Looking for a 5.1 Home Theatre System

[Vasco]

Hi,
As the title states...I'm currently shopping around for a 5.1 Home Theatre System. My budget is approximately $1000 AUD (that's what I'd like to spend, but I'm willing to go a bit higher if need be or a good deal comes along), and I'd like the amplifier to be a part of the package (since this is essential for the 5.1 system right?).
I have a 360 and PS3 and would like these to be connected to the speakers, so how would this be done / can it be done easily? I really don't have much of a clue about this as my family has only ever used speakers that come integrated into the TV. What would be some good brands to look out for, and what would be some to steer away from (Brands around here are Sony, Pioneer, Yamaha mainly)?
I was also looking at those new soundbar things but I don't really have the space for one (the LCD TV isn't wall mounted).
If possible I'd like the speaker set to be a fairly new model, not too keen on runout stuff as it tends to have less of a warranty.

 

[TB]

Recently we've had both ends of the spectrum covered by GTP users.

NoxNoctis Umbra wants everything in one box. You can read about that here.

Beerz was interested in buying everything seperate. Read here.

I recommend reading through both of those threads and getting a better idea of which route suits you/your family better. Personally, I prefer seperate components.

The big thing to look for (and the final product decided on in both threads have it) is HDMI inputs/output. If it has those, up to 7.1 surround connection is one $8USD cable.

As a point of reference, at least for me, get a local price for an Onkyo TXSR505 or TXSR605. Both of those would serve you quite well if you're planning on going the separates route.

Good luck and happy hunting. :tup:

 

[superwally]

Harman Kardon offers great deals on new and refurb items (with warrantee) on ebay. I picked up a non-HDMI AVR 340 for less than $200 USD!

Your PS3 has an optical output as well as the HDMI for 5.1 and up sound, this is the output I use-my TV is 1080i without HDMI, so I have to run component cables for that anyway.

 

[Vasco]

Thanks for the advice guys. So Onkyo is also a good brand soundwise?

 

[Scaff]

Thanks for the advice guys. So Onkyo is also a good brand soundwise?

Currently the market leaders for amps up to the £1000 price point.

You will not go wrong with a Onkyo at all.

However I would check around as in the US/UK and Japan (I don't know about Australia) they are about to replace the entry to mid level models and some bargains may be had over the next few months (in particular the 505 and 605 are changing).

Info

http://whathifi.com/home-cinema/arc...08-range-of-home-cinema-receivers-in-may.aspx

http://whathifi.com/home-cinema/archive/2008/04/17/news-new-budget-receivers-arrive-from-onkyo.aspx


Regards

Scaff

 

[matski]

The Onkyos selling point is the amount of features it has for it's price. From a sound quality point of view the difference is going to come from your speakers. You are a lot less likely to notice differences between the amps if you are using a 5.1 sub/sat package, than if you're using floorstanders or even just bookshelf sized speakers.

If though you are concerned about "musical" quality then you could look at something from the Denon AVR range, it has the slight edge IMO.

 

[Scaff]

The Onkyos selling point is the amount of features it has for it's price. From a sound quality point of view the difference is going to come from your speakers. You are a lot less likely to notice differences between the amps if you are using a 5.1 sub/sat package, than if you're using floorstanders or even just bookshelf sized speakers.

If though you are concerned about "musical" quality then you could look at something from the Denon AVR range, it has the slight edge IMO.

Whiel I would to a certain extent agree on your point on the difference you will hear with a sub/sat vs. bookshelf/floorstand (but that still depends on the sub/sat package in question), I don't agree on the Onkyo's.

While the general public have picked up on the features you get for the price side of things, the Oknyo range has also been excellently recieved for the quality of sound they deliver. Not just from the 'mainstream' AV press either, one of the UK's most critical Home Cinema magazines (for whom sound quality is a number one factor) rate the Onkyo 875 as the best Sub £1,000 amp, with the 605 getting a runner's-up spot.



Once you get above that £1,000 limit is when the Denon (and Yamaha) range start to come into play, and yes in this field they are by far away the class leaders. I would love a Denon AVP-A1HD/POA-A1HD combo, but at 85kgs+ and £10,000 is probably more than my wife would allow.

