Lexus LF-A: The Long and Winding Road

[YSSMAN]

...And in one move the hopes and dreams of all Toyota fanboys are crushed in one swoop, maybe...

There will not be a new Toyota Supra, according to trade publication Automotive News. "All the rumors of the two-passenger sports car's return are false," a new report says. Instead, it looks like the Lexus LF-A will be Toyota's only supercar (pictured). The publication also said Toyota has delayed the launch of the Lexus IS convertible, because there were concerns over its competitiveness. Originally slated to debut alongside the IS coupe, the cabriolet may now be delayed until 2008. Lastly, the report indicates a successor to the Lexus SC 430 will arrive in 2008, using the IS/GS platform and a 4.6-liter V8. It will apparently feature "proportions and stance similar to those of a BMW 6 series."

I had no idea about the assorted plans for the IS lineup, so this story is quite interesting. As for the successor to the SC430, meh, I really don't care. I wasn't too particularly impressed with the origional model, as I always thought it was an over-hyped luxury convertable that really only appealed to women with large checkbooks. Could the next SC change that? Maybe, I have no idea, but I would like to see a return to the "glory days" of the SC models of the '90s.

On the death of the Supra, it is another case in which Toyota just didn't have it in them to build it. The car didn't fit in the lineup nor did it fit Toyota's current persuit of "vanilla perfection" through the overuse of technology and other not-fun materials.

As for the LF-A, it is another "whoopdy-doo" for me. Lexus can say they are going to built a 400+ BHP sportscar and give it all of the capabilities the second-largest automaker in the world can, but it won't be fun to drive, and it won't be cheap either. All it does is give Lexus bragging rights against the other automakers, but dollar for dollar, pound for pound, it still won't top an SL or 911. Do what they want, but all they are going to be catering to is the die-hard Toyota and Lexus fans.

 

[SagarisGTB]

Your assessment of the LF-A may be right. Im much more looking forward to the new NSX and GTR. Lexus has become a japanese Mercedes (except with good reliabilty).

The announcement of there being no new Supra is no shock at all. Toyota doesnt have the balls to build two 50k plus sports/super cars where there could be losses. The bean counters wont let them, the risk for loss is much too great. But I think the V10 500hp sub-3000lb LF-A might be enough if they get it right. A Supra might come later if the LF-A has success.

As for the next Soarer, it could enjoy a new life to the fullest like the TT or RL, but knowing Toyota, its likely going to be super plush, boring and not nearly as good in the hills as its competitors.

 

[red70mach1]

Toyota needs to study their demographics.

 

[YSSMAN]

Toyota needs to study their demographics.

What, so they can find out that the majority of the people who buy their cars are 40+?

 

[a6m5]

It's somewhat dissapointing, but maybe they are right. I could be mistaken, but I don't think the sports car market is not what it was like back in, before the mid-late 90's. When I was a kid(here we go), sports cars were so popular. I was one of those weird kids that liked sports sedans from BMW and Nissan. Now days, sedans are fast and powerful, even the non-sport ones. Even if Toyota came out with a solid Supra, it might not have the same impact as some of the previous Supras, and certainly not like the last generation model. I still feel like I was let down though, but it's not like I could afford it anyway.

Also, I make this same comment everytime, but I think it's kinda funny that some younger kids criticize Toyota, telling people how the company should be ran, when they are one of the few companies that are doing great business.

Way I look at it, if Toyota doesn't want to do a car I want to buy, I'll just go somewhere else. I'm not going to say Toyota should make this and that, when their business is booming. When I criticize Ford for not having cool compacts, that's a different story. Ford really should be cashing in on the high gas prices by selling Fiesta type mini car, and also something that's bit more updated than their current compact(talking about just the U.S. market, of course).

 

[Pupik]

I had no idea about the assorted plans for the IS lineup, so this story is quite interesting.

And now that the SportCross has been killed, people have asked me if it's returning...where were they 2 years ago when it flopping miserably in sales? The convertible was mentioned to us last fall by Toyota's VP of sales.

