Is it time to bin Sport Mode?

[simsimsheree]

I see little but complaining about the endless tweaks to the broken penalty system in Sport Mode.

Is it time to do what we did in GT6 to get clean racing? Do it ourselves...

It seems relying on ANY automated stewarding is utterly futile, matchmaking doesn't solve anything (it mitigates it, but doesn't solve it). I have yet to find the same 24/7 clean racing I could find online in GT6. And the only difference is, in GT6 we did it all ourselves.

Perhaps it is time to realize Sport Mode is barely better than Quick Race, which was rarely quick, and usually dirty! Yes, it's more work for the host (host has to set up the room with a 'Clean or Kick' title - all that typing, rats!), it is more work for the players (we have to steward ourselves rather than relying on a moron computer to do it!), it is more bruising to our egos (when we get kicked for breaking the rules rather than getting a smaller penalty than the player we hit!).

Surely it's time to admit, after over six months of tweaking, that PD simply cannot make a fair race stewarding system. No-one else can either, so there's no shame, no need for mass seppuku! But, for me at least, the blush is off the rose. The benefits of seemingly easy matchmaking haven't outweighed the huge backwards step in clean racing. Not to mention the smaller choice in track/car/tire than we used to have.

So long, Sport Mode. A good idea, but ultimately, a huge failure.

 

[TheNorfolkDad]

I see little but complaining about the endless tweaks to the broken penalty system in Sport Mode.

Is it time to do what we did in GT6 to get clean racing? Do it ourselves...

It seems relying on ANY automated stewarding is utterly futile, matchmaking doesn't solve anything (it mitigates it, but doesn't solve it). I have yet to find the same 24/7 clean racing I could find online in GT6. And the only difference is, in GT6 we did it all ourselves.

Perhaps it is time to realize Sport Mode is barely better than Quick Race, which was rarely quick, and usually dirty! Yes, it's more work for the host (host has to set up the room with a 'Clean or Kick' title - all that typing, rats!), it is more work for the players (we have to steward ourselves rather than relying on a moron computer to do it!), it is more bruising to our egos (when we get kicked for breaking the rules rather than getting a smaller penalty than the player we hit!).

Surely it's time to admit, after over six months of tweaking, that PD simply cannot make a fair race stewarding system. No-one else can either, so there's no shame, no need for mass seppuku! But, for me at least, the blush is off the rose. The benefits of seemingly easy matchmaking haven't outweighed the huge backwards step in clean racing. Not to mention the smaller choice in track/car/tire than we used to have.

So long, Sport Mode. A good idea, but ultimately, a huge failure.

There has to be something they can do to separate the long term SR:S from the people (myself included) who are only there temporarily. It’s too easy to get to S, and too easy to have those precious points taken away. That’s my 2p

 

[Nuschel01]

The only problem is that some people rush to the meta car and then expect to win every race with it. A race is not hotlapping with traffic 🤬

 

[coxbox]

I have never been a fan of sport mode, there is not enough diversity in the racing, its is always GR.4 GR.3 and GR.1, or some stupid 4 lap race that is over before you get a chance to overtake or push up the grid.

SR/DR does not work i'm afraid racers just want to win therefore they will do what ever it takes, even being dirty. in the short 4-5 lap sprints if you are hit/rammed, it is easier to just quit and join the next race as you have no time to regain lost ground, in the longer races, well i don't bother as i am never a fan of GR4/GR3/GR1.

I would much prefer to hold the racing leagues ourselves, there are so many possibilities and combinations. I have run several in the past and tried running some on GT sport. The series i did run, instead of worrying about SR/DR I would make all newcomers use the Novice Cross on the backs of their car, and self governed cheaters and rammers by watching the replay. Sadly interest in this series decreased so I never ran a second season .

The same goes to some of my friends who did similar things no one was interested. In my opinion Sport Mode takes away from lobby racing in general, all i ever see now is, "Lets Drag Race our Super Cars", or "Lets pretend to be Police Officers and Drive at the Speed Limit ", Oh! And not forgetting "Generic Nurburgring Lobbies " 👎.

 

[Venster]

Personally I love sport mode but equally can hate it. The worst for me is when you make a mistake and drop down the field in a mixed lobby. Trying to make your way back up is a nightmare, if your too aggressive you get penalties and if you try and pass clean you get pushed off! I think IMO they put a little too much matching with SR, yes you want to be with all SR99 but if you drop to SR90 chances are you not dirty just had a bad race. If it matched everyone to say 99-90, 89-80 and so on, you would get a better matched field with all Bs or As etc and probably less mixed groups. Which I think that would lead to better closer racing, it doesn’t seem right to match a field that has a difference in speed of 3 seconds which is probably more like 4-5 in the race.

