Italian GP to Rome?
- Thread starter Ian Poole
- 38 comments
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- 33,155
- Hammerhead Garage
This has been touted for a while now. I think there may be a thread on it elsewhere. If you'd read some of the other articles instead of rushing to post - maybe it's just me, but Yahoo is hellishly vague sometimes - you'd have read that it's a provision of the contract that the Italian Grand Prix stays at Monza. Certainly that a race stays there.
This is the route. It's 4.8km - short by modern standards - and will be the fifth anti-clockwise circuit on the circuit (and the only one in Europe proper). Projections put it at sixty-six laps.
This is the route. It's 4.8km - short by modern standards - and will be the fifth anti-clockwise circuit on the circuit (and the only one in Europe proper). Projections put it at sixty-six laps.
- 7,588
- Whateversville
- Flerbizky
- 10,373
- Manchester
- Ardius_
Nothing to stop them naming it a completely different Grand Prix. Like San Marino is. Could also be one of the "European" races.
- 33,155
- Hammerhead Garage
I've heard the name Mediterranean Grand Prix thrown about. But whatever; does it really matter what the race is named?
- 470
Well the layout looks cool, hopefully Bernie is smart enough to replace Valencia for the European Grand Prix, and not Monza for the Italian.
- 708
- GTP_MaxAttack
First impressions of this layout, I'm not overly impressed by it. Theres much better scenery that could be put to use in Rome, can't the old Rome course from GT3 be done in reality?
I've just done this layout quickly, its 4.18km in length and it features the Colloseum, an awkward little hairpin before heading onto a straight along Via del Circo Massimo broken up by a bus-stop at Piazza Ugo La Malfa before the final technical section which passes Sant'Eligio dei Ferrari before heading up Via del Teatro Marcello to go around the Alterra della Patria back onto the start finish straight.
What do you think?
I've just done this layout quickly, its 4.18km in length and it features the Colloseum, an awkward little hairpin before heading onto a straight along Via del Circo Massimo broken up by a bus-stop at Piazza Ugo La Malfa before the final technical section which passes Sant'Eligio dei Ferrari before heading up Via del Teatro Marcello to go around the Alterra della Patria back onto the start finish straight.
What do you think?
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- 10,620
- gtp_jimprower
I'd guess there's "Pavement issues" with that course, (I.E, it'd cost too much to upgrade,) and they don't want to actually close the Coliseum for that race. I think that'd make a great place to watch from...
- 33,155
- Hammerhead Garage
It never ceases to amaze me how people can look at a two-dimensional planograph and believe they have the measure of a circuit before a lap has ever been driven in anger.
Take the V8 Supercar circuit at Sydney Olympic Park. On paper, it doesn't look like much, but having seen the race on television and gone there in person, it's actually a very difficult circuit: full of rises and blind corners and funny cambers on corner exits that you just don't get when you look at a line drawn on a page.
The proposal runs through the EUR district that Benito Mussolini envisioned as a showcase for Italian fascism to host the World's Fair expo in 1942. The outbreak of war put paid to that, but the site was used again in 1960 for the Olympic Games. Ever since then, it's been gradually added to, so the end result is a district that features of seventy years of architectual styles thrown together. It's not going to be as note-worthy as something like the Colossuem, but it's by no means going to be in the middle of suburbia.
And I believe the roads around the Colosseum are cobbled, which would make them inappropriate for racing. There's no way you could get that section re-paved, since I'm pretty sure they're hundred of years old at the very least.
Formula One should not be a travelogue of famous cities and landmarks. Eer.
- 33,155
- Hammerhead Garage
That's exactly the kind of thing I'm talking about.
To everyone who hates the circuit plan, I invite you to get onto the Google Maps Pedometer, visit Rome and draw your own circuit, one that you think would be better than the above proposal. I always want you to justify why you think it would be better. Until you can do that, stop whinging about it!
To everyone who hates the circuit plan, I invite you to get onto the Google Maps Pedometer, visit Rome and draw your own circuit, one that you think would be better than the above proposal. I always want you to justify why you think it would be better. Until you can do that, stop whinging about it!
- 5,196
- Kuala Lumpur
- CHVRCHES_GTP
I think F1 is going to favour more of a street circuit nowadays. I believe they wouldn't get rid of Monza.
Upon looking at what Interludes done to the map, in my opinion the track layout looks good but the facility is not going to look good. I mean, I have no idea where they going to place the pit, garages and FIA etc.