As for the successor to the SC430, meh, I really don't care. I wasn't too particularly impressed with the origional model, as I always thought it was an over-hyped luxury convertable that really only appealed to women with large checkbooks. Could the next SC change that? Maybe, I have no idea, but I would like to see a return to the "glory days" of the SC models of the '90s.

See the IS coupe for a return of the old SC and the so-called "next" Supra. Don't expect the SC glory days to return; Lexus enojys charging an arm and a leg for the SC 430. Old SC owners (mostly guys) aren't happy about the direction of the 2nd-gen SC (mostly women or retirees).

On the death of the Supra, it is another case in which Toyota just didn't have it in them to build it. The car didn't fit in the lineup nor did it fit Toyota's current persuit of "vanilla perfection" through the overuse of technology and other not-fun materials.

What's a fun material...Do I need hard drugs for that?

Toyota doesn't want to market a $50-60K sports car in a line-up with $20-40K cars. Despite all the talk for the old Supra Mk.IV, IT WAS OVERPRICED AND DIDN'T SELL WELL! When the IS coupe arrives, then you'll have a Supra-like car. Model names disappear and/or die off, it's a part of the industry. Iconic names like Corvette and Skyline are rare in the industry (although even they were both shadows of their former self from 1974 to 1984, incidently).

As for the LF-A, it is another "whoopdy-doo" for me. Lexus can say they are going to built a 400+ BHP sportscar and give it all of the capabilities the second-largest automaker in the world can, but it won't be fun to drive, and it won't be cheap either.

Nobody's publicly driven it yet. Nobody's written about the finsihed product yet. You haven't either. So how do you know it won't be fun to drive? Oh right, it's because you don't like the Toyota Camry, a car that comes form the same manufacturer. Come to think of it, have you driven more than one Toyota product, or do you just take every car magazine's word as gospel? But you're right, it won't be cheap; no luxury brand has a cheap car. But I can expect it to be reliable and far less expensive to maintain than many near-supercars.

All it does is give Lexus bragging rights against the other automakers, but dollar for dollar, pound for pound, it still won't top an SL or 911. Do what they want, but all they are going to be catering to is the die-hard Toyota and Lexus fans.

They've already converted lots of BMW/Mercedes/Acura fans; but even a few wealthy multi-Lexus owners refuse to let go of their Porsches. Doesn't matter, there's some Toyota/Lexus fans who want that car to exist, and Toyota's going for it.

 

[Jim Prower]

so...Toyota wants to throw away their growth, huh?

Ah, well. That's a shame. GM's looking for a huge growth spurt, with the Zetas.

WHAT TOYOTA NEEDS:

Forget the LF-A, Call it Supra, since the GT-R is a Nissan.

Next tC should be rear-drive, call it "Trueno" and get Initial D fanboys. Add "Levin" model to Corolla Lineup, get even more fanboys. (Some sarcasm, I'm sreious about the rear-drive thing.)

THe Hybrid fad is over. especially when it comes to (relatively) gas-guzzling Performance hybrids.

Forget Traction control and stability control on Lexuses. you're covering up a poor suspension setup.

 

[JohnBM01]

I am a fan of the Supra, so this does hit pretty hard for me. I guess this was to keep up with trends. The Celica's gone and replaced by the tC. The Toyota MR-S is with the MR-2 in the graveyard. So it leaves their only sports car- the Supra. That's been gone for a while. Now their flagship car is probably the Camry or the Corolla or whatever they have. Rivaling Nissan is still doing well with the 350Z. So I don't know. Maybe Toyota is offering mostly commuter cars for those who don't want to light up the tires and go crazy on the road.

I don't know if the LF-A will be marketed like the SLR McLaren as a quality sports car from a luxury branch of a major car company. I'm pretty sure there will be some luxury. Just not enough to say that this is a grandfather's car or whatever. Any TCS would likely be added or at least can be toggled. I don't know too much on the LF-A to actually say that I'll say goodbye to the Supra and hello to the LF-A. I'll have to read more about it to know what could be in play vs. the GT-R.