 

[mthomas_95]

The entire point of the game was centered around ranked competitive online racing. In theory the campaign mode was just to prepare people for Sport Mode (how effective it was is very much up for debate ).

In order to please those who ignored 2 years of marketing and complained about it not being a 'real' GT game they've added lots of road cars and GT League, fair enough. When you enter a partnership with the FIA with 2 official Championships you want to find the very best, and doing that through GT6 style Quick Races is impossible. Can't do leaderboards either because it's full of hotlappers who can't string 2 laps together and whilst that'd be hilarious to watch, I think the FIA and PD want the best 'racers'.

People naturally come to these forums with complaints. Sport Mode still gets tens of thousands of players every day and hundreds of thousands a week, numbers other racing games would die to have. It will get even more populated when they finally start the official FIA seasons and the marketing will ramp up. The lobbies are still there for if you fancy something different and/or don't want to worry about ratings.

 

[Guffaluff]

Well, personally I've had a very pleasant experience so far with Sport Mode, with the occasional exception, which is to be expected when dealing with human opponents.

I think this is more so a matter of disgruntled people being more vocal then those who are content, therefore the complaints threads here are more frequent. I get this all the time. I work as a assistant store manager in a large electronic store here in Iceland, and we get way more complaints then compliments from our customers. Still we have a really high customer satisfaction rate and are the market leading chain in the country. Those who are happy, just aren't really vocal about it .

I could be wrong, but at least I'm having a blast

 

[MisterWaffles]

Here's a little status post I made, but I think it's relevant here:

Current week: It's giving me penalties that I shouldn't have got. Too strict!

Next week: Penalty system is way too lenient and people are getting away with too much! Moar Penatlies PLZ!

Future week: Hate that there's way too much ghosting, Isn't real racing anymore!

Heat death of the universe: Why can't there be ghosting? People crash into me too much!

It's my belief that Sport Mode's penalty system will never please everyone. People have their preferences about how they want other people punished, or what they think constitutes the racing surface, or how much contact should be allowed. Often they cite different rulebooks from different motorsports with conflicting explanations for each. For example, Formula One might not allow any contact, but NASCAR may be OK with bump-drafting or nudging.

If they fix the penalty system your way, there would just be different group of people complaining about it next time. (not talking to anyone in particular here.)

Since when did two tiny numbers in the top of your screen become more important than the real racing? Why should a "DR" or "SR" take away the enjoyment of amazing overtakes or balsy late-braking into the Maggiore hairpin? If I ever enter a Sport Mode race, I'd never ragequit or leave because some tiny insignificant number went down. No penalty system will ever keep me from enjoying a good race.

 

[superdowg316]

I don’t even race online anymore unless it’s Grade 2. If there was a Grade 2 Championship I’d play that, but since there isn’t I’m kinda offline forever almost now.

 

[K1LLD0z3R]

I am still enjoying it. Do laps, enjoy the car and track. That seems to deliver the best happiness.

 

[LMSCorvetteGT2]

Here's a little status post I made, but I think it's relevant here:



It's my belief that Sport Mode's penalty system will never please everyone. People have their preferences about how they want other people punished, or what they think constitutes the racing surface, or how much contact should be allowed. Often they cite different rulebooks from different motorsports with conflicting explanations for each. For example, Formula One might not allow any contact, but NASCAR may be OK with bump-drafting or nudging.

If they fix the penalty system your way, there would just be different group of people complaining about it next time. (not talking to anyone in particular here.)

Since when did two tiny numbers in the top of your screen become more important than the real racing? Why should a "DR" or "SR" take away the enjoyment of amazing overtakes or balsy late-braking into the Maggiore hairpin? If I ever enter a Sport Mode race, I'd never ragequit or leave because some tiny insignificant number went down. No penalty system will ever keep me from enjoying a good race.

Simple three words, "ESPORT GAMING MENTALITY".

I can tell you to play any game with competitive ranking and you'll see the same thing over and over. You make a tier or ladder to climb and people will see it as their sole objective and treat it as if being of a certain ranks signifies something more than the fact it's a game and meaningless beyond said game. And the reason that could be is because GTS seems to update you so frequently with it, even as you're racing. Or the fact that said high ranks tends to correlate with pro players and how good they are. Point is the moment PD announced they were making a game in this market of gaming...everything changed and will be changed until it goes back to a simple career oriented game that it once was. Though that didn't stop a host of "issues" being said by many players.

