John Demjanjuk...Ivan the Terrible

[Nicksfix]

Is he really Ivan the Terrible ? The notorious SS guard at the Treblinka extermination camp during the period 1942–1943 who committed murder and acts of extraordinarily savage violence against camp prisoners.

Earlier this evening,he was escorted on to a plane to be deported to Germany to stand trial for his accessory role in the extermination and violence charges of over 29,000 prisoners of war,during WWII.

If convicted,what do you do to him ? He's already 89 years old and in failing health. Do you sentence him to death anyway ? Lock him up for what time he has left to live ? This will be a trial that the world will probably be watching.

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,519863,00.html

Thoughts about this one ?

 

[Nicksfix]

Munich officials say he's fit for prison ( which could be two weeks,until his trial ).

http://blog.cleveland.com/metro/2009/05/german_officials_say_demjanjuk.html

 

[nk4e]

If his health is failing, then leave him alone. He has enough on his soul to bear for himself for what he did. But we are a nation of laws.

 

[Rotary Junkie]

I say leave the old guy alone... He's put that past behind him it would seem, let him finish his time on earth.

Further, what was he supposed to do, get labeled as a traitor for NOT being a Nazi?

 

[Omnis]

I wonder what kind of proof they have.

 

[Dave A]

Even if there is evidence what is the point. Besides that, as horrible as the things he may have done might be, it was what Hitler wanted done, he could have said no been killed himself and then someone else do the killings. So d you call everyone a war criminal who kills an innocent person? What about the A bombs, yes I know all the theories on how they might have saved lives in the long run, but that was still mass killing of innocent people and then you have innocents killed as so called "collateral damage".

Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying everone should be put on trial who kills an innocent person during war, but morally I can't see this as being worse than dropping bombs killing many more thousands of innocent people as this guy supposedly killed. Morally letting innocent people die as collateral damage is wrong, it might ultimately save lives in some cases but it's still immoral. I don't get what these people are trying to do going after these Nazi war criminals, because they are either setting a precedent in which case this can't stop at the Nazi's and will open a huge can of worms or they're being extremely hypocritical.

 

[Omnis]

Yeah, Dave, they are both wrong. Following orders doesn't matter.

 

[Keef]

The Nazis' objective was to kill innocent people. They thought they were guilty, simply because they were who they were, but the Nazis just ignored their human rights to come to that conclusion. The killings weren't collateral damage at all.

 

[Nicksfix]

I wonder what kind of proof they have.

Evidently,Germany has something on him.Thats why they wanted him back so bad.

I am up in the air on what to do to this guy.I'm convinced that he is Ivan the Terrible.With me living in N.E. Ohio,I get to hear a lot about this story on my local news. Sure, he committed attrocities under Hitlers orders,but how many of these were on his own recognisense ? He has had to live the last 60+ years (reliving every single day) what went on in the death camps.That had to weigh very heavy on him. 60+ years is a long time to deal with something like this on your mind everyday.Is this enough punishment,the torture of reliving what he had done ? Then again,there are people out there (the families of the executed ones) who probably would like to see the death sentence imposed on him. Do you execute a man who is in the process of lying on his death bed with this bone marrow cancer that he has.I mean,it's not as if the man is going to live another 10 years or so. Do you lock him up for the remainder of what life he has left ? Another scenario,depending on what Germany has on him,he may not even be found guilty,and set free !!!

Supossedly,there are going to be some Nazi gaurds who who are going to testify that this is indeed Ivan the Terrible,and that they carried out the attrocites imposed on them by Demjanjuk.So going with this,it really does not look good for him.

Remains to be seen.

 

[nk4e]

recognisense ?

?

 

[Scaff]

Further, what was he supposed to do, get labeled as a traitor for NOT being a Nazi?

Plenty of German's did just that, remember this guy....

Oskar Schindler

....and then you have the various youth groups in wartime Germany (and before) who risk all to oppose the Nazi party....

Edelweiss Pirates

...that's a bunch of teenagers who helped allied soldiers and escaped POWs, formed an underground railway for Jews, and opposed what the Hitler Youth and Nazi party did.

Go and read Stalingrad for some great examples of German soliders who managed to remain loyal to the German nation and people without sinking to the levels of Nazi hardliners.


Sorry but I do not buy the "had to be a good Nazi in Germany, just following orders" line of defence.


Regards

Scaff

 

[Nicksfix]

Plenty of German's did just that, remember this guy....

Oskar Schindler

....and then you have the various youth groups in wartime Germany (and before) who risk all to oppose the Nazi party....

Edelweiss Pirates

...that's a bunch of teenagers who helped allied soldiers and escaped POWs, formed an underground railway for Jews, and opposed what the Hitler Youth and Nazi party did.

Go and read Stalingrad for some great examples of German soliders who managed to remain loyal to the German nation and people without sinking to the levels of Nazi hardliners.


Sorry but I do not buy the "had to be a good Nazi in Germany, just following orders" line of defence.


Regards

Scaff

Schindlers List is a movie for the ages,well worth seeing.
It does have some graphic scenes in it though,so be forewarned.


I agree with you Scaff about having to be the " good Nazi " .Take a look into history and see how many of Hitlers own Field Marshalls,Generals,and ranks on down tried to take him out of power by assination attempts,planted bombs etc..Many Germans knew what road Hitler was taking them down................The road to demise.So yes,I completely agree with your comment about the " good Nazi " theory.Many were aware of what was going on.It just never panned out on the overthrow attempts.

 

[nk4e]

Well, during the "Downfall" ( movie)

Spoiler

There was this one part were Hitler's Youth wanted to fight the invading Russians but a fellow German told and screamed at the kids to go home. Guess what happens after that! all but one Hitler's Youth died from the invading Russians

 

[Omnis]

Schindlers List is a movie for the ages,well worth seeing.
It does have some graphic scenes in it though,so be forewarned.


I agree with you Scaff about having to be the " good Nazi " .Take a look into history and see how many of Hitlers own Field Marshalls,Generals,and ranks on down tried to take him out of power by assination attempts,planted bombs etc..Many Germans knew what road Hitler was taking them down................The road to demise.So yes,I completely agree with your comment about the " good Nazi " theory.Many were aware of what was going on.It just never panned out on the overthrow attempts.

I hate when people get nation confused with country. There is no such thing as a good Nazi. There were good Germans though. The Nazis were a political party who built their nation/empire over the German country.