.
 
I would accept the payback of the original fine and decline the new one.

And who decided to give you your money back? You already said you were guilty, how can they even do this?
 
Sounds like you've fallen into the grip of an un-interested Governmental agency.:eek::D

I doubt that you can win an appeal of the fine for missing the original court case. Usually the taffic laws will have a clause that holds them harmless for mailings that don't reach the intented defendent.

Something like:

"A notice shall be deemed for the purposes of this subsection, to have been served on a person if it was sent by registered post or recorded delivery service addressed to him at his last known address, notwithstanding that the notice was returned as undelivered or was for any other reason not received by him."

So if they sent the notice to a previous address of yours, they have complied with their requirements in regard to giving you "notice".

Reading thru the August 21st notice, my guess is that they have mistakenly convicted you twice for speeding!!:(

I doubt that you will be able to do anything more than get one of these fines refunded.

Good luck!
GTsail
 
a) Let the government extort money with menaces.
b) Fight, and lose three years of your life for a mumbled, insincere apology.
c) Cry like a little bitch.

I'm a fan of c, or possibly d) Pull the race card (especially if you're white: confuse 'em into an apology! :dopey:).





Um... a real answer? I honestly don't know, but I'm not a fan of our government for many reasons, so my instinct would be to at least try to take a few down with me. Good luck however much you fight it. 👍
 
Wow, well you've really been screwed there :( The only thing I would say is that after the number(s) didn't work you maybe should have gone back to the station to explain the impossibility of the situation?

That aside (since time cannot be turned back) surely the original offence will have some paperwork to it that can be traced back to the officer that issued it, the one who took payment of the fine and (maybe) the one who gave you the number(s) at the station?

All i can say otherwise is good luck if you decide to fight it further.
 
Have you consulted a Professional legal advice/Citizens Advice Bureau over this? It seems like an arse and elbow situation. Also was the wrong address a previous address, or a totally random address where you have never been a resident, registered or anything that could link you to it?
 
Wow, well you've really been screwed there :( The only thing I would say is that after the number(s) didn't work you maybe should have gone back to the station to explain the impossibility of the situation?

That aside (since time cannot be turned back) surely the original offence will have some paperwork to it that can be traced back to the officer that issued it, the one who took payment of the fine and (maybe) the one who gave you the number(s) at the station?

All i can say otherwise is good luck if you decide to fight it further.
I agree, in hindsight that's what I should have done, and would have accepted the fine if they listened to my defence. As it stands I now have a repayment of a fine that hasn't been re-payed and the prospect of involvement of a higher court if I want the magistrates' incompetence exposed.
 
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