Looking to buy a used Audi RS6. (Need advice)

[paskowitz]

Ok well I am not looking to buy a used 2003 Audi RS6 but my father is. I found one for (still can't get over it) $23,500. The car has about 80,000 miles and looks like it is in great condition. (No dents or scrapes and leather has very few cracks or wrinkles) But my favorite thing is that this is such a sleeper car. If a cop saw one he would think it is just some Euro sedan. Again it looks like it is in good condition. I worry because Audi does not have a great track record for reliability. My father had a 2002 A4 and 3rd gear became a meat grinder after 50k miles. With a 450hp car with a 5 speed tiptronic auto, one has to wonder in what state is the tranny or what state it will be in a couple of months. So what do you guys think? Worth a look or more trouble than its worth?

I heard that the 2003 S8 has bad tranny problems so I think he is going to avoid that (even though it is soooo awesome in the movie Ronin). He was looking at an M5 and M3 but none of those have AWD and in upstate NY that is a must. An Evo or STi is too toy go-kart looking. Any other good suggestions for a 300hp+ (or just fast), AWD car under 30k? (Yeah, its a tough one)

 

[Hyper-Dan]

http://www.audizine.com/forum/

http://www.rs246.com/

👍

 

[paskowitz]

Thanks for the links. Still too lazy to go through everything right now. If anyone has anything else, shoot.

 

[Bram Turismo]

Is he going to get the automatic tranny?

If so, you might want to be nice on the throttle... A friend of my dad has just sold his Audi A6 twin-turbo, and the new owner took it to Germany to have some "fun" on the freeways. He treated the car like dirt, pushing the car and the tranny to its limits until the whole tranny came apart. And that's just an A6 twin-turbo. Imagine the costs for replacing a tranny on an RS6...

If you're already looking at an Audi, and the tranny looks doubtful, step away from it, far away. Audi and reliable trannies doesn't seem to go too well together. It might be this or the drivers that treat the cars badly, or it might just be that a powerful engine doesn't go along with a triptronic-duo-thing-whatever-tranny...

 

[1X83Z]

Is he going to get the automatic tranny?

To my knowledge, there has never been a manual RS6.

I find the comments about Audi transmissions really interesting. Of course, I have an Audi, and occasionally I'll visit Audi forums, but I had never heard such general negativity. For the record, my car is now seven years old and has around 89,000 miles on it, and the transmission hasn't given me any problems. In fact, in the year and a half I've owned the car, the car itself has given me no problems.

$23k is well under market for the RS6 so I'd make sure to get a pre-purchase inspection and perform due dilligence before buying it.

 

[Bram Turismo]

For the record, my car is now seven years old and has around 89,000 miles on it, and the transmission hasn't given me any problems. In fact, in the year and a half I've owned the car, the car itself has given me no problems.

At 89,000 miles, I'd expect my car to at least run that distance without any problems... But you're not running a powerful car exactly, so comparing your car (which is manual I suppose?) is not very accurate by comparing it to a much more powerful car with an automatic transmission.

I find the comments about Audi transmissions really interesting. Of course, I have an Audi, and occasionally I'll visit Audi forums, but I had never heard such general negativity.

Whether you were pointing deliberately at me now, I don't know. If my post came over as "negativity only", my apologies. I was only suggesting that his dad might be careful with the tranny. An automatic tranny is always the most vulnerable part in a car that goes like stink, so driving the car with a heavy foot might not be the best solution to take care of the car. As you said, the price is indeed rather cheap, and hence why I'm so suspicious towards the tranny.


*EDIT*

Searched some forums, and it seems that the transmission is causing more problems with the A6 2.5 and 2.7T Quattro, than with the RS6 (of which I haven't found any serious issues on). Seems I was wrong comparing the A6 and RS6 transmissions, sorry for that

 

[Quattro20v]

Need advice? For $23,500?

BUY IT! 👍

 

[YSSMAN]

Generally speaking, its a Volkswagen, so you've gotta expect the normal stuff. Outrageously expensive repair bills when things break (trust me, they will) and stupidly high insurance rates. Of course, if you can afford it, by all means... But as I tell everyone who looks at a VW or Audi, know what you're getting into.

As far as reliability problems that have come across to dealers, it looks like its the same problem that most turbo VWs have; Problems with oil. Specifically worn seals and leaking.

Although, there is just one problem...

 

[ND4SPD]

I thought he ruled out M5 because of the lack of AWD?