 

[spidermonkey]

Im still fairly new to all this.. If I was one to give advice I would join a league. Its the best thing iv done since Jan, We race spec cars, no assist except ABS with no BOP. Its the snail league. We only race once a week so Im thinking of joining another league just to race more. Its improved my driving 10 fold from where I began too.

https://www.gtplanet.net/forum/board/snail-racing-league.384/

 

[John Crellin]

They just need to get rid of these assymetrical penalties. I just got (literally) bumped down to DR B from DR A tonight and it's a totally different game now
I get bumped and I don't get 10sec penalties. My SR drops are not as severe (in fact I have had only one since)
It's just stupid to have a group of racers on the same track all playing by totally different rules.

Edit:
I have also noticed that the track limits seem much less strict now that I'm in DRB. I can go wide out of corners and not get penalized now....

Coming wide out of Senna S netted me a 3 sec penalty in A but now I don't get penalized at all. Sames for other corners.

 

[Crazy Taylor]

Why would they get rid of it? Said it before, its the moneymaker. Its like taking the biggest mode out of every online focused game. Tbh sport races are a mixed bag with penalties and oter racers, but theres nothong better (imo) than jumping into a race and every race being different.

 

[instinct808]

for me problem is in races length
few days ago there was nordschleife gr4 with only 1 lap - that was joke?
race should be 30mins length minimum (better 1h, but I understand problems behind setup like that - and I understand that peoples are not impatiet and probably half of field will leave after first few laps) - if it would be like this I think peoples would stop riding like idiots because they would have more time to obtain the optimal position in a specific race

at this moment I'm more enjoyed lobby racing where I can setup my car and can ride with same legit people every day

 

[Shottah072]

Nah Sport mode is where its at. As a S/S driver you will rarely come across competetion that can give you a race in random lobbys. For me racing is definetly better in sport mode. If they'd remove that ill go back to iRacing.

 

[Mr Satay]

I think its fine, just like in real life racing sometimes you win sometimes you get crashed out. Factor in its all online im amazed at how well it works in the real world.

 

[KingFrog]

There has to be something they can do to separate the long-term SR:S from the people (myself included) who are only there temporarily. It’s too easy to get to S, and too easy to have those precious points taken away. That’s my 2p

That's factually untrue, less than 2% of drivers are even S rank.
also, no amount of tweaking is going to satisfy people. give up, your cries are not appreciated.
PD laxes the penalties: Crys
PD clamps down on penalties: even more crying
PD makes higher rank penalties equivalent to lower rank penalties: cries
PD makes higher ranks penalties more severe: even more crying
PD starts penalizing back bumping: crying intensifies despite this was the #1 damn request.

Cry more, while the rest of us enjoy the damn game.
there's no way in hell every single sports race is going to be curated by a live human, and there's no way in hell PD is going to develop AI smart enough to replace a human when actual computer scientist haven't managed that yet.

Oh and just to embolden your tears, Lobby racing in GT5- sport has been dirtier than B-S rank Sports races. Iv driven in some good lobbies along many mods here . Heck Mad Max was grinding my bumper on Bathurst and we just brushed it off as good old racing.

If you're getting mad at a video game, you need to re-evaluate your life and/or sell the game.

 

[shaunus]

Tosh, it is popular and fun. It is not perfect but it is good. Lobbies are plain hard work, and just so hit and miss unless you have a close group of friends. Sport mode isn't kicking me out for looking like beating the host's buddy, or cancelling the race after qualifying just to be a dick.

 

[chris4652009]

I love sport mode, spent most of yesterday doing the GR4 race at Brands hatch.

What don't YOU like about it?

 

[ROCKET JOE]

I am thankful.
Thanks to @simsimsheree for opening this thread and doing a job that would have taken me hours and hours to get it typed down ... though I'm not as radical as him.
Actually I've been thinking about a similar matter for quite some time now, 2 days ago I posted this v somewhere else :

... No April's fool here, I ask myself whether such a penalty system shouldn't be just skipped completely - I doubt it makes the racing ( the racers ) better. ...

I don't blame PD, Sport mode is a great attempt. I want Sport mode to be continued, I'm ok with both driver and sportsmanship rating, though sometimes I'd like to have the option to race cross all classes just for variety. Alone, I doubt the current penalty system is helpful in any way.

There's been complaining about injust race penalties from day 1 and complaining continued no matter how PD tweaked the system. To me it's just logic and I don't think there is any technical solution in a near future ( maybe GT12 on a PS7 can solve this ).
As long as a computer-based sytem can not mimic human thinking / ethic / intention and thus can not opportion guilt, it's gotta be a poor pack of compromising ... and annoying for the clean section of the racing community time and time again.

So why not skip race penalties for a testing period ?

PS
A better balance between DR / SR ups and downs could be helpful as well .