One area I would have to totally disagree with you on (depending on exactly how you have used the term) is that an AV system should be bought for its "musical" quality. Film soundtracks and audio CDs are mastered in very different ways and what suits one will very rarely suit the other. Its why I have always had a seperate Hi-Fi set-up for music and my Home Cinema for films; which allows the best combo of hardware (that I can currently afford) for each job. Of course if you are using the term "musical" in a more general way then ignore the above.



Regards

Scaff

 

[matski]

Whiel I would to a certain extent agree on your point on the difference you will hear with a sub/sat vs. bookshelf/floorstand (but that still depends on the sub/sat package in question), I don't agree on the Onkyo's.

While the general public have picked up on the features you get for the price side of things, the Oknyo range has also been excellently recieved for the quality of sound they deliver. Not just from the 'mainstream' AV press either, one of the UK's most critical Home Cinema magazines (for whom sound quality is a number one factor) rate the Onkyo 875 as the best Sub £1,000 amp, with the 605 getting a runner's-up spot.



Once you get above that £1,000 limit is when the Denon (and Yamaha) range start to come into play, and yes in this field they are by far away the class leaders. I would love a Denon AVP-A1HD/POA-A1HD combo, but at 85kgs+ and £10,000 is probably more than my wife would allow.

One area I would have to totally disagree with you on (depending on exactly how you have used the term) is that an AV system should be bought for its "musical" quality. Film soundtracks and audio CDs are mastered in very different ways and what suits one will very rarely suit the other. Its why I have always had a seperate Hi-Fi set-up for music and my Home Cinema for films; which allows the best combo of hardware (that I can currently afford) for each job. Of course if you are using the term "musical" in a more general way then ignore the above.

Yeah, don't mis-understand me, I wasn't advocating the use of an AV amp for musical reproduction, but given that the brief was a 5.1 system with the question of sound quality brought up afterwards, thats why I made the recommendation of a Denon AV amp. I would assume (based on UK prices) that with his budget that the 875 is out of the question, IMO having heard most of the Yammy range, most of the Denon range, and some of the Onkyo, with various combinations of KEF KHT packs, Bose AM6's, B&W MT10 & MT30's... my overall verdict is that the difference between the sound quality in these products is fairly small when compared to just whacking in some B&W's or Monitor Audio's on the front channel, and having satelitte centre/rears. IMO that would give a bigger step forward in sound quality than choosing between the amps. Also traditionally I have found Denon amps to offer a smoother and fuller sound than their competition, which in terms of Yamaha and Onkyo are both a little 'harsh' in comparison. Although this does come down to personal taste and what music you listen to of course.

 

[Scaff]

Yeah, don't mis-understand me, I wasn't advocating the use of an AV amp for musical reproduction, but given that the brief was a 5.1 system with the question of sound quality brought up afterwards, thats why I made the recommendation of a Denon AV amp. I would assume (based on UK prices) that with his budget that the 875 is out of the question, IMO having heard most of the Yammy range, most of the Denon range, and some of the Onkyo, with various combinations of KEF KHT packs, Bose AM6's, B&W MT10 & MT30's... my overall verdict is that the difference between the sound quality in these products is fairly small when compared to just whacking in some B&W's or Monitor Audio's on the front channel, and having satelitte centre/rears. IMO that would give a bigger step forward in sound quality than choosing between the amps. Also traditionally I have found Denon amps to offer a smoother and fuller sound than their competition, which in terms of Yamaha and Onkyo are both a little 'harsh' in comparison. Although this does come down to personal taste and what music you listen to of course.

You raise very good points in terms of both matching speakers to amps (good pick on the speakers as well, I run Monitor Audio Radius' on my Home Cinema and B&W's on my Hi-Fi) and personal preference.