 

[Bones Brigade]

These will be tough (impossible?) to find in good shape for under 30k:

BMW 335xi (E46 330xi would be good price but not as fast)
BMW 535xi

These will be easy:

Subaru Legacy GT
Mazdaspeed 6
Volvo S40 T5 AWD (or V50 if you want a wagon)
Infiniti G35x
Volvo S60 R

 

[YSSMAN]

I thought he ruled out M5 because of the lack of AWD?

Whoops... Missed that part!

Well, in that case, I think your options change dramatically. Audi and Mercedes had their own high-power AWD models out at the time, but you're going to get spotty reliability at best with the Merc models.

VW Passat W8

As the smaller sibling to the A6-based cars, the W8 Passat is going to pack a fair bit of punch for quite a bit less money. You can pick up a late-model version with a stick for well under $20K these days, but it isn't going to win a bunch of awards for performance overall. It had to stay below the RS4 at the time, but nevertheless, its a pretty solid car for the price... May be worth a look.

Mazda Mazdaspeed6

Give or take, you're 25 BHP short of your 300 BHP mark. Nevertheless, they seemed to be a pretty well-reviewed car at the time, and it looks like the used car market has been pretty kind as well. According to Edmunds, you can get a 2006 model for less than $20K these days, which seems like a cracking good deal that will still have a warranty (and presumably few miles as well). May be worth a look...

Subaru Legacy 2.5GT spec.B

Give or take, its similar to the Mazda, just a little more refined, a little less power. But, just like before, you can get them used for pretty cheap (assuming you can find one), which is a major bonus.

 

[Azuremen]

I would strongly consider something besides the Audi. Reliablity and repair bills are an issue with Volkswagen and Audi products.

Out of the alternative suggestions, the Volvo S40 R and the Legacy GT appeal to me the most.

As a side note, my brother has an 03 A6 with the 2.7TT and I already see a little smoking when he gets on the throttle, and it only has about 70k miles.

Of course, I have an Audi, and occasionally I'll visit Audi forums, but I had never heard such general negativity.

You never deal with the people that work on cars and see what comes into shops all the time. Most mechanics I know will give you a good, long rant on why VAG products are rubbish why you should never buy one, ever. And why they hate to work on them, and so on. 89,000 miles is nothing to brag about in the reliability world.

 

[YSSMAN]

Take it from someone who has owned two Volkswagens himself, had more than four in the family, not to mention a pretty good friend who owns an independent VW/Audi sales and repair shop... They are anything but reliable.

But the thing is, if you enjoy it for what it is, and have the financial means to pay for it when things break, you're going to be as happy as a clam. My last VW started nickel and diming me, and with my lower level of income, it came time to dump it... But it eventually just blew out on me. Some people can take it, others cannot.

Personally speaking, I only trust MY2003+ Volkswagens and Audis, and the further you get away from that model year, generally speaking the more reliable it is going to be. But we're not talking about drastic changes from year to year, its more or less the elimination of the smaller and smaller problems. You're still going to have problematic electronics and switchgear (check the windows!), the usual oil-consumption on turbo models, and the always looming specter of transmission problems.

Still, its hit an miss. Nothing is ever an absolute certain with a VW other than it being expensive.

 

[paskowitz]

Ok folks thanks for the advice. FYI... My dad is not the normal dad. He thinks an Aston Martin DB9 is slow. He runs away from cops. Goes like 90 on the Taconic State Parkway (the twisty parts). He owned one of the first Datsun 240z (tuned it to 200hp) and was going to buy a Mazda RX7 R1 but realized that my brother would wreck it (he would have).

He owns a Legacy GT wagon (albeit older) as his commuter car. Mazdaspeed 6 is way too slow and unresponsive for his likes (we test drove it). Also since the A4 was way too small, the car has to be big (I am 6'3'', he is 6', mom is too short to matter). So that means that anything smaller than a Legacy GT is not going to cut it (no Passats, S40, etc). +1 for the G35x. I never thought of that car.

The thing with his old (now dead) A4 was just the tranny. Surprisingly nothing else went wrong with it. Anyways I think the RS6 should be a different beast because it is a higher end model and should have higher quality parts.

As ND4SPD will attest the normal crown vic is not really a great car but the police interceptor version is amazing (due to all the upgrades). That car is built like a tank. The fluid lines (tranny/cooling I think) are covered in the same material they use in the Space Shuttle's cooling lines. I hope the RS6 follows this logic.

If my dad had the money he would get the 335xi but things aren't the way they used to be. Anyways thanks for all the suggestions so far, if ya got more keep em coming.