I still just hope that people saddened to not get a Toyota sports car will likely find some nicer alternatives. Question is, will the "fanboys" (I hate using that term much less referring to people as such) still appreciate the cars available from Toyota or just care more about older times when you had the Celica GT-Four and Supra as two of the finest Toyota models (Chaser nonwithstanding). Whether or not this is a big loss depends on how much you like Toyota and what their past offerings brought about compared to now.

 

[Pink_the_Floyd]

I don't know what to believe...

 

[YSSMAN]

Nobody's publicly driven it yet. Nobody's written about the finsihed product yet. You haven't either. So how do you know it won't be fun to drive? Oh right, it's because you don't like the Toyota Camry, a car that comes form the same manufacturer. Come to think of it, have you driven more than one Toyota product, or do you just take every car magazine's word as gospel? But you're right, it won't be cheap; no luxury brand has a cheap car. But I can expect it to be reliable and far less expensive to maintain than many near-supercars.

Obviously no one has driven it, but you can make a rough assumption of what the car will be like when you take a look at the lineup at your local Lexus dealer. Cars like the IS and the GS are given all of the capabilities that Lexus can give them to be some seriously hardcore sports sedans, but then they manage to ruin it with TCS and ESP (among other nannies) that cannot be turned off and only allow the cars to be driven at 8/10s most of the time.

Could things change in time for the LF-A? I'd sincerely hope so, but given Lexus' current track record, I'm betting that it won't. I'll still shop for the SL or XK myself, no matter how "poor" the build quality may be.

As for driving recent Toyota products, yes, I've driven a few. The 2007 Toyota Camry would indeed be the newest, the next closest being the 2005 Toyota Corolla S I had to take care of for a friend. I've done some tinkering with a Tundra, and I've had a ride in a Sienna as well as the previous ES330. All match my current opinion, and it is what it is, my opinion.

The last Toyota I drove that didn't fit the picture was the IS300, and that was quite some time ago. Back in the era of the Celica GT-S, argueably the most exciting car built by Toyota in some time, the IS300 was quite the car. We didn't end up buying it, in fact we didn't buy any of the cars we were looking at, as we instead bought a Tahoe.

 

[YSSMAN]

Looks like the LF-A has risen again...

The Lexus LF-A concept car has made a public appearance at the Tokyo Motor Show and elsewhere. However, while the shiny display model was on the Lexus stand, a black-clad prototype has been in testing since April.

These latest photos show engineers putting the car through the paces at Germany's Nurburgring circuit. The car's complete roofline is now visible, and we expect more camo will be dropped in the coming months.

Toyota officials let slip in Tokyo that the production car, likely to be called the LF-H, is going to have a V10 engine, developed from the engines in Toyota's F1 cars, which is thought to develop over 500 hp. Although the engine is front- rather than mid-mounted, the LF-H will be rear-wheel drive, and Lexus has promised "the ultimate weight balance," "extravagant comfort" and "precision operation." The LF-H hasn't yet been confirmed for production, but the continued and sustained testing of prototypes suggests that it's a pretty definite contender.

Yay?

It will be interesting to see what comes of this, as it is obviously the answer to the GT-R in some respects. But with Cadillac, BMW, and even Mercedes-Benz now into the near 500 to 500 BHP pack, will this Lexus be enough to compete?

As I've noted before, "maybe."

 

[Jay]

Looks like the LF-A has risen again...

Toyota buys Lotus..... and thats the new Esprit




j/k

 

[a6m5]

They should. Toyota made Lexus into one of the most successful luxury car maker, long time ago. It's time for new challenge!

It would suck for Lotus fans though. If Lotus can achieve more success with the Toyota tech like with the Elise, I think it will be cool though.