The biggest issue I have with Denon in this kind of price point (around £400) is that the Denon AVR-1907, doesn't sound significantly better than the Onkyo 605 (or arguably better at all) but is miles behind in terms of specifocation. The lack of HDMI input and therefore both 7.1 and HD audio is a major loss, particularly the latter as it removes the ability to run uncompressed PCM audio, DTS-MA or Dolby-HD from Blu-ray.
The new Denon AVR-1908 does add HDMI support for PCM (but not DTS-MA or Dolby-HD), but is £480 and has been described as "sonically, it’s not the most accomplished...".


The cheaper (£250) Denon AVR-1507, does allow 7.1 (wierd but true) but a number of reviews have described its sound as a little too soft, personally I would rate it below the Onkyo 505.


I've actually compared the Denon AVR-1907 and Onkyo 605 with an MA set-up, as I am looking to upgrade my own amp later this year, and I have to say that I found the Onkyo to offer the better sound of the two. The only reason I am holding back is that the 606 is due in the UK in the next few months and I want to see how that sounds. It should either mean a better amp for the same money or the old one at a better price, of course if Denon pull something out that is better in the mean time I would reconsider that, however at present I think that Onkyo has the better range of amps, that are better spec'ed, and with the right speakers just as good sounding as the Denon (at this price point anyway).


Regards

Scaff

 

[matski]

You raise very good points ... and with the right speakers just as good sounding as the Denon (at this price point anyway).

Indeed. Which takes me back to my first comment about the 605's biggest selling point being it's value for money. This is more of an observation than an opinion, I would say in the past few months I have sold as many 605's as I have all other AV amps put together!

As I say, it's all personal preference and priority really. I agree with you that two separate systems is the way to go in an ideal world, as a good AV system isn't necessarily a good audio system.

I too am keen to see/hear the 606, but I'm not expecting them to change the amplification in the box too much, more the spec of the techie gubbins.

 

[Scaff]

I too am keen to see/hear the 606, but I'm not expecting them to change the amplification in the box too much, more the spec of the techie gubbins.

One the whole they do seem to have left most of the amplification in place, but the new spec does look tempting...

The new SR606 won't cost a penny more than its predecessor and is equipped with the latest 192kHz DACs (digital-to-analogue converters) for all seven channels, advanced 32-bit processing and Onkyo's proprietary WRAT (Wide Range Amplifier Technology).

It delivers 7 x 140w power, has onboard decoding for Dolby Digital Plus, Dolby TrueHD, DTS-HD and DTS-HD Master Audio and has a Music Optimiser function for improving the sound quality of MP3 and AAC tracks.

HDMI video upscaling to 720p/1080i is included as standard, there are now four HDMI inputs and one HDMI output, and Onkyo has specified Faroudja's DCDi (Directional Correlational Deinterlacing) circuit designed to eliminate video artifacts.

The Audyssey 2EQ room distortion correction and set-up system is retained on the new model, but it has been further improved with the addition of Audyssey Dynamic EQ. The SR606 can also be biamped to further enhance sound quality.

Source - http://whathifi.com/home-cinema/arc...08-range-of-home-cinema-receivers-in-may.aspx

...and the new DAC processing side could well improve matter and its nice to see that they haven't ignored the HDMI video scaling side of things as well. The best bit of news however is that they are keeping the same price as well, they could quite easily have pushed the price up.

Regards

Scaff

 

[Casio]

Rather than create a new thread, this seems like a good place for it.

I am also now in the market for a 5.1 set. I've just been playing my PS3 through my TV. I got bored yesterday and connected my old Logitech X-540s to it to see the differences, which was amazing, even though it's not real 5.1 as it can only plug into the headphone jack, the difference, especially with the extra bass (or should I say, bass in general) was staggering, so now I'm looking for an actual 5.1 system. With the following requirements.

1. Budget of 500-600AUD, no this isn't much, but if a considerably more decent set-up can be had for slightly more then I may be swayed.

2. It will primarily be used for 75% PS3 gaming, and some 25% TV/Movies. Not really any music at all

3. My set-up at the moment is a 32" BRAVIA right on the end of my bed, with 2 speakers either side of the TV, and 2 behind me, one on the desk next to my bed head on the left, and the other actually sitting on my bed on the right. Due to this, I'd ideally like smaller speakers, though again can be swayed, and if the rears can be wall mounted behind my bed I'm happy to do that.

