Living in London - What's it like?

[Dragonistic]

Quick bit of background, I've just finished uni (pending classification on my degree) and given the current employment market in the UK I've been applying to a fair amount of jobs, one graduate scheme in particular with Reed.co.uk (the actual employment agency I've been applying through). Given the number of applicants (100+) I thought I had no chance, so the fact it asked for geographical flexibility didn't concern me and if nothing else it was just something to show I'm trying to get a job.

Much to my surprise I'm now in the penultimate stages of the application process and I have a choice of 3 placements to choose from before advancing 2 of which are London based the other is sort of lucky dip but they try to give you the most local they can. I'd not considered moving away before and this will be a huge change (living with parents in Oswestry practically in a house in a field ). It's a frightening prospect and I just wasn't ready to move anytime in the next year but now I actually have the opportunity to do so I'm having to very carefully reconsider as there's a chance I could remain at home, jobless, for many months to come or I could be living in London with 3 years worth of work ahead of me minimum and full study support towards my preferred qualification.

So, who out there on GTP currently lives in London? I've never lived in a real city before (Bangor doesn't count, it just doesn't ). How will living costs be (salary is £21,000pa minimum so assume that)? Will I even find a place worth living in with money to spare? The office in the best placement for me is based in Holborn which I know nothing of as well.

Generally all information is useful now, I have less then 24 hours to make a decision on the placement I go for (so little warning!).

 

[Mrs. Famine]

Generally if an employer offers you a placement in London, they have to take into account the cost of living and your salary will reflect that (London weighting). Renting in London itself is very pricey, you'll probably get a 1 bed flat for around £800pcm. You could also rent outside London and commute in using the train. Don't even think of driving in London - the transport of choice is train and/or bus.

Everything you buy has an inflated price including food and drink.

However, if you do choose to go then it will be an interesting experience for you and will definitely put you in an excellent position for future jobs. Personally I absolutely detest London but there are people who love living there. There's always something going on, somewhere to go and you're guaranteed to make friends quickly.

I don't live there and certainly don't intend to but I have worked there enough times and have friends who live there to be qualified enough to comment! If you don't like it, you could always go home again

 

[PeterJB]

Go for walks in the parks as often as you can, because the noise and constant urban environment will drive you insane.

 

[W3H5]

I lived the first 20 years of my life in London. Greater London to be exact.

If you can commute rather than live central it would be better in my view. I rode a motorcycle or trains when I worked in the city and it was relatively easy.

The cost is high for living, generally. Eating out, getting around and what not will cost a fair bit but it helps if your salary is set for those expensive which, at 21k, should be.

Crime is a major factor living in a big city. I don't want to put you off but London can be a dangerous place if precautions aren't taken (out late alone, wrong crowd, bad neighbourhood...). It was a big part of my not wanting to keep living there after growing up surrounded by thieves, gangs, drunks and drugs.

If it's a possibility then commuting by motorcycle is a good way to go. That way you can avoid living in expensive places and settle just outside of London. The train systems are good but reliability can be a problem sometimes, not to mention the cost.

 

[axletramp]

You'll love how everyone is so helpful and chatty, especially on the Northern, Central and District lines at about 1:00am. And if you get lost late at night in the West End there's no need to worry about asking for directions as no-one speaks English saving you plenty of time.

 

[Dragonistic]

Thanks for the responses, fortunately I've been riding motorcycle for the past 5 years so I'm fairly set on that and with the signing bonus for the job I can finally ditch the L plates and start thinking about an upgrade from my rather unreliable DT125 to another 125 (which is more like a sensible downgrade) or a 250 something and grab a bike satnav to go with it which I'll definately need particularly as I'm not used to navigating around a city.

Frankly I'm not the most sociable person in the world when it comes to going out late, even as a student I barely went out for that sort of thing so I'm not to worried about that. Security in general is a concern though, particularly with a theft friendly motorcycle parked somewhere and a fair amount of expensive kit at home as well.

Cost of living is definately another concern, though the salary appears quite high and is likely to rise my worry is I won't be able to afford a nice place to live, it doesn't have to be big but it has to be fairly decent and safe or I won't take the job. However conversely I am likely to need a car to live with my parents rather then a motorcycle due to lack of a good infrastructure and availability of jobs although I'm waiting for alot of jobs to get back to me.