 

[Bones Brigade]

the G35 isn't any faster than the Mazda. Legacy GT/G35/MS6 is about as fast as you can get for under 30grand. I suppose the MS6 probably has a bit of turbo lag though. Maybe he should just update his Subie.

 

[paskowitz]

The subie is tired with 160,000+ miles and upgrades would not do it much good. Hence the search for a new car. I have heard good things about the G35/6/7. If my dad could be reassured that the RS6 is not going to explode after 10,000 miles or cost $10,000 to fix then I think he wold be sold but one has to worry if a car like that is going to last.

 

[1X83Z]

You never deal with the people that work on cars and see what comes into shops all the time. Most mechanics I know will give you a good, long rant on why VAG products are rubbish why you should never buy one, ever. And why they hate to work on them, and so on. 89,000 miles is nothing to brag about in the reliability world.

Ouch! Azuremen strikes again. Clearly I have done something to anger him.

But how's this for reliability?

I bought the car 5/07 with 45,000 miles. It's now 1/09 - 20 months later - and I have 89,000 miles. 2,200 miles a month = >26k miles a year. Meaning from '01 to '07 (six yrs) the car did 45k, and then in the next 20 months, it did another 45k. You'd think that would **** up a car. But alas - except for the very first service after I bought it (timing belt) the car has not been in the shop for a period longer than I could wait for it in the service lounge. Consider that! Doubling the mileage in a third of the time and it hasn't been in service for more than three hours.

The problem is bigger than that though. I flog the car like there's no tomorrow. It runs up and down to redline on a daily basis, all the time; I exercise its handling, brake hard, accelerate hard, pull the handbrake (rarely), and generally do everything that someone with the mind of a 12-year-old would do with a car. I've done THREE cross-country trips and currently it's sitting in a parking garage in the middle of winter where it has sat for two weeks and will sit for another two. It did that last year, too. And let's not forget hours spent in stop-and-go traffic car spotting, including (during 40 Cars in 40 Hours weekend) literally 20 hours in a 3-days span and nearly seven hours without being shut off.

89k or not... the record is ridiculous. I want an Infiniti for my next car but I will be hard-pressed to not get an S4, based simply on the performance this car has offered.

I'm a firm believer in ignoring anecdotal evidence, though, so I don't think any of this applies to the RS6.

 

[McLaren]

As ND4SPD will attest the normal crown vic is not really a great car but the police interceptor version is amazing (due to all the upgrades). That car is built like a tank. The fluid lines (tranny/cooling I think) are covered in the same material they use in the Space Shuttle's cooling lines. I hope the RS6 follows this logic.

The difference between the 2 though, is that Interceptor's were made to run very long & without issues because they were police vehicles. Police vehicles need to keep out on the road as repair costs become a major pain in the district's finances.

 

[Hugo Boss]

The thing with his old (now dead) A4 was just the tranny. Surprisingly nothing else went wrong with it. Anyways I think the RS6 should be a different beast because it is a higher end model and should have higher quality parts.

Was it an A4 with multitronic transmission? Or if you don't know, was it a FWD? Those transmissions are known for giving troubles indeed.

Tiptronic transmissions on Quattro's are bullitproof, given you treat the car well and don't floor the throttle when the machinery isn't up to temperature yet.
I know of a C5 RS6, chipped to 520 bhp, with over 125.000 miles and it never had any transmission problems. Original turbo's as well. Not bad huh? Oh yeah, it regularly does 150+ mph on the Autobahn

Only problems were a leaking intercooler and a problem with the DRC dampers (known problem on RS models, expensive joke).

Downside of the car: maintenance costs. Not an issue for the real car enthousiast who knows what to expect when he buys such a car, but it's a reason why a lot of those cars are put up for sale (atleast in Europe). This means it can be hard finding a proper example and a pre-purchase inspection is a must.

 

[Bones Brigade]

The subie is tired with 160,000+ miles and upgrades would not do it much good. Hence the search for a new car. I have heard good things about the G35/6/7. If my dad could be reassured that the RS6 is not going to explode after 10,000 miles or cost $10,000 to fix then I think he wold be sold but one has to worry if a car like that is going to last.

i meant upgrade to the new one of the same.

 

[paskowitz]

Thank you Hugo Boss. Nice to know that fact. The more opinions for each side the better.

The only reason he does not want another Subaru is that we have owned only Subarus since 1996 (the one A4 1.8t being the only exception). The new Legacy GTs are expensive and they do not make the Legacy GT wagon any more which has the most room. The sedan is kinda cramped.

BTW the A4 was a proper manual. And no, my dad knows how to shift and he did not ruin it by grinding the gears. They just went bad.