 

[Pink_the_Floyd]

Hmmm, finally Toyota comes up with something to compete with the Ford GT. I don't know what Toyota's up to, but it isn't good...

 

[TheCracker]

It looks good. It also looks to be a very similar shape to the 599 Fiorano - which is no bad thing 👍

 

[Leonidae]

and so does Z06. but with 100k less on price tag.

 

[Pupik]

Although the engine is front- rather than mid-mounted, the LF-H will be rear-wheel drive, and Lexus has promised "the ultimate weight balance,"...

It's going to have one heck of a large fuel tank to make that happen; although the driver in the test photos is sitting just about in the center of the car.

GT 500 sounds good to me, although usage of "GT 500" sounds a little overused.

 

[MistaX]

Hmmm, finally Toyota comes up with something to compete with the Ford GT.

Yes, it's always a companies aim to beat a car that's out of production with a car 2 model years late.


They arn't even in the same class...

"Although the engine is front- rather than mid-mounted, the LF-H will be rear-wheel drive, and Lexus has promised "the ultimate weight balance," "extravagant comfort" and "precision operation."

Name one bit of the GT that fits "extravagant comfort"


If anything it's direct compition to cars like the XLR-V and the M6.

 

[usedHONDA]

Kind of a heart-breaker.

Yet another Avatar for Yssman.

 

[YSSMAN]

Lol, I swar I didn't pay him to write that...

---

I think being cautiously optimistic about the car is a reasonable stance, as the prototypes have been rolling around for nearly three years now. Lexus keeps talking, but really hasn't delivered on the product... Added to that, their current track record with "sporty" models hasn't been that great either. Particularly those hybrid "sports" models.

If Toyota dumps the money in, gets the engineers working, and can create a product for right around $100K with 500BHP, this will be something (as noted before) to compete with the XLR-V, M6, XKR, etc. Tough competition no-less, throw Porsche into the mix, and things get even more complicated.

Let me put it this way:

"I'll belive it when I see it..."

Untill then, I'll do my $100K luxury sportscar shoping at the local Jaguar or Porsche dealer...

 

[GT Pro]

I think being cautiously optimistic about the car is a reasonable stance, as the prototypes have been rolling around for nearly three years now. Lexus keeps talking, but really hasn't delivered on the product... Added to that, their current track record with "sporty" models hasn't been that great either. Particularly those hybrid "sports" models.

If Toyota dumps the money in, gets the engineers working, and can create a product for right around $100K with 500BHP, this will be something (as noted before) to compete with the XLR-V, M6, XKR, etc. Tough competition no-less, throw Porsche into the mix, and things get even more complicated.

Let me put it this way:

"I'll belive it when I see it..."

Untill then, I'll do my $100K luxury sportscar shoping at the local Jaguar or Porsche dealer...

I'm with you there, Lexus needs to prove that it can develop a high-strung sport model for it's lineup, as well as proving it's aesthetic beauty can be backed by high-end techonological performance. But with F1 technology under their belt, I'm sure Toyota will deliver on that one.

The concept that was unveiled at the start of this year looked great, I really wouldn't change anything on it.
Though, im still wondering whether the engine being mounted straight in the front is a good idea.

But then again, I'm going to look towards this car optimistically, as it'll end up a vehicle for those feeling to 'old' in a British/ German 100k luxury sportscar, which is exactly what I dislike when I'm sitting in a vehicle.

 

[Pink_the_Floyd]

YSSMAN, I think those spyshots are seriously old. Serious, google is filled with LF-A pictures...

 

[harrytuttle]

so...Toyota wants to throw away their growth, huh?

Ah, well. That's a shame. GM's looking for a huge growth spurt, with the Zetas.

WHAT TOYOTA NEEDS:

Forget the LF-A, Call it Supra, since the GT-R is a Nissan.

Next tC should be rear-drive, call it "Trueno" and get Initial D fanboys. Add "Levin" model to Corolla Lineup, get even more fanboys. (Some sarcasm, I'm sreious about the rear-drive thing.)

