Low-quality plastics. What?

[BKGlover]

Now, I know what low-quality stuff is, my pleather furniture for example, but this has been bugging me. I hear it when almost anyone worthwhile in the car world talk about US SUVs and cheap compacts. I've sat in luxury cars before, and I honestly can't figure out what the difference is between plastics. Are they pulling it out of their asses, or is there a legit difference?

 

[Slash]

Now, I know what low-quality stuff is, my pleather furniture for example, but this has been bugging me. I hear it when almost anyone worthwhile in the car world talk about US SUVs and cheap compacts. I've sat in luxury cars before, and I honestly can't figure out what the difference is between plastics. Are they pulling it out of their asses, or is there a legit difference?

At least for me, when they say cheap they don't mean crap quality of the plastic itself, they mean the design and overall quality of the car is crap. The plastics may be physically the same but shape and design can alter how people view things. Sometimes everything being made of plastic can make things seem cheap because it isn't as costly to produce as something made of a different material, such a steel. However plastic seems to be safer in modern cars due to better safety standards.

 

[BKGlover]

At least for me, when they say cheap they don't mean crap quality of the plastic itself, they mean the design and overall quality of the car is crap. The plastics may be physically the same but shape and design can alter how people view things. Sometimes everything being made of plastic can make things seem cheap because it isn't as costly to produce as something made of a different material, such a steel. However plastic seems to be safer in modern cars due to better safety standards.

Like the bump-covered surfaces that were common on everything? Hmm, that makes sense.

 

[Bopop4]

Large tolerances in things give it a general "cheap" feel.

Like the door handles on a Silverado.

 

[Tornado]

S10 circa 1990.

S10 circa 1995.

S10 circa 2000.

Here's a Colorado.

I've driven one of each of those. Except for the 1995 version, one of each of those quite extensively. Design tolerances have gotten much better over the years as American manufacturers have targeted the appearance of quality (look at the panel gaps on all of the S10s, especially the 2000. You could drop a quarter in them).

But actual material quality around 2000 or so marked a dramatic downturn for the Big Three as cost cutting became the name of the game like never before (and Chrysler got hammered HARD over it. Compare the original Sebring to the first Daimler one, then to the one that just went out of production), and while they were acceptable before, they were hardly fantastic. Whereas before soft-touch (albeit ill-fitting and chintzy looking) plastic or that velour-ish inserts would have been used on panels, they were replaced with brittle feeling plastic that seems like it could crack like vinyl. Before everything would be a drab dark color that nonetheless would hold up for as long as you owned the car maybe splashed with rather obviously fake wood, now things are covered with obviously fake chrome that wears off (or breaks) and high contrast greys which look terrible. And almost every domestic car suffered from the same thing, no matter the price bracket. Even the material put into the seats feels worse. It wasn't until 2008 or so that they started trying to get out of the hole.






That's to say nothing of the parts sharing, where parts in expensive cars are very obviously taken out of the economy cars (most usually in GM cars).

 

[hawkeye122]

The only time I've ever felt a TRUE difference is when I step out of my Camry and into my Grandparent's Aveo. Everything just feels, bleh. Like its about to break, or not well designed, or brittle, or makes a strange feeling like it's rubbing too much when you turn it..

Whereas in the Camry, even being 7 years older, everything just feels... Together. The buttons make a precise "Click" noise, then knobs dont feel like they're rubbing, they just turn and click as you would think. The dashboard, when pressed on, feels more like a foam than a hard plastic. The shifter glides decently well into its spot. The seats feel more comfortable. Less firm, yet still more supportive. The door panels make less noise when you tap them with your finger.

It's very strange, and I thought it was crap too until I actually noticed it. My Mate's Mum's CTS feels kinda the same way, but less so. The seats are a bit nicer (Like one would hope, It's a freaking Cadillac). But the door panels, and handles, and wood all feel... wrong. The knobs on the vents break easily, as I would have expected whilst playing with them prior to their breakage.

