Levels and Sliders

[TRLWNC7396]

I have posted these two concepts in the Kaz Q&A section, but I would like to see the general reaction to them.

Here goes a simple breakdown as a starting point:

The five levels of play would be:
Casual
Novice/beginner
Amateur
Professional
Expert

The sliders would run from 0 to 100 (or more?) percent, and would start with the four basic ones being the following:
Speed
Aggression
Tuning prowess
Consistency

For how it would play, it could run like this:

1) Casual-no needed license tests, can access most, if not all, of the game, but have limited challenges (only have these four sliders, and can only turn them up to 60%)
2) Novice: Must bronze license tests, will have another slider or two for AI, can go higher on the %
3) Amatuer: Must silver, more sliders, higher %
4) You get the idea...

So here is my question:

Based on this concept, what would you add for sliders, what would be the percent per level (Novice, Amateur, etc.) and what would qualify you for expert?

This could be a good discussion and way to show PD what is possible and wished for. Maybe they could look here for what would work best.

Either way, let's fill this out with some ideas and agreements/corrections (no hating, please! )

 

[biftizmo]

I have posted these two concepts in the Kaz Q&A section, but I would like to see the general reaction to them.

Here goes a simple breakdown as a starting point:

The five levels of play would be:
Casual
Novice/beginner
Amateur
Professional
Expert

The sliders would run from 0 to 100 (or more?) percent, and would start with the four basic ones being the following:
Speed
Aggression
Tuning prowess
Consistency

For how it would play, it could run like this:

1) Casual-no needed license tests, can access most, if not all, of the game, but have limited challenges (only have these four sliders, and can only turn them up to 60%)
2) Novice: Must bronze license tests, will have another slider or two for AI, can go higher on the %
3) Amatuer: Must silver, more sliders, higher %
4) You get the idea...

So here is my question:

Based on this concept, what would you add for sliders, what would be the percent per level (Novice, Amateur, etc.) and what would qualify you for expert?

This could be a good discussion and way to show PD what is possible and wished for. Maybe they could look here for what would work best.

Either way, let's fill this out with some ideas and agreements/corrections (no hating, please! )

I take it referring to the level adjustments to AI opponents. The problem with AI is it can always be set to unbeatable. no matter how good you are. Online championships would be against fellow GT players who earned the level that their at ..you may not get to the finials if you don't race at that level...but to create a more enjoyable friendly race maybe a slider in lobby functions to your preferred level according to world rankings. Racing other people will always give you a better challenge than AI. I think.

 

[TRLWNC7396]

Yes, they will. However, we will still need off-line to practice. If we have an event generator, we could also have an AI generator.

 

[biftizmo]

Yes, they will. However, we will still need off-line to practice. If we have an event generator, we could also have an AI generator.

Yes in offline ..AI is essential and some sort of level adjuster is defiantly needed.

 

[Johnnypenso]

I've just started the game but I think Grid Autosport is on a good path. Everything is adjustable and your bonuses, awards, money, XP etc. is all dependent on how difficult you make a race. No ABS for me is worth more than with ABS. Aids on is less payout than aids off. Very hard AI is a better payout than hard AI. And on and on.

I'd have a few "suggested" levels like you mentioned from Rookie to GTAcademy but allow any and all sliders to be moved to allow complete customization by the player. The more limits and restrictions you put on things, the less fun the game is. So if I want to race with Rookie settings but turn ABS off, fine, do it. If I want to race Pro level and turn ABS on when it's normally off, no problem.

 

[Exorcet]

Casual-no needed license tests, can access most, if not all, of the game, but have limited challenges (only have these four sliders, and can only turn them up to 60%)

Makes no sense, what's the point of the 60% limit? The levels seem totally pointless. Just make the "Casual" thing the only setting, have the entire game, sliders (no limit on the number) go from 0-100%.

 

[TRLWNC7396]

Well, I thought of that to give people a reason to gold the license tests, but.... As Johnny and you have stated here, it's not totally needed, so...

This is why I ask. To get a better feel for the response and to move forward with a better plan.