 

[Alpha Cipher]

Can't do leaderboards either because it's full of hotlappers who can't string 2 laps together and whilst that'd be hilarious to watch, I think the FIA and PD want the best 'racers'.

Oh I'm sorry.

Should I show you the screenshots of my wins as well?

Nah Sport mode is where its at. As a S/S driver you will rarely come across competetion that can give you a race in random lobbys. For me racing is definetly better in sport mode. If they'd remove that ill go back to iRacing.

^This
It'll always end with a 15-20 second lead with no real competition. The ones that do give you competition are so far and few in between that you can do 3 competitive Sport mode races in the time span of finding one clean and competitive lobby

 

[Smyven]

I really like sport mode, if it wasn’t for sport mode I probably wouldn’t bother with GTS and jump onboard PCars2 as that’s great game as well if not better in some ways. But I learnt my lesson after the carnage of 1.14. And learnt that when the system doesn’t work neither do the people that play it when it’s broken as it is now. I mean if your just going to get bounced around the ratings in an unstable manner why would most care and that’s what I see being reflected.
The lobby seems like the best alternative at the moment, there’s some good folks and lobby’s out there and if you do find a good bunch, happy days and it’s nice to have fun without the pens for a bit.

I think a system is better than no system but just not the one they have now, seems so wrong in every way.

 

[eran0004]

Sport Mode isn't a replacement for private leagues though. And since there is nothing about Sports Mode that stops you from hosting your own leagues, I don't see why it would have to be binned.

 

[TamasToth]

Formula One might not allow any contact, but NASCAR may be OK with bump-drafting or nudging.

You're right. And how lucky, in GTS we have basically GT or TC races, no NASCAR, no F1, which means PD shouldn't be confused to develop the proper "rule book". It is just a nonsense this way. Different rules apply to people on the same track, same time, same race.

 

[RedMotion]

That's factually untrue, less than 2% of drivers are even S rank.
also, no amount of tweaking is going to satisfy people. give up, your cries are not appreciated.
PD laxes the penalties: Crys
PD clamps down on penalties: even more crying
PD makes higher rank penalties equivalent to lower rank penalties: cries
PD makes higher ranks penalties more severe: even more crying
PD starts penalizing back bumping: crying intensifies despite this was the #1 damn request.

Cry more, while the rest of us enjoy the damn game.
there's no way in hell every single sports race is going to be curated by a live human, and there's no way in hell PD is going to develop AI smart enough to replace a human when actual computer scientist haven't managed that yet.

Oh and just to embolden your tears, Lobby racing in GT5- sport has been dirtier than B-S rank Sports races. Iv driven in some good lobbies along many mods here . Heck Mad Max was grinding my bumper on Bathurst and we just brushed it off as good old racing.

If you're getting mad at a video game, you need to re-evaluate your life and/or sell the game.

You’re crying bcoz u know that the penalty system is garbage but lecture ppl here makes you more vulnerable snowflake. You don’t enjoy the game you’re pretending that you enjoy the game. You Enjoy playing Mario Kart but GT Sport not.

And if you don’t agree with me then elaborate yourself please.

 

[Crazy Taylor]

You're right. And how lucky, in GTS we have basically GT or TC races, no NASCAR, no F1, which means PD shouldn't be confused to develop the proper "rule book". It is just a nonsense this way. Different rules apply to people on the same track, same time, same race.

Maybe pd should cater for this. With the updates they have brought in new disciplines like open wheel and red bull formula cars and super gt. With this they should adjust penalties accordingly to each disclipine.

 

[AlexDB9]

I love Sport mode, the thrill of qualifying and the race itself. Just I would like more credits and exp. points since you race against real people.

 

[Highlandor]

I found creating 2nd ID and using that for stress release ie doing the kind of things you wouldn't dream of doing on your main ID, example:

At Brands yesterday, clearly faster than guy infront, giving him space / room, finally getting a clear opportunity to overtake when he runs wide @ turn 4 (Surtees). I'm along side him just after the exit (cleanly, no contact), then he violently swerves across the track almost 'pit manoeuvres' me out.

I get control, catch him up, next lap, wait until turn 6 then hoofed him so hard he ended up closer to the orbiting International Space Station than the apex of the corner.

IT FELT GREAT (especially as I didn't even get a negative SR, let alone a penalty). Compared to my main ID, where twice the car infront ran wide, came back onto the track sideways, I do my upmost to avoid but ended up giving crashed car a tiny 'love tap' (neither of us went off track) and I got 10 second penalty both times

If you want to keep your sanity when doing the daily races, get yourself another 'stress release' ID, it changes the game completely.... 👍

 

[inri]

i don't like lobby racing. the skill gaps between the players involved are too big even in league races