LMP/Group C tire wear question

[torque998]

Hi all

I searched and I couldn't get what I was looking for so, I've got a question regarding the tire wear of the LMP/Group C cars. How come the Group C cars are lighter and more powerful than the LMP's, yet most of them tend to chew up the rear tires very quickly? It's the exact opposite for the LMP's. They're heavier and less powerful than the Group C's, yet they get don't chew up the rear tires as quickly. Why is this?

 

[F310B]

Good question. Well, I suppose they are designed for 'endurance'. That's the whole design ethic. Maybe progress has been made in making a car easier on it's tyres, in the last 10 years?

 

[jmillheiser]

the group C cars are considerabley more powerful. hence they are constatly either spinning the tires or on the edge of wheelspin.

one hint to make life a little easier in a group C is to crank the TCS way up. keeps the wheelspin down and will give you another lap or two on your tires

 

[torque998]

Yes, I know turning TCS up does reduce rear tire wear, but it seems like no matter what the TCS setting, cars like the Minolta Toyota 88C-V, Nissan R92CP, and Sauber Mercedes C9 always seem to chew up the rear tires more quickly than any of the LMP's.

 

[colnago]

Yes, I know turning TCS up does reduce rear tire wear, but it seems like no matter what the TCS setting, cars like the Minolta Toyota 88C-V, Nissan R92CP, and Sauber Mercedes C9 always seem to chew up the rear tires more quickly than any of the LMP's.

Try softening your suspension. At the high speeds on some of the more bumpy tracks, the small road imperfections cause the car to lift, and subsequently allows the tire to accelerate while in the air, and the tire grinds as it hits the ground...until TC can catch up.

 

[TAFKADY]

I'm convinced that in GT4 Group C cars wear out tires much quicker no matter if driving on bumpy tracks or not. I think there are the following two reasons:

1.) Tires have improved over the years between Group C cars and LMPs.
Good example is a current Formula 1 tyre compared to old ones.

2.) PD had to add a handicap to make the LMPs more competitive against Group C cars.
Imagine you are racing against a Sauber C9 in a Pescarolo C60 and he can go as many laps as you can - that would be pretty annoying wouldn't it?

 

[Old Geezer]

WOW! A thread with an Intelligent question & more than ONE Intelligent answer! THANX Guys for a "Good Read" this morning! ...O.G.

 

[colnago]

I'm convinced that in GT4 Group C cars wear out tires much quicker no matter if driving on bumpy tracks or not...

Look at your driving style as well. Last night I finished up the GT Worlds, in Professional Races, with the Toyota GT-One, in stock trim ~770hp, using "Hard Tires" (R2). In real life coompetition trim, this car ran somewhere in the low-mid 600hp range. So as you stated, PD tried to level the playing field. With that said, I ran the series and when I "pushed" to keep pace with the higher hp Sauber, Nissan 92C and the other Nissan (89 something), I had greater wear with the rears using "fast in-fast out" cornering style. Subsequently, I slid a lot trying to keep up, using the "no pit strategy", while the other cars obviously were running "Medium" (R3) tires as they always pit.

Later in the series, I tried less hard to "keep" pace and just ran smooth consistent laps and had even tire wear with the (R1) tires. Now if your theory held true, then I would have seen greater tire wear when I started the series over with the same car, stg. 3 turbo, and a switch to "Medium" tires. I forced myself to stay clean, smooth, consistent, as I strove to complete more than half of the laps on the first stint. I found that I lapped the AI from 1-3 seconds faster every lap, and still had even tire wear each race. But with the softer compound, if what you are saying held true, I would have eaten up the rears much faster.

I still say that car setup has a big part in tire wear, but as I failed to mention, driving style more so. But then again, car setup can greatly affect driving style depending on what you can get out of it, i.e. understeer or oversteer.

*If the car is oversteering, then your rears are going to wear faster than the fronts.

*If your car is understeering, then the fronts wear faster than the rears.

Hope you can work out your issues. It's nice to be able to jump in the various cars from the various eras and still have a sense of the different handling and performance characteristics.

 

[Alfaholic]

Hi all

I searched and I couldn't get what I was looking for so, I've got a question regarding the tire wear of the LMP/Group C cars. How come the Group C cars are lighter and more powerful than the LMP's, yet most of them tend to chew up the rear tires very quickly? It's the exact opposite for the LMP's. They're heavier and less powerful than the Group C's, yet they get don't chew up the rear tires as quickly. Why is this?

I would say the answer is probably in your question. The group C cars go through their rear tyres faster because they are lighter and more powerful. The more powerful, lighter car might be more prone to spinning its rear wheels because it probably has more torque to go with its extra power, and it has less traction to resist the torque because there is less weight (force) pressing the tyres into the road, and friction is a product of force. Light weight improves cornering (less inertia) but hinders traction (less friction).

This is part of the reason why F1 cars run such high profile tyres at such low pressures (just over 1 bar I think). The resultant deformation of the tyre due to the car's mass pressing on them gives both grip for traction, and a larger contact patch for cornering.

 

[colnago]

I would say the answer is probably in your question. The group C cars go through their rear tyres faster because they are lighter and more powerful. The more powerful, lighter car might be more prone to spinning its rear wheels because it probably has more torque to go with its extra power, and it has less traction to resist the torque because there is less weight (force) pressing the tyres into the road, and friction is a product of force...

But most of the "Group C" cars are within 5-10% of the "LMP" cars' weight, if not 900kg as well. If I'm not mistaken, none of the cars are "front engined" so the bulk of the car's weight, is going to be closer to the rear any way. While agree about the higher power causing a lack of grip, Group C cars can be made to promote even tire wear.

Either way, you would have to get more grip in the rear via:

* softer rear suspension
* softer tires (as you stated, but not possible in GT, some of the F1 games though)
* higher downforce in the rear
* higher TC
* better throttle control
* or just plain taller gears

 

[chattimus]

I cant explain why exactly besides just the torque and weight differnce but in my case i just use no TCS on a R8 racecar 05' and i found that throttle control along with the hardest thing to do not spinout are the two major things when it comes to tire wear cause idk if yall have noticed also but once youve spun it once its like the tyres have a coating of ice layered on them and its doubley hard to keep the car straight after that first spin-out