It sucks that Acura is retarded and does not understand the concept of rear or all wheel drive because minus that fact the Acura TL is a great car. What about last gen (2005 and bellow) BMW 3 series with AWD. Is the old gen 330xi a good sports sedan? My dad hates the look of the current gen.

Thanks for all the replies so far.

 

[McLaren]

It sucks that Acura is retarded and does not understand the concept of rear or all wheel drive because minus that fact the Acura TL is a great car. What about last gen (2005 and bellow) BMW 3 series with AWD. Is the old gen 330xi a good sports sedan? My dad hates the look of the current gen.

Thanks for all the replies so far.

Even if it doesn't have AWD in its previous gen's., FWD isn't a terrible option in heavy weather. And if you can get past its looks, the new SH-AWD TL is a beast. Delivers a lot of power pretty quick.

 

[YSSMAN]

If my dad could be reassured that the RS6 is not going to explode after 10,000 miles or cost $10,000 to fix then I think he wold be sold but one has to worry if a car like that is going to last.

I don't know if explosions are in line by 100K on an RS6, but you're at the window on most VWs where things are going to have to be replaced. Maybe not right away, but it will be a slow progression toward the eventual replacement of all the basic stuff, not to mention the trivial pieces that usually break down and need replacement by then.

Something I'd suggest early on?

Check and see what the labor rates are at your local Audi dealer. I doubt you'd be doing any of the work yourself in your driveway, so it would be a good thing to know. Seems like my VW dealer charged $70 or $75 an hour, I can't recall what it used to be for the Audi one before it moved. So, even with a basic part change, you're looking at a fairly significant bill. Even then, your Audi dealer may be able to shed some light on the repair history of the car as well. See what kind of services would be required at the 90K, 100K, and 120K intervals and go from there.

Either way, like I said, VWs are hit and miss, it doesn't matter what badge is on the hood. Do some solid research and I'm sure you can wind up with a very good car.

Too bad we're not further into the future. The Saab Turbo X would be just about perfect.

 

[paskowitz]

You're right that Saab would be good. When are they bringing that to the US? $? The RS6 I found is through a private seller. He will have to talk to the dealer. He can't go to the one he bought the old A4 from because well they hate us... a lot (the car was under warranty and they did not want to service it so we did not pay the overdue millage. In the end we won). The only other one is about 40 minutes away in CT. Well we will have to wait and see.

 

[Nightmage82]

personally i think the rs6 AVANT is one of the most beautiful 'family' cars ever made...

good on you! (or ur dad lol)

 

[YSSMAN]

You're right that Saab would be good. When are they bringing that to the US? $?

I've yet to see one on the roads, but they went on sale over the summer I think. Saab USA says the car starts at $42K, and only a handful make it here every year. Still, a 280 BHP turbocharged V6 and their trick AWD system makes for an interesting performance sedan.

 

[paskowitz]

42K is out of the ball park. At that rate my Dad would get a used RX7 or Lotus Exige maybe even an NSX. Thats one expensive Saab. When we actually had money we had a bright gold Saab 9-5. Great car.

 

[YSSMAN]

I agree that $42K is pretty high on a 9-3, especially when the Epsilon chassis its running is about to be replaced. My guess is that they wanted to go out with a bang, and knowing how many Saabophiles there are out there, they'll sell every single one. My preferred version, the 2.0T SportCombi with XWD will run about $37K. Problem is, you're nearly in CTS territory there, and I'd have the Caddy instead.

Just as a question, does it have to be AWD? Your price range includes a lot of genuinely awesome sedans and wagons, brand new, that really are worth a look if you can. Granted, you can pick up a Ford Fusion with V6 and AWD smack dab in that price range, but it would likely be best to wait for the beyond-excellent 2010 model. Same with the Mazda 6, which continues to surprise me in its newest generation.

 

[paskowitz]

The thing with AWD is that we live in the Hudson Valley region of NY and we like to go visit upstate NY, Vermont and Mass. for skiing (White Face, Stow, Jiminy Peak, Killington etc). Driving in the snow with a RWD car is a challenge, even for my dad. FWD is ok in bad weather but it sucks for performance. AWD is just ideal for our lifestyle. Trust me if we could afford the current 335xi, that is what he would get but that is out of reach right now and probably for a long time. I really wish the new MAzda 6 came in AWD because that is looking to be a fine car. The new Ford Fusion Sport with AWD is probably really slow but could at least could be a decent car.

Lol, if the RS6 was Japanese we would have bought it yesterday.

 

[Bram Turismo]

When we actually had money

And your dad wants an RS6?