4. I am prepared to buy separate components, but realistically that is probably not in my budget.

5. Obviously since it will be connecting to my PS3, and a receiver with HDMI input and output is well out of my price range, it'll need an optical input. I think.

At the moment I'm currently looking at these two.

Sony HTDDW785

Pros: Matches the TV and Playstation, Speakers are quite small, has the auto calibrate thing which is probably just something that sounds cool to make idiots like me buy it. It's a SONY so it makes me feel cool too. Can be had for about 450$ shopping around.

​

Yamaha YHT185B/S

Pros: It all black and matches everything.

​

Thanks guys 👍

 

[TB]

In comparison to the DAVDZ150K (that is the systems that shows up in you link and is a piece of crap, IMO) the HTDDW785 looks much better. At least it has some inputs/outputs. The Z150K - not so much.

As far as the Yamaha goes, I didn't look at their site for more than a few minutes, but I came across the YHT-195 which has 2 HDMI in and 1 out along with YPAO (apparently their version of speaker calibration) and is still $599.

Between the 2, I say the Yamaha for the HDMI's, but you'll need to hunt down some and give them a listen to decide officially.

 

[Casio]

+Rep to TB 👍

I didn't see that YHT-195. And that is at the very, very, top scale of my price range. I may go track some down to see if they would be worth the extra 150$+ outlay over the Sony.

Is there really a whole lot of differance between HDMI and optical connections on such a basic (and cheap) 5.1 set-up?

EDIT: I forgot to add, that due to where I work I can get Z-5500s at cost price. Which is significantly cheaper again, but from reading a view articles I hear they aren't the greatest Home Theater pieces.

 

[TB]

+Rep to TB 👍

Don't jump the gun just yet. There's still plenty of time for me to screw up.

I didn't see that YHT-195. And that is at the very, very, top scale of my price range. I may go track some down to see if they would be worth the extra 150$+ outlay over the Sony.

The Sony HTDDW785 and the Yamaha YHT-195 are both $599, unless I'm missing something.

Is there really a whole lot of differance between HDMI and optical connections on such a basic (and cheap) 5.1 set-up?

The big advantage to HDMI is being able to run one cable for both audio and video. The big advantage to having a receiver that can handle HDMI switching is you can have everything go through the receiver and have one HDMI to the TV. If that's not a big deal for you, then don't worry about it. For me, I need it to be easy as my system is frequently used by my wife, my mom and my mother-in-law (all technophobes), hence why I bought my Logitech Harmony 880.

EDIT: I forgot to add, that due to where I work I can get Z-5500s at cost price. Which is significantly cheaper again, but from reading a view articles I hear they aren't the greatest Home Theater pieces.

I haven't looked into them much, but I'd guess that for computer speakers, they work pretty well. As HT speakers, there are always better.

 

[Casio]

The Sony HTDDW785 and the Yamaha YHT-195 are both $599, unless I'm missing something.

Sorry, I should have stated more clearly. The Sony Australia website likes to put insane markups on things. The HTDDW785 can be for as low as $460 online and probably haggling some stores. Whereas the YHT-195 seems to be $599 everywhere.

 

[Vasco]

Oh yeah I've been looking around and was thinking of getting the Yamaha RXV663B. It has support for the latest HD audio formats (so I am led to believe) and is just a bit over $1000 AUD. Would this be a good receiver? After I get that I'd just need to find a good set of speakers :|

 

[Scaff]

The big advantage to HDMI is being able to run one cable for both audio and video. The big advantage to having a receiver that can handle HDMI switching is you can have everything go through the receiver and have one HDMI to the TV. If that's not a big deal for you, then don't worry about it. For me, I need it to be easy as my system is frequently used by my wife, my mom and my mother-in-law (all technophobes), hence why I bought my Logitech Harmony 880.

Be careful on this one, not every HDMI capable amp handles both audio and video signals, a lot simply offer what is know as HDMI throughput, giving you only the video switching benefits. These amps do not handle audio signals via HDMI at all and would still need an optical or co-ax digital cable (optical in the case of the PS3) for the audio.