 

[Pete05]

I've just started the game but I think Grid Autosport is on a good path. Everything is adjustable and your bonuses, awards, money, XP etc. is all dependent on how difficult you make a race. No ABS for me is worth more than with ABS. Aids on is less payout than aids off. Very hard AI is a better payout than hard AI. And on and on.

I'd have a few "suggested" levels like you mentioned from Rookie to GTAcademy but allow any and all sliders to be moved to allow complete customization by the player. The more limits and restrictions you put on things, the less fun the game is. So if I want to race with Rookie settings but turn ABS off, fine, do it. If I want to race Pro level and turn ABS on when it's normally off, no problem.

I'm with you Johnny. I want to be in control of how I play the game I've paid for.
I don't like being told if I want to race in a certain class I have to use this or that tyre if I want a competitive race.
Without a doubt in this world, the thing that's driving me absolutely nuts at the the moment with GT is this: 6 attempts at getting the AI right & it's obvious PD don't know black from white

This is one of the CRITICAL aspects of the game & they better get it not just ok but spot on if they want my money for GT7.

 

[TRLWNC7396]

The other part of this (for having levels) is to have a preset minimum to the sliders. If you are racing Pro, you can't drop a slider below, say 25%. (shrug)

 

[Exorcet]

The other part of this (for having levels) is to have a preset minimum to the sliders. If you are racing Pro, you can't drop a slider below, say 25%. (shrug)

But why?

 

[Johnnypenso]

The other part of this (for having levels) is to have a preset minimum to the sliders. If you are racing Pro, you can't drop a slider below, say 25%. (shrug)

IMO, forget the "pro" distinction and all other levels, they are just suggestions. Look at it this way. There's an event, a 10 lap race against the AI. The maximum payout is $100k. Turn all aids off, all difficulty sliders to max, all track conditions to real and if you win, you get the $100k.

Turn all the aids on, difficulty to minimum, win the race and you get $10k.

Every other combination of settings produces a difficulty level in between and a payout in between $10K-$100K. Perhaps the recommended settings like Rookie, Amateur, Pro etc. have fixed levels of payouts like 25%, 40%, 85% etc. but if I select Pro which has no ABS, I can still turn ABS on, it'll just lower my difficulty and my payout.

You can mix and match to suit your own needs. As you go, the game calculates an average difficulty level for you. If your personal target is to complete the game on Pro, you adjust the difficulty of each event to suit yourself. Endless challenges, endless difficulty, everybody wins.

 

[GBO Possum]

If I'm reading this right, it's a subset of this post - https://www.gtplanet.net/forum/threads/ai-sliders.311323/ by @crowhop

I like the ideas

 

[crowhop]

If I'm reading this right, it's a subset of this post - https://www.gtplanet.net/forum/threads/ai-sliders.311323/ by @crowhop

I like the ideas

Thanks for the nod.

 

[TRLWNC7396]

IMO, forget the "pro" distinction and all other levels, they are just suggestions. Look at it this way. There's an event, a 10 lap race against the AI. The maximum payout is $100k. Turn all aids off, all difficulty sliders to max, all track conditions to real and if you win, you get the $100k.

Turn all the aids on, difficulty to minimum, win the race and you get $10k.

Every other combination of settings produces a difficulty level in between and a payout in between $10K-$100K. Perhaps the recommended settings like Rookie, Amateur, Pro etc. have fixed levels of payouts like 25%, 40%, 85% etc. but if I select Pro which has no ABS, I can still turn ABS on, it'll just lower my difficulty and my payout.

You can mix and match to suit your own needs. As you go, the game calculates an average difficulty level for you. If your personal target is to complete the game on Pro, you adjust the difficulty of each event to suit yourself. Endless challenges, endless difficulty, everybody wins.

The other concept for the levels is to separate those who don't care about the options for sliders. I know someone who gets cars, hops on a track, and sees how they do. At the same time, I know others who tune their car, practice for a race, want to have options, etc. I'm in between.

So, I may want to have some sliders for details that my first friend wouldn't care about, but my second friend may want more options and details than I want.

This is why I want the levels more than anything else. But, some may want different options. That's why I'm asking.

