Just some general thoughts that directly involve every "drifter"

  • Thread starter bengee
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bengee

bengee

2,987
I am sick and tired of listening to people criticize the poor spelling and grammar that occurs within this site and projecting this as a habit either completely institutionalized by the drifters forum or as a general characteristic of anyone who drifts. I admit that at times my grammar has not been the best, but that is not because i like to drift. In the beginning it was because i was new and did not know better, and now it results from the need for quick and relatively unimportant threads. Whenever i post something relatively important i make sure i sound reasonably intelligent. Anyways, I feel it is wrong on many levels that in a post discussing general rules would read, "Funny thing - it's always u ppl that spel like ur azn homie driftin stuntaz 4eva that whine the most about how all of us "haterz" don't respect you."

The reason why i am posting this is simple. I would like the people who regularly use this forum to give "them" no excuse to criticize "us" in such a way. To the best of one's ability, always express yourself with the best grammar possible. I too will stop being lazy :P... I am tired of this stereotype, i am tired of hearing this crap, and i want it to end. From what I observe, the majority of users within the drifters forum rarely if ever use the grammar expressed in the quote above. As usual it is the few defining the many, but it would be nice to give said individuals no reason to criticize us as a group. In fact it would be nice to show that the statements they make express a fundamental flaw in the way they judge other people. Infact it expresses an ignorance (one that they find enough pride in to voice) that far surpasses that of a defense of a gramatical ignorance...
 
Bravo, 'bout time someone said that!:D I agree that that kind of stereotyping is BS in the most extreme sense. I beleive it needs to stop, but that improving our spelling and gramar are not the core solution to the problem, though hopefuly it will help some.

What we really need to do is run around and point out EVERY TIME one of these "haterz" uses poor gramar or spelling and then rub it in their face and make them feel stupid.... :rolleyes: In case no one caught that, it's known as sarcasm. ;)

Seriously though, trying to improve our overall sentence structuring skills and spelling would help some.

Venom :cool:
Man who can't spell his way outta' a paper bag. :D
 
I believe it's more of a psychological problem. In a forum where most people have already used to proper spelling and grammar, it creates a general sense as to a unwritten requirement.

Compare www.gamingforce.com and www.anti-rice.com... two very different sites due to two entirely different audiences. In GF you cannot even double post... it is not written in the rules, but they claim that it pisses people off. In A-R where everyone thinks a spoiler taller than 5 inches equals to rice, they could care less about proper spelling and grammar...

The only way to solve this problem it seems... is either everyone using proper grammar, or everyone STOP using proper grammar. The second one definitely sounds batter, however...
 
I was brought up reading books and playing sports with absolutely no video games until the age of six or seven or so. More books than sports, admittedly. What relevance does this have to the topic at hand? It shoved the idea into my mind that proper spelling and grammar are 'cool', or something. Buried it in my synapses to just spell properly. Probably because it meant easy marks in the early years of school.

Yeah, I'm sure the spelling and whatnot in this forum is below whatever 'par' the people who criticise it have set the entire internet, but quite frankly, unless it degrades to the point where I can't even tell what someone is saying, I don't think it's that big a deal. And sure, it's probably a lot easier if I made a lot of shortcuts in my writing, it'd bug the hell out of me, and me alone. Sure, it'd be nice if everyone suddenly typed like an english major, but seeing as that isn't going to happen, there's no point whatsoever in whinging loudly everytime a little flaw comes up in a post.
 
I'm not sure that this is the answer to the problem, but we'll have to wait and see. Personally, I just try to make my posts understandable, but short and to the point (for the most part anyway). I generally try to use correct grammar and correct spelling so the users who are learning English as a second language can understand what I'm saying without looking at the screen and saying "What the....?" or whatever that translates to in their respective first language. I also think that's part of the reason you see extremely bad spelling and grammar in this forum, there are lots of people who are using (or learning) english as a second language, but as long as I can understand it, it doesn't bother me.
It does get on my nerves that posts like this (Read This: Unofficial common sense rules for posting.) get posted all the time, but I just ignore it. Let them live in their ignorance. I've seen spelling and grammar that was as bad or worse, outside of the Drifters forum and yet they still automatically assume that if you can't spell or use perfect grammar, you must be a Drifting fan.
Just Ignore them.
 