A Ford Explorer we once had also had similar faults.
That isn't to say these cars are bad for what they're meant to do. The Explorer had a ton of space, and 4 wheel drive (Sometimes). The Cadillac was reasonably comfortable, and had a decent amount of power for the V6. The Aveo is good if you want a cheap car(But absolutely trash in every other respect).

It's just the little things. And that's why I'd have a 3 series over a CTS. The interior just feels... better.


True story.

 

[homeforsummer]

There are a few sides to this.

One is that the term "cheap plastics" is a fallacy, as most in-car plastics used for dashboards and the like actually cost pretty similar amounts whether the stuff looks and feels awful or whether it's all touchy-feely.

As far as "low quality" plastics go, there are several sides to it.

One is the feel of the material. I've never been big on this one myself - I tend to prioritize the bits in the car I actually touch, like the steering wheel, shifter, handbrake lever and so-on. The feel of the top of the dashboard doesn't really matter to me as I never touch it. But if you do, "high quality" plastics tend to have a nice texture, be a little squashy, feel solid etc. "Low quality" plastics will feel hard, scratchy, make a hollow noise if you knock them etc. Think of it like the difference between truffle-filled Belgian chocolates and a cheap Easter egg.

The next is how the material looks. Unless you're going for a gloss effect, shiny plastics tend to look "lower quality" than one with a matte finish, or a texture.

After that, it's about how it's been screwed together. This, for me, is probably most important, and the reason I don't really care about touchy-feeliness. Japanese cars from the 80s and 90s tended to use fairly hard and nasty plastics to touch, but were screwed together brilliantly. The absolute cheapest of modern cars has more soft-touch plastics and textured surfaces than say, a 1990s Camry, but the Camry feels like it'll last a million years. A car that feels like it's about to disintegrate can't be considered high quality regardless of how squishy the plastics are.

Add all those factors together, and it's why people say modern Audi interiors are so good (soft-touch, squishy, textured and well put-together), and say, a 1990s GM product is so goppingly awful (as hollow as a coconut, hard, scratchy, usually an unappealing shade of grey, screwed together with the precision of a stampeding elephant).

 

[hawkeye122]

Car writer gives THE explanation.

Awesome. We can all go home now.

 

[oopssorryy]

Awesome. We can all go home now.

Just when i was getting the drinks out *sigh*

 

[SVT Cobra GT]

The quality of dashboard plastics really hit home for me when my dad brought home the '01 Bullitt Mustang. The plastics were terribly grey and felt out of date when we bought it (it was 3 years old at the time).

At the time our family car was a Lexus IS200 which was much better quality. But then when my dad was given a 2003 VW Passat as a company car, that was in a different league.

Now our plastics range from a 2010 VW Passat to a 2001 SVT Lightning to a 1983 Ford Capri. I'd almost go as far as saying that the Capri plastics are nearly as aesthetically pleasing as the Lightning's.

 

[eight6er]

I think it must be mostly subjective, I think VW audi have cheap nasty plastics, really hard and rough texture. But Ford are among the worst I've experienced, it sounds so hollow and breaks so easily because it's too thin and hard, this is what I imagine when people talk about american cars. The only american car I can remember being in was a 1977 corvette and it's done a lot different and appeared much cheaper than anything I've been in, the plastic reminded me of a plastic bottle gone hard and brittle.

I always liked how Japanese cars don't really have as much plastic, it's more like a fake leather material with a foam underlay to make it soft and not prone to rattle as much as plastic. But I did notice most modern cars just have hard nasty plastic no matter the manufacturer.

 

[niky]

Everyone has plastic interiors now. So that's not the problem.

homeforsummer has explained it quite nicely. It's got to feel good and durable, at the same time. No matter how nice the plastics on the Chrysler 300C are now (a huge jump from the old car) and how much real wood they use inside, the build quality and fitment mean it's never going to feel as expensive inside as the European competition.

But what really confuses the matter for most people is that some of what is actually expensive doesn't feel much better than the "cheap" stuff, nowadays. And some of the "mass market" brands are producing interiors that are incredibly nice to touch and well-screwed together at the same time.

-

VW of America uses different plastics for their mass market models