Upon looking at what Interludes done to the map, in my opinion the track layout looks good but the facility is not going to look good. I mean, I have no idea where they going to place the pit, garages and FIA etc.
- 33,155
- Hammerhead Garage
If I had to guess, Kidrauhl, I'd say the pits will go on the north side of the main straight. After all, the pit lane is on the outside of the circuit. Looking at Google Earth, there's what appear to be some sports fields that would probably be uprooted in favour of pit buildings. I'm not sure what they're going to do about the overpass, though; it would be interesting if we had half the pits on one side and half on the other.
Also looking in Google Earth, I've found the circuit isn't entirely flat. Quite the opposite, really; it seems there's only two or three points where the circuit could be described at flat at all: The main straight is the lowest point of the circuit. After the first right-hander, the cars go up a hill to the right-hand hairpin that seems to be a good twenty-five meters higher than the main straight. They'll then come back down the hill to the point where a new section of road will have to be purpose-built, running directly under the main thoroughfare. They'll climb again going up to that fiddly-looking bit, which is a good twenty-metre climb before its peak in front of that square building. The final section through the switchbacks rapidly descends; its peak of fifty metres (outside the square building) drops to a low point of sixteen metres above sea level in the latter part of that sweeping corner.
And I've found this interesting article from Joe's Award. If I'm reading it right, then it seems the EUR district was built on top of the old Tre Fontane subdivision, which was one of the original circuits used for pre-war Grand Prix racing in Italy, and one of the first permanent races for the Rome Grand Prix. Mussolini reconfigured it as the EUR expo site after war interrupted. While I don't think anyone alive today could say with any certainty whether the proposal runs anywhere near the original Tre Fontane circuit, the question needs to be asked: who says we're getting races at locations devoid of a racing history?
Also looking in Google Earth, I've found the circuit isn't entirely flat. Quite the opposite, really; it seems there's only two or three points where the circuit could be described at flat at all: The main straight is the lowest point of the circuit. After the first right-hander, the cars go up a hill to the right-hand hairpin that seems to be a good twenty-five meters higher than the main straight. They'll then come back down the hill to the point where a new section of road will have to be purpose-built, running directly under the main thoroughfare. They'll climb again going up to that fiddly-looking bit, which is a good twenty-metre climb before its peak in front of that square building. The final section through the switchbacks rapidly descends; its peak of fifty metres (outside the square building) drops to a low point of sixteen metres above sea level in the latter part of that sweeping corner.
And I've found this interesting article from Joe's Award. If I'm reading it right, then it seems the EUR district was built on top of the old Tre Fontane subdivision, which was one of the original circuits used for pre-war Grand Prix racing in Italy, and one of the first permanent races for the Rome Grand Prix. Mussolini reconfigured it as the EUR expo site after war interrupted. While I don't think anyone alive today could say with any certainty whether the proposal runs anywhere near the original Tre Fontane circuit, the question needs to be asked: who says we're getting races at locations devoid of a racing history?
Feschka
(Banned)
- 406
- feschka
I meant a street circuit in Rome whatever, not your plan.
- 5,196
- Kuala Lumpur
- CHVRCHES_GTP
This is what I got in espnf1.com...
Good to know that they're retaining the Monza Circuit in the calendar.
Thanks for the further info interludes
. Owkey so now I know how the circuit should look like. With the uphills and downhills. Anyway, about that half the pits on one side and half on the other, do you mean by opposite to each other?? If so then it's kind of not going to happen since the FIA scruteeniers etc. have to cross the track to go to the garages on the other side of the straight, that's not going to make job easier. The also have to cut down those trees and the pavements to make a new road for the circuit. Owh and the grandstands.. err..
Anyways, it's quite interesting too though
espnf1.com
Good to know that they're retaining the Monza Circuit in the calendar.
Thanks for the further info interludes
. Owkey so now I know how the circuit should look like. With the uphills and downhills. Anyway, about that half the pits on one side and half on the other, do you mean by opposite to each other?? If so then it's kind of not going to happen since the FIA scruteeniers etc. have to cross the track to go to the garages on the other side of the straight, that's not going to make job easier. The also have to cut down those trees and the pavements to make a new road for the circuit. Owh and the grandstands.. err..Anyways, it's quite interesting too though
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- 1,163
- ijp420uk
- martinp1987 (it's my brothers)
I am willing to give any circuit a go but this one just looks too...niggly. I mean, what sort of circuit has FIVE hairpins?
Absolutely, saw it on Motors TV and it is a brilliant circuit.