Maybe perfect grammar will not alter some people's minds, but i could not think of a better way in which to stop or at least prevent further posts like the one i showed above. The reason why this bothers me revovles about the authors of such lines. They are individuals who are either mods or long time members. I am not saying that all mods or long time members act in this way, but there are a few who do. I personally do not think that mods should be acting in such a way; they should be slightly kinder when expressing these rules to newbies (not just accussing us "azn driftin homies"). I think that ignoring what is being said by a few members is not worth it simply because they will go unchecked and uncritisized. I just want people to be aware of what is being said, and if what i suggested is not the best solution, a better solution must exist. I am sure that ignoring it will not help it either.
 
If you think about this issue carefully, it's those whose prides get in the way of their skills. Like someone here, this user thinks that they are really good and that they the best, but when someone comes to show that they can do it, then the user starts saying on how they are the best. It's these kinds of people that make our forums look so unorganized. If they would only change their ways so that people can comprehend their meaning and be able to sympathize on how other people feel, then this community has overcome another milestone.

I just hope and wish the best of luck to those users who are lacking the ability to empathize with other people.
 
I hate to be so blunt, and apologize if I offend anyone but... the only cause for poor grammar is carelessness. Are you really in such a hurry that you can't bother to even attempt to spell things properly? A few typos here and there are expected, we're only human, but a person should strive to better themselves in all fashions. Sadly, poor grammar is the standard on the 'net these days and I really don't think we have worse grammar than most forums out there, so I don't think the stereotype is justified at all.
 
Originally posted by pergatory
I hate to be so blunt, and apologize if I offend anyone but... the only cause for poor grammar is carelessness.
Click to expand...

I disagree. It's also because of stupidity. Yes. There really are stupid people and it's not anyone's fault. I guess it's just the nature of things. Maybe the discord is intelligent peoples' fault for having unrealistic expectations of them. Maybe we all need to realize that stupid people are incapable of writing well, hence communicating effectively, and cut them some slack. No? I mean, they just can't help it.
 
Ok, I suppose you are probably right..

However, when it gets so bad that our threads look like a SMS conversation "wher no1 relly nows wut's goin on" I think that's carelessness. Anyone with elementary education and IQ over 70 knows how to write better than that.

It's like there's this common belief that nobody cares. Personally, I don't even read posts with awful grammar, I just skip over them.
 
After skimming through some threads again and seeing how bad the grammar and spelling really is in this forum, I'm going to have to agree with you. I didn't realize it was as bad as it is. If everybody could use better grammar and spelling, this forum would be so much better. I posted my original reply two days ago (or so) and since then, I've read (or tried to read) numerous posts in this forum (and other forums too, for that matter) that just didn't make any sense. The thing that bothers me the most though, is that most of said posters have shown in the past that they can use decent grammar and spelling. They just choose not too.
Nobody's perfect, but it would definitely be nice if everybody would take an extra few seconds and make sure their post was understandable before they hit 'Submit Reply'.
 
One thing you guys have to watch out for is people like Drifterzzz whom speak english as a second language, and therefore can't be exspected to be as good at as someone who's spoken it from birth like you or I. I'm shure we have a number fo foreign(from the US point of view) people on the forums who don't speak/write english as well because it's a second language for them. ;)
 
What you mentioned, VenomousDrift, was accounted for in the first post. No one is asking for perfect English from anyone at all. I simply call on individuals to post using the best possible grammar that they can muster. I am sure that “poor” grammar as a result of an different first language is not only limited to "foreign" members, but extends to members within the United States who do not claim English as a first language...

I realize that grammar has been an ongoing battle for quite some time now, and I did not create this thread to give an excuse for members to attack individuals who are violating the rules of written English. Rather than provoking such attacks on new and old members I wanted every member to see that obviously avoidable poor grammar and spelling portrays oneself in a poor way to others. In fact, it is this type of grammar that has created a stereotype that many outside members use to classify this forum in particular. It is much more important that we realize that by writing in an easily understandable manner we can improve the way in which this forum is perceived as well as strengthen the merit of our posts. In my eyes it is not up to grammar lords to correct or prevent use of another member’s poor grammar, especially by approaching members in a way that immediately erects a defensive attitude that barricades suggestions that more sympathetic members might have. Most of my poor grammar arises from an inert laziness that basically defines me as a human being, and I assume that this is true for most individuals (baring those that think that typing in completely strange and illogical ways makes them cooler). I created this post to reach out to more mature members who understand that the way people perceive you, on the internet, has a great deal to do with the way one expresses oneself. I am sure that what I have posted will not reach everyone, even within the drifter’s forum, but I think it will serve as a good reminder to us who suffer from chronic laziness to type with more self respect, as well as a reminder to those who might jump down throat because of grammatical errors to try a softer and less aggressive path first. As a last note I am not saying that some more stubborn individuals may need a more aggressive persuasion, but I am confident that most members are mature enough to change without such treatment…
 
iGNORANCE IS BLISS . i am not a very educated person i know very little about how to put a sentence together properly i know you use a fullstop once in a while cos people run out of breath then they abuse you in there next post .So what exactly are the rules im not going back to school or anything stupid like that but if i had a clear concise description of what this grammer and the other stuff is and how it is to be applied i would read it and if it made sense i may even use it so someone educate the masses some of us are not lazy just ignorant and uneducated.:banghead:
 