The YHT-195 is such an amp, as the tech sheet covers. So be aware while this does look like a good piece of kit and will allow you to easily upgrade the speakers in future (as it uses standard connections) and has a good range of inputs and outputs, it does not handle audio over HDMI. However to be fair to it you will struggle to find an amp that does at this kind of price point.

Regards

Scaff

 

[Casio]

Well I think I'm sold on the Yamaha YHT-195. I can get it for $490 which is only $40 more than the Sony system. But yes it will only switch through video, so if I'm right. I need to go:

PS3>HDMI>Amp>HDMI>TV for Video
And a seperate optical cable from both the PS3 and TV to amp.

Though I was offered a Kenwood system I haven't seen before for $450

 

[GT4 genius]

I was wondering which one of these would be best for me, I have a PS3 and a Panasonic HD TV, I dont know much about this stuff either so I need help, these are the only 2 near me which are at my budget and seem good to me there both for €249:
Panansonic:
http://www.comet.co.uk/shopcomet/product/417157/PANASONIC-SC-PT450EB-K/tab/specification

Sony:
http://www.sony.ie/view/ShowProduct...ound+Kit+&+DVD+Player#pageType=TechnicalSpecs

Thanks for your help.

 

[TB]

To have 5.1 surround out of the PS3, the receiver needs to have, at the very least, a fiber optic input. Neither of the ones you posted do, so I strongly suggest you look elsewhere. I can't find a price, but it looks like the Sony HT-SS1100 might fit the bill, but I'm going to guess that it'll run a bit more than the other 2 you found. It might come in a hair cheaper than normal as it doesn't included a DVD player, but that's not an issue as you have the PS3 for that anyway. Edit: If I did it correctly, it looks like the SS1100 clocks in at just under 300 euro, but don't hold me to that.

It also looks like the HT-SS500 has a single fiber optic input so that one should work as well.

Happy hunting!

 

[GT4 genius]

Oh right. So if I got one of them the PS3 wouldnt use any of the speakers or would it just use 2 of them, I thought I could just plug the PS3 into the TV with the HDMI cable and plug the system into the back of the TV and then have full 5.1, no, is that just pure stupidity? But with the dvd player included it would use all 5 without a need for the fibre optic? Right, now I have to try and find one of those in the small town. I would like the PS3 to be compatable with it but I usually use the PS3 with a smaller CRT TV in a different room, so I think this is going to come down to price.

 

[Scaff]

Oh right. So if I got one of them the PS3 wouldnt use any of the speakers or would it just use 2 of them, I thought I could just plug the PS3 into the TV with the HDMI cable and plug the system into the back of the TV and then have full 5.1, no, is that just pure stupidity? But with the dvd player included it would use all 5 without a need for the fibre optic? Right, now I have to try and find one of those in the small town. I would like the PS3 to be compatable with it but I usually use the PS3 with a smaller CRT TV in a different room, so I think this is going to come down to price.

Have a read of the following two articles before buying anything...

Home Cinema - The Basics

Home Cinema - Single Box vs Separates

....five pages, so not much to read and it should help. After all spending money when you don't know exactly what you are buying is a sure way to end up disappointed.

However, for your question about how it all fits together. With Home Cinema your TV basically just becomes a big monitor, so you PS3/DVD Player/Sky Box, etc would send the picture to the TV just as they do now. However all these same bits of kit would also send the audio signal (using a different lead) to the amp/receiver of the home cinema, this would then send the sound to the various speakers.

Now you can get some Home Cinema that sends both the picture and sound signals to the Home Cinema amp/receiver, which then splits the picture (and sends that to the TV) and the sound (and sends that to the speakers), but these are outside the price range you are going to be looking at.

Ideally you are looking for a system that will allow you to connect as many pieces of kit as possible.

The following are available in Ireland and may be worth a look...

Yamaha NSP110 - 5.1 speaker kit - 115 Euros

Pioneer VSX817 7.1 Silver AV Receiver - 150 Euros

Its a little outside your indicated budget and you would need to get speaker cable and interconnects, but it will beat the single box kits in terms of sound, flexibility and the ability to upgrade in the future.