Nice to hear
- 33,155
- Hammerhead Garage
Okay, I've been doing some more research, and I've found something rather startling. In my last post, I went back over how the EUR district was once known as Tre Fontane, and how Tre Fontane was once the home of the Rome Grand Prix some ninet years ago.
Well, I've found out some more: the main straight of the proposed circuit is named Via della Tre Fontane. The circuit goes right at Viale dell'Artigianato, but if you were to keep going further on to the next junction, you would be on the Via Laurentina. This is important to note because back when the Tre Fontane circuit was created in the 1920s, the main straight was the Via della Tre Fontane, and the first right led the cars onto the Via Laurentina. It's exactly the same piece of road.
Well, almost. A road certainly went through there, following the same path. It's no doubt been paved over a dozen times since there, but here's the thing about Italy: my brother and sister went over to Europe a few months ago, and the other day my sister commented that when they were in Venice, their group had pizza - actual Italian pizza - and they sat on this enormous marble pillar that had been converted to a bench of sorts and was at least two thousand years old. Here in Australia, it would be somewhere in a museum taking pride of place. In Italy, they have so many of them that's they're out in the streets.
My point in this is that it's not the exact same piece of road as it was eighty-odd years ago. But in that time, the road has not changed one iota. Buried underneath the road today - indeed, a part of it - is a piece of roadway that once served the very same purpose: racing.
How is that not cool?
Well, I've found out some more: the main straight of the proposed circuit is named Via della Tre Fontane. The circuit goes right at Viale dell'Artigianato, but if you were to keep going further on to the next junction, you would be on the Via Laurentina. This is important to note because back when the Tre Fontane circuit was created in the 1920s, the main straight was the Via della Tre Fontane, and the first right led the cars onto the Via Laurentina. It's exactly the same piece of road.
Well, almost. A road certainly went through there, following the same path. It's no doubt been paved over a dozen times since there, but here's the thing about Italy: my brother and sister went over to Europe a few months ago, and the other day my sister commented that when they were in Venice, their group had pizza - actual Italian pizza - and they sat on this enormous marble pillar that had been converted to a bench of sorts and was at least two thousand years old. Here in Australia, it would be somewhere in a museum taking pride of place. In Italy, they have so many of them that's they're out in the streets.
My point in this is that it's not the exact same piece of road as it was eighty-odd years ago. But in that time, the road has not changed one iota. Buried underneath the road today - indeed, a part of it - is a piece of roadway that once served the very same purpose: racing.
How is that not cool?
- 4,474
- Vancouver, BC
- GTP_Grand_Prix
Everything that comes around goes around. Awesome indeed.
- 33,155
- Hammerhead Garage
No, but I am a Russophile. Have been ever since I saw From Russia With Love. And my girlfriend is also Russian (actually, she's from a tiny little country that no-one has ever heard of, but she has a Russian name and speaks Russian, and so introduces herself as such to skip the confusion).Also, I thought you really did live in Russia, guess I was wrong
That's an unusual amount of hate coming from your end. I notice that your location is given as "NW Italy". I wonder if that's significant? After all, the north-west of Italy is home to Milan, and Monza is but a stone's throw away from the city. This is what the Powers That Be from the north had to say on the subject of a Rome Grand Prix:
Important bits in bold.
Hmmmm, I wonder - you lot in the north aren't feeling more than a little threatened by all of this, are you? When Germany had two races, they accpted them with open arms. When the Valencia street circuit was unveiled, the Spaniards welcomed it with open arms. But you - and several other people on the internet from Italy's north - have been nothing but brazenly hostile towards it. Almost as if you're jealously guarding something.
Monza, perhaps?
- 10,373
- Manchester
- Ardius_
I'm agreeing with the anti-street circuit sentiments here, I don't like the direction F1 is heading - more and more new tracks being street circuits. I only love Monaco for its history and its endurance, but otherwise its a crushingly dull circuit with very little racing action.
Unless they make some new street circuits that are as punishing as Detroit & Co were, I'm not interested.
At the same time I don't want concrete car parks though, we need a new Suzuka desperately. Donington would have been so good if it had happened.
Unless they make some new street circuits that are as punishing as Detroit & Co were, I'm not interested.
At the same time I don't want concrete car parks though, we need a new Suzuka desperately. Donington would have been so good if it had happened.
Yeh, Street circuits don't appeal to me, I guess it's good for the FIA cause they pull in more crowds when it's in the middle of the city but the racing is usually quite dull and crashes often unsafe, and the driver's never take risks on street circuits for obvious reason.