 

[TRLWNC7396]

If I'm reading this right, it's a subset of this post - https://www.gtplanet.net/forum/threads/ai-sliders.311323/ by @crowhop

I like the ideas

Wow. I hadn't seen this yet. Awesome ideas! Maybe these could be added or mixed with mine to create different options at different levels. (For more accuracy when you want to be particular. See above.)

 

[stuff1138]

One thing I would like to add is that the varying levels of play (rookie, amateur, pro, etc.) would cause things like tire wear and race length to change as well. Again all of it being adjustable but have a default level kind of like what @Johnnypenso was talking about here with the payout system

Rookie, Amateur, Pro etc. have fixed levels of payouts like 25%, 40%, 85% etc. but if I select Pro which has no ABS, I can still turn ABS on, it'll just lower my difficulty and my payout.

Also on a side note, @TRLWNC7396 I turned on my PS3 last night and went to Netflix, searched for "Sliders" and watched the first episode...no joke.

 

[Exorcet]

The other concept for the levels is to separate those who don't care about the options for sliders. I know someone who gets cars, hops on a track, and sees how they do. At the same time, I know others who tune their car, practice for a race, want to have options, etc. I'm in between.

So, I may want to have some sliders for details that my first friend wouldn't care about, but my second friend may want more options and details than I want.

This is why I want the levels more than anything else. But, some may want different options. That's why I'm asking.

Locking out portions of the sliders doesn't do anything for this. I'm not sure hiding the sliders is beneficial either. Someone who doesn't care about options can just ignore them. Even if you hid the sliders they would still need to be set to something. Over time or on occasion, a person that doesn't fiddle with options may feel like trying something different. Rather than having to sift through very arbitrary levels with very arbitrary limitations they could just use the sliders they previously ignored.

 

[Johnnypenso]

The other concept for the levels is to separate those who don't care about the options for sliders. I know someone who gets cars, hops on a track, and sees how they do. At the same time, I know others who tune their car, practice for a race, want to have options, etc. I'm in between.

So, I may want to have some sliders for details that my first friend wouldn't care about, but my second friend may want more options and details than I want.

This is why I want the levels more than anything else. But, some may want different options. That's why I'm asking.

As @Exorcet indicates, I don't get the appeal of fixed levels of difficulty. By definition almost everyone is going to be slightly better or slightly worse than every level and it leaves you wanting to make small adjustments to turn your previous 3 second victory into a 0.23 second nail biter. Having recommended combinations is fine, if someone wants to hop in and use them that's great, you have to make the game for casual fans as well.

 

[TRLWNC7396]

Well, I wasn't thinking of hiding, but maybe combining. Like if you want aggressive AI, you could have their tuning prowess combined with speed and visual/spacial awareness for a lower level. Then if you get a higher level, you can split them out and tune them separately.

There are other options for NON-AI sliders, as well, but I'm not sure how far or easily that could go.

 

[FS7]

This seems like a way to make career mode even more locked & linear than it already is.

Maybe PD could do something similar to what Turn 10 did with Forza 4 and have 2 ways of playing career events.
Have a career mode where players start with a slow car and work their way up, have to complete races and license tests to progress through the game, and have an "event list" type of mode where all events are unlocked from the start with all options are available (AI difficulty, driving aids, standing starts, tire wear, etc) and players can play any event in any order they want.

If other people want to have a locked & linear career mode to have a sense of progression that's fine with me as long as I can play events my way. I've played previous GT games as well as other racing games with aids off, I know how to control the car, I know which car types I like and which ones I don't, I find it really annoying being forced to play career mode in a specific way, having to do tutorials of stuff I already know and play events with cars I'm not interested in.

Even though I was able to unlock all the races in GT6 in 4 days I'd prefer to have a mode where all races were unlocked from the start with all options available so I could go straight to the stuff that interests me.

 

[TRLWNC7396]

Non-AI sliders could include damage, and could be broken down to body, engine, and "other" . Either way, we will see what will happen.

 

[crowhop]

I still like this idea very much.

 

[TRLWNC7396]

I have thought of one thing that could make this work-the AI currently can run anywhere form very fast to moderately slow. (40-100%)

How about at the top level, they run a very narrow band of performance? (10% difference from fastest to slowest) That way, you can know a little better what to expect when you race them.... (shrug) Any feelings on this?