Wow. What if it all comes rushing back to us: RX-7 (2-door RX-8 turbo), Supra (V8 LFA), 300ZX (350Z GT-S) alongside the GT-R, Camaro, Shelby Mustangs, Challenger...it's like both baby boomers and Gen X get to have their old cars all over again.

THe Hybrid fad is over. especially when it comes to (relatively) gas-guzzling Performance hybrids.

God, I hope so. Hybrids are a nice band-aid, but a major environmental disaster if they become mainstream. Duracell batteries are bad enough. Pure hydrogen combustion would be it for me. 👍

 

[YSSMAN]

YSSMAN, I think those spyshots are seriously old. Serious, google is filled with LF-A pictures...

Well, I bring the news as I see it come across my computer... If you have better spy-shots to share, feel free to post. Obviously I don't go looking for LF-A news every day, but I thought that the story was interesting given that not much has been said about the car in a few months...

---

I was thinking about this earlier today:

With Toyota so dead-set on Hybrid power for every model (as they are now promising), I am wondering what the chances will be of a "reasonable" hybrid version, maybe called the "SC500h"? Not a bright idea in my book, but it would be interesting to see how Toyota would adapt to that idea.

But I'm still not putting all of my beans in the Toyota basket either. They have been tinkering around with the car long-enough, I often wonder how much more it will take to get the car offically announced. I'm sure they are waiting on reactions to cars like the GT-R here in the US, but even then, that may be a poor model to look at given that it will be sold as a Lexus, not a Toyota.

 

[GT Pro]

so...Toyota wants to throw away their growth, huh?

Ah, well. That's a shame. GM's looking for a huge growth spurt, with the Zetas.

WHAT TOYOTA NEEDS:

Forget the LF-A, Call it Supra, since the GT-R is a Nissan.

Next tC should be rear-drive, call it "Trueno" and get Initial D fanboys. Add "Levin" model to Corolla Lineup, get even more fanboys. (Some sarcasm, I'm sreious about the rear-drive thing.).

Damn, that would be a dream come true. And the Levin and Supra renaming idea would probably work well... for a few weeks.

 

[Pupik]

Since there's no plans for an IS-based hybrid, or a SC-based hybrid, I think you can stop worrying about an LF-H-hybrid appearing. Some of my hybrid customers have some complaints about the road feel of the electrically-activated steering feel at speeds about 30 mph.

The reason for the steering feel is that the accessory drive belt, which normally spins the power stering pump pulley, isn't pulled by the engine, is powered by the MG1 electrical motor for better fuel economy. So it works nicely and quietly for fuel economy, and isn't a bad idea for tight parking manuevers, but lifeless on a curvy road.

The Supra name is dead for now, people. Nobody wanted a $50,000 Supra ten years ago, they won't want a $100,000 Supra in two years, even if it's sold at a Lexus dealer.

 

[GT4_Rule]

Toyota talks about losses, yet they earned the most money last year. They're too chickens. Chevrolet is suffering huge losses, yet they continue with the SSR. VolksWagen is taking on big losses every time a Veyron is sold, yet are they stopping production halfway? No.

Toyota just missed the chance to make their brand fun, once again. I don't call the 2007 Camry fun, neither do I call the RAV4 exciting.

 

[YSSMAN]

(Actually Chevrolet stopped SSR production months ago. There aren't any plans to revive the model in any shape or form as sales were far too slow, and the death of the GMT360 paltform has pretty much sealed the deal)

 

[GT4_Rule]

The car was still listed on chevrolet.com right after my previous post though.

 

[MistaX]

The Supra name is dead for now, people. Nobody wanted a $50,000 Supra ten years ago, they won't want a $100,000 Supra in two years, even if it's sold at a Lexus dealer.

How much do MKIV Supra's sell for now?


Oh yea, $50,000.


Name one other car from the 1990's that's INCREASED in value over the years.

People didn't want them then, but they sure as hell want them now.