No offense but do you really expect us to attempt to teach you proper grammar? It's not like you can write a quick paragraph to describe proper grammar, like "periods go after the letter p." It's one of those things that the more you know about it the more there is to know, like drifting. I'm sure there are forums dedicated to grammar. Wish I could help you but jeez, you ask a lot.
 
And to add another thing to the first post:

People, use your resources carefully. Don't abuse the actions that you have on this website because there are a lot more things to do. For example, there is a thread about what songs are good for drifting. This topic has been discussed in the past already and then you bring it up again?! That's why there are so many threads in this forum. Users, please use the search button. It's not a function to sit there and do nothing.

And in that thread, it seems like all that the starter wanted to find was wicked. And you guys ignored my post about Ferry Corsten and then when wicked mentions it, you guys treat him with respect. Users can't ignore others because then the others will feel ostracized from this forum and they don't want to come back. Try to be open minded and keep this forum a clean community.

On that note, I've seen many avatars that have a lot of sexual innuendos. I would suggest those users to take it off the board and use it in another forum because first of all, the avatar shows how mature the user is. If there is a woman with barely any clothes on, do you think people will respect you? They'll say like, "Nice avatar. Where'd you get the picture?" and then it just turns into a mess. If you people want to do that, fine. Not here in GTP though.
 
Actually, it's turned into a decent discussion about generally improving the perceptions we all generate. I think most of the people in here deserve compliments for being the mature type who realize how the situation can be improved, and who try to do so.

I've stayed out of this thread, due to my role in the original post, as the person who wrote the "Common Sense Rules" to which bengee referred. I didn't want to stomp in and throw my weight around; I wanted to see where you guys went with this. I'm impressed at the amount of serious posting here.

The Terms Of Service don't actually call for perfect grammar, and I think nitpicking at typos and word choice mistakes is pointless and annoying. The TOS recognizes that this is a large, international community, with people of mixed age and educational level. Nobody should be criticizing grammar for someone who is doing their best to be clear. Read one of Werner Winkels' posts - his English is bad, but he's trying his best. He does better than I would in German, that's for sure.

The real problem comes with intentional laziness and purposely bad grammar - AOLspeak, 1337speak, ToRgO tYpInG, "u" and "ur", etc. That is forbidden by the TOS and that is what damages people's credibility, whether they care to admit it or not.

bengee started a great, constructive topic and you guys have done an excellent job in running with it. Keep it up!
 
I am glad you think it turned out constructively... My comment actually reffered to the fact that i leave for one day and the thread is blessed with 6 or so posts... Oh and it also reffered to the posts that seem to always come up ion these grammar discussions, posts that are at best meaningless.
 
Originally posted by bengee
members within the United States who do not claim English as a first language...
Click to expand...

[stir]

That's all of them then...

[/stir]

:D
 
[bang lid on pot]

You British and assorted ex-Colonials (much more recently ex-Colonial than we Yanks, might I add) aren't proving to be any more "native" in your usage, for the most part...

[/bang]
 
Yes... there's no legislating for Australians, sadly... :D

Hehe...
 
Thanks ethix i had a read through all that stuff can grasp some it but i think im a terminal case because some of it made no sense. I wonder how people think. When i read something i see words in line left to right,read each word, brain interp's any crook spelling, done ive got what somones trying to say sometimes i have to go back and read it 2 - 3 times even if its hard to read like this post really noew im getting all self concious cos i cant put a sentance together i think i should have my account suspened till i get a bit cleverer.So really what some of you are saying is you read the words and the squiggglys and dots and vertical lines with a dot under it and it has a different meaning.Well i agree that you can read something and it can have more than 1 meaning but i suppose thats where the brain kicks in and through its ammased knowledge cuts through all formalitys and bull**** and understands the intended message.Post is now to long to go back and read to see if it makes sense let alone correct the mistakes have a nice day and walk on:P
 

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