I find myself at a crossroads, there's alot I'll be leaving behind if I do have to move for either of the positions. On the other hand it's the best opportunity I've got to get on a graduate scheme this September rather than next and if it's with a decently large firm it'll probably result in the same sort of decision in a years time. It's far to soon for me to be thinking about this now, but I can think of nothing worse then come September I'm still unemployed living with my parents (whom I love living with, but I don't love being dependent upon) when I could have been already working.

 

[W3H5]

I used to run a Yamaha RXS100 2-stroke everyday over ~40 miles for commuting and never had a problem. Something like a CB250 would be a great commuter bike if you're on a full licence. Not sure the power-bands on a DT were made for London A-roads.

 

[Lizard]

London. Although I have never lived or worked there I have lived near before and so do my family.


I say get a place outside of London and get a train in. The train trips are quite quick if you are willing. To get to Brooklands (Where that GT5 contest was) is about half an hour on a fast train from center of London. (Waterloo) Or if you want to live closer you can try places like Surbiton or other outer London areas.


The tube I would say is the only real way of getting round the center unless you want to be in traffic for hours. It can be tight and manners go out the window people just want the first train they can but if you get used to it its not that bad.

The area round it well Surrey at least (can't talk for other places) is quite nice and relaxing but expensive but still cheeper than london.

Hope that helps. I would recomend London though as once you get used to the way of life it's quite an enjoyable place to live.

 

[W3H5]

Living in Central London bicycle is the travel method of choice.

 

[mattythedog]

Or just use the Boris Bikes. Free under for use under 30 mins.

I'll echo the others by saying if you can, live out from the centre, and commute in. The trains are (mostly) very good and quick, and living away from the centre means there are more parks, and everything is generally more relaxed and less hectic.

 

[lbsf1]

I don't know about living in the city however I live 25miles outside London so my point of view of more of commuting in. I have been to London a couple of times on the train in rush hour traffic and it isn't too bad in my experience (Woking-London Waterloo and visa versa), yes it is busy however its not unbearable, and the trains as much as we complain about them arn't actually that bad, (my dad goes in to London every couple of weeks on the train and has never had a noticeable delay.)

I city is much different to the suburbs or countryside, embrace it, see it as an adventure. From what you have described it would seem to set you in brilliant stead for the future.

 

[F1 fan]

Go for walks in the parks as often as you can, because the noise and constant urban environment will drive you insane.

Depends on the person. I love Tokyo, even though I'm still overwhelmed by the scale of it.

 

[Nessy]

I used to live in Edgware for 4yrs (north outskirts) about 8yrs ago. Unless you're going to get some kind of London weighting, then you may find it hard going TBH. Lived in 3 different places in Edgeware, the cheapest place that i rented was a tiny studio flat (with a stupid drop down bed ), that was around just under £600 per month, got sick with the lack of space in the end and ended up renting a 1 bedroom flat about a mile further out, the rent on that property was £700 per month (was furnished though).

Despite the expense, Overall London is a great place to live, and i'm sure you'll make some great friends there and have many great times.. i Know i did .

[EDIT]

You may find south east London cheaper to live, maybe around Woolich, Deptford, Lewisham or Plumstead or even Barking (near Essex).

 

[Dragonistic]

I used to run a Yamaha RXS100 2-stroke everyday over ~40 miles for commuting and never had a problem. Something like a CB250 would be a great commuter bike if you're on a full licence. Not sure the power-bands on a DT were made for London A-roads.

It's an '05 SM so it's sort of designed for a city environment, though more for speeding around everywhere as opposed to commuting I think of it as like riding a really small turbo bike because all the power is up top. I'm not sure my ego could take the hit of a pure commuter bike, if I do that I may as well have a CG125 and have minimum costs and maximum mileage but what I'd really like is a WR250X (I was going to get a Husqvarna SMR510 if I stay out of the city where it'll be more toy then transport, you'll notice a theme).