Regards

Scaff

 

[GT4 genius]

Thanks for those links Scaff, didnt expect anyone to find an Irish store with what I need thanks a lot. I might leave this awhile longer so as to find exactly what I want/need at as cheap a price as I can find, but thanks again you've really helped me out of the dark. 👍

 

[Scaff]

No problem at all.

I'm more than happy to recomened Richer Sounds stores as well, if they are anything like the UK ones then they will always do all they can to help, will not try and sell you stuff you don't need and are generally passionate about what they sell.

Obviously I can't speak for all the stores, but all the ones I have ever dealt with have been great.

I also agree its worthwhile waiting until you know exactly what you want and getting the budget together, just rushing in and getting something on a whim will almost always result in you buying something you don't need aand/or like in the end.

The following two site can also help out with a lot of advice and reviews as well..

What Hi-fi

Home Cinema Choice

What Hi-fi are well know and generally well respected, dealing mainly with the entry to medium level kit; Home Cinema Choice cover everything from entry level right the way to the far end of the market (I'm talking £10k+ receivers here) but the reviews are very detailed and the site has a lot of .pdf downloads for help and advice.

As always, if you have any questions, just ask.

Regards

Scaff

 

[Casio]

Rather than create a new thread, this seems like a good place for it.

I am also now in the market for a 5.1 set. I've just been playing my PS3 through my TV...

And 18months later. I finally got around to buying one

Sony HTDDWG800. Which originally was $899, was on sale during stocktake for $649, and then once I gave the salesman some dog training advice walked out of the store only $498 poorer. Not a bad deal I say

Has more than enough inputs for what I need,

Got the PS3 hooked up through HDMI then HDMI through TV and bam, best COD4 session I ever had last night*, it's amazing the difference it makes, hearing the little bullets bouncing around behind you, even a game of Fifa gives that extra level of immersion, it's like you're sitting in the middle of the stadium.

The speakers are all of a very good quality, and are actually made from wood, unlike many HTIB products. Mine are the same as this but in black wood.

Once I get everything placed where I want it, and optical cable arrives in the mail (For TV > Amp), I'll be even happier. 👍 Fortunately I also don't have to deal with another remote, as Bravia Sync allows me to control the TV with Amp's remote. Now if I had a Slim PS3 too....

I'd definitely have to recommend this to anyone who could get this near the price I got it.


*Tonight will be an even better session, as I only realised this morning that I had my sub turned off the whole time.....d'oh.

 

[Vasco]

Damn that setup looks pretty freakin' sweet, is that amp compatible with the new HD audio formats?

 

[MatskiMonk]

No problem at all.

I'm more than happy to recomened Richer Sounds stores as well, if they are anything like the UK ones then they will always do all they can to help, will not try and sell you stuff you don't need and are generally passionate about what they sell.

Personally I wouldn't buy anything from Richer Sounds (at all!) but seriously, try to steer clear of anything they sell that you don't seem to find in other shops.

 

[Casio]

Damn that setup looks pretty freakin' sweet, is that amp compatible with the new HD audio formats?

As far as I can work out, yes. It doesn't do onboard decoding but it does LPCM over HDMI, so if you've got a PS3 then it can do it. I could be completely wrong though, someone here definitely knows more about this than me.

http://www.sony.com.au/product/ht-ddwg800/sku/ht-ddwg800_mau1

 

[Casio]

Damn that setup looks pretty freakin' sweet, is that amp compatible with the new HD audio formats?

Now even sweeter.

I got a set of these speaker stands from Selby Acoustics. Only $39 a pair. Though I picked them up from the store, they also ship around Australia for $12-$15 which is pretty reasonable. They make a huge difference to the look and I'm pretty happy with them. $78 for 4, is better then the $170 for 2 that I was going to order off the Sony website.

I'll probably get a TV/AV stand from them too in a couple of weeks so I can get the PS3 off the floor. As at the moment the lack of room means I needed to cut a piece of chipboard and just put the PS3 on it.

Now, I've got to refrain myself from getting a bigger TV to complete the make over.