I've had a look at some rental homes on the web, prices can get as low as £550pcm for some acceptable looking properties plus some really nice ones a bit further out for sub £800pcm. These are all more towards the outskirts where I'd travel in by train and use the motorcycle more for errands and social calls. Alternatively I might just sell the bike and forget about them and put it the money away towards my PC build depending how much income I'll have spare (which depends on rent). After tax, NIC and other lets say 'unexpected' expenses or even savings I'll have £1250pcm (£15000pa assumed, reality is likely comfortably higher), to spend from which I must pay rent, travel, bills and food. My lack of experience in paying bills and such mean I'm not entirely sure how that will stack up, is £450-500 a month enough to live comfortably? In reality I'd likely go for as cheap as I feel will keep my stuff safe and is in good condition and save my money towards better things and things I want but don't need.

 

[MagpieRacer]

I echo the other guys. Central London will be expensive. You may wish to look at surrounding areas, High Wycombe, Reading, Woking, Guildford, Watford etc. All easily within reach for commuting and probably cheaper. Some of those places also still cater for London Weighting.

 

[Dragonistic]

Establishing a rough, very rough estimate of living costs is the main issue as I have no clue and can't give myself a rent budget. Ultimately if I pursue the position but can't find a place to live, I will turn them down.

 

[Famine]

Establishing a rough, very rough estimate of living costs is the main issue as I have no clue and can't give myself a rent budget. Ultimately if I pursue the position but can't find a place to live, I will turn them down.

£21k including LW will not be enough for anyone to live and work within the M25.

£25k wasn't when I earned it in 2003, working in west London - even the £3,500 rail ticket to somewhere else and living there represented a saving over living in London.

 

[Dragonistic]

What about live outside and work in? Will I save enough that way or can I right this job off now.

 

[W3H5]

For 21k I'll echo Famine's comment. It'll be a push to get by financially.

I spent my last few years in London living in Havering having moved from Barking & Dagenham borough, Havering (Harold Hill ) being spitting distance from Essex county border. I had a counsel bedsit so the rent wasn't too bad; £80 each week.

While taking the train (only Docklands mind, not central) I was paying £20 something a week for a train ticket as I was unfortunate enough that over-grounds didn't take Oyster at the time, I don't know about now.

A flat share might work out cheaper in more centralised locale, if you can put up with living with other people, probably students.

Thinking about it, for about 1k a month you might be able to rent a room, literally just a room, in Greenwich, as I've had friends do the same.

EDIT: Would you lodge? My nan's got a spare room.

 

[Nessy]

Famine's right, inside the M25 for 21K is pretty much impossible. W3HS's idea of lodging would definitely be a great option though, you should seriously consider it.

I would also consider Edgware (where i used to live), it's quite a convenient place to live, Edgware RD, is just 1 long road leading to central London, Northern lines great and bus services are regular, heck.. i even used to walk to work in Cricklewood when the weather was fine (about 1 and half hours walk).. though on many occasions that journey took closer to 3hrs because of Oriental City (finest food court in the whole of London imo ), absolutely gutted the place don't exist anymore.

Seriously i wouldn't right off that job just yet, and if i was you, i'd definitely look at the option of lodging like W3HS suggested, i reckon it's got to be the cheapest option.

 

[Famine]

What about live outside and work in? Will I save enough that way or can I right this job off now.

It depends where you live.

I lived in Ashford, Kent and commuted to South Kensington - 2hr each way, each day. The travel cost me about £3.5k (which obliterated the London Weighting and then some) and renting an unfurnished two-and-a-half bed house in Ashford was £600 a month (£7.2k pa), latterly replaced with a £650pcm mortgage (£7.8k pa) at about 2.5% on a £120k loan. That's £11k-£12k of your salary immediately killed.

Oh, and that's £11k-£12k of your net salary. A between a quarter and a third of your gross salary - call it £6k here - vanishes in tax and national insurance before you see it. You've now got £4k tops - £330 a month - to live on, eat with, save from and pay your bills... And Council Tax swallows £1.2k of that. But since you spend 4hr a day travelling on top of your 8hr a day working, you don't really have any spare waking time to fritter money away. It's all good

On £25k I could just have made it work on my own. Luckily I lived with someone at the time and we made it work together more easily.

There are cheaper places to live, of course, but on a general rule of thumb the closer you get to London the more expensive rent and mortgages get - and they do so quicker than the train ticket gets cheaper - but the more hole they become. Ashford's a sphincter, but I largely knew my car would be there and not keyed the next morning. If I'd lived in Beckenham, I wouldn't have even been sure it wouldn't be on fire at some point during the night. You can also manage your expectations - I lived with someone and we had friends, so a two-and-a-half bed house was what we preferred, but if you're on your own there's no reason you need or need pay for anything over a one bed flat for £350pcm (if you can find it).


Living southeast of London is expensive because everyone else does it - 7 million people. Living northeast of London is expensive because they're aspirational Estuaryites. Living west of London is expensive because it's affluent and everyone else does it - the M4 corridor and GWR. Living south of London is expensive because it's affluent and rural. Living north of London is the leat expensive option, because Luton.

 

[axletramp]

Wow. Just reading Famine's post makes me realise how much more expensive it is now to live and work around London than when I was doing it back in the 90s. I used to live in Tonbridge in Kent (still have the house there) and drive up to White City (W12) everyday for 13 years. I used to leave at 6:00am and get to work by 7:30am to avoid the worst of the traffic - this was pre-congestion charge days. I then left at 5:00pm (if I wasn't working late) and get home for 7:00pm (if I was lucky). Round trip was 84 miles a day (25,000 a year) and I learnt a route which kept me off the motorways to avoid the nonsense that goes on there. It was knackering and one of the reasons I left the UK - not seeing my son during the week and ridiculous tax levels didn't help.

I was lucky enough not to have to get the train apart from those times when the car needed servicing, etc. The journey wasn't too bad as Tonbridge is a mainline station so there were plenty of trains to choose from to London Bridge and Charing Cross. It was the tube journey which was the pain in the butt. It took half as much time again to get from Charing Cross to W12 by tube as it did to get from Tonbridge in to Charing Cross! Even in the 90s that was £2000-3000 p.a. I preferred my freedom in the car rather than that rush especially as it included a bus ride home as well.

Not sure what I'd do now because of the congestion charge. Just have to bite the bullet I'd imagine, or go Eco and get a sub-100g/m car.

So it's swings and roundabouts really. Expensive to live in London itself, but a grinding slog from the outside. Thought about moving abroad or to another location where you profession pays just as well?

 

[Dragonistic]

Thanks, now we're getting somewhere. Things like council tax are things I've never had to worry about so hadn't factored in. I'll raise my concerns when they phone today over living arrangements and costs to see what they can do for me. Hopefully I can find out the location of the other placement as well and subsequently make a more informed decision, London doesn't sound very viable right now. I would consider any type of accommodation really, so long as I can afford to live and travel with some security.

Once again the only reason I'm considering this is because professionally at the end of the 3 years of placement I will be in a very good place. As much as I would like more money now beggars can't be choosers so ultimately it comes down to who will pay me enough to live where I can work and put a little bit away whilst I become more experienced. I'm not looking to far from home generally and I get a job locally then I'll be living at home and earning so much more net income after living expenses. This scheme came up under a local search so I applied anyway knowing I might have to move later but not expecting to have to consider moving to London come September.

My main concern is if I take this scheme and miss out on a job at home I'm going to have a huge opportunity cost where I'll be struggling to make ends meet compared to having incredibly low living costs with a similar wage for at least a few years, though with worse training. On the other hand if I don't take this scheme and I end up living with my parents on jobseekers because it's so difficult to find a job here (seemingly, I'm waiting for 7 replies currently and none have done so) I'm going to feel even worse potentially.

 

[DQuaN]

London is a very diverse place. What are the 2 areas they have offered you?

 

[Sureboss]

sub 100g/km might be better

As for living South of London and commuting in, well, anywhere, do the company offer paying part of your travel? It's not too uncommon down here.

Horsham is a popular commuter route, you can get a nice and secure 1 bed flat for £600 and a bit under there. Season ticket is £3.5k pa and that's an hours commute to London Vic. It's an hour and a half to LondonVic from here, it goes up to £4k for that, rental prices drop about 10% for that.

I think the lodging idea is a good option to explore.

As for bills, I think living on your own £200/month should comfortably cover it, though it would depend, as some flats pay council rent (which would be the biggest bill by far). Food, £30/40 p/week should be comfortable.

You'll need Tube tickets too, probably.

http://www.tfl.gov.uk/tickets/14416.aspx

London Vic is in Zone 1, as is Holborn (and not too far, either), so that's another ~£90/month.

I think it's doable. You're essentially looking at £400/month if travelling from Horsham (I don't know of areas north of that but outside of M25 very well) £600/m for a flat and probably £3-400 more on all your bills. That's going to be tight on £21k, though it might be more, you don't know yet. Though looking at that travel and rent, you might as well live inside the travelzones, what's in travelzone 9?

Ockendon is okay from what I remember of a friends stay there (though it is Essex), so that'd be cheaper. But you'd have to really ask someone who knew the area better, looking at my calculations from earlier you shouldn't discount less travel!

The 16-25 railcard wouldn't apply due to the time you'd be travelling (what, you thought it was there to ease finances for young adults? Don't be silly).

Lodgings is definitely something to look in to, I also wouldn't pull out of yet either, you can go through this in further interviews, it's in your employers interest as well as yours. And as MrsF said, if it doesn't work out, you just go back home, got to try things to know whether you like them or not, you won't be rolling in it, but it's doable.

As for London, I think parts of it are okay, I don't really like any city, but as DQuan says, it can vary a lot.

 

[PAPPACLART]

You will struggle on £21,000 a year. Forget renting your own place, and get used to the idea of sharing with other people. Cheapest flat may start around £800pm, include council tax, internet phone, gas electricity and you are looking at £1000 per month. Look for a room or house share but still expect to pay more than £500 per month for something not infested with rats or cockroaches. If you are happy living in a cupboard rooms start at around £350.

Living on the outskirts of London and commuting in is never really worth it. The money you save on rent will be stolen back off of you with Train/Underground and bus tickets, costing anywhere between £200/300 a month, not to mention the extra commuting time eating away at your personal time.

I moved away from London 2 years ago and live in Italy, that says it all. Italy is not much better in many ways, but at least there is Sun. lol

Of course London has its good points, tons of variety, good night life, lots to see and do. When you do get Sun, the parks are lovely places to be, and offer a glimmer relaxation time from the grind.

If you are a country boy, the high stress and fast pace of London will likely come as a shock to you.


I make it all sound doom and gloom, but if you are happy in a room, check Houslow, Ealing or even Canry wharf, get a room, pay £500 all in, and on 21,000pa you will be left with around £900 pm for travel, phone, internet and social life, which is more than enough. Salary Calculator


for property rentals

Gumtree (watch for the scams, and if it is too good to be true then it is not true.

Zoolpla

 

[Nessy]

On £25k I could just have made it work on my own. Luckily I lived with someone at the time and we made it work together more easily.

Same here, i could have just about managed on my own but it would have been scraping the barrel with zero leisure (or saving) money to boot, but luckily me and my partner shared the costs.. Funnily enough, she did pretty much the same as you did before we decided to move to London, her job was in London but she used to commute from Sittingbourne everyday, only about 1hr or so on the train, Sittingbourne isn't too bad a place... well apart having the poophole Isle of Sheppy pretty much on your doorstep.

 

[Famine]

And with the risk of explosive death...

 

[Nessy]

Explosive death?

[EDIT]

Oh, didn't see the link.

"Deadly", that don't sound good at all.

 

[PAPPACLART]

PS forgot to mention, not sure what the earning threashold is, but you may be eligible for Tax credits which could top up your salary by as much as £50 a week. Additionally, based upon your earnings vs what you pay for housing, you also may be able to get some kind of assistants with your rent payments.

Working Tax Credit

If you do live far from work, think about a scooter or cheap motorbike 125cc etc, you will save a stack of time, and in the long run the cost per year would likely be cheaper vs commuting on trains/tube/buses.

Also, get to know people, having a bike will help you 10 fold as well as making it easier to get about (London is huge) Assuming you like cars, head to the Ace Cafe (car and biker cafe) also, Bar Italia - Frith street (w1) the guys from sv650.org have a bike meet Friday, bikes may not be your thing but a great bunch of people hang there, I know many of them and can introduce you. Knowing more people will help you get by, for sure. Good friends in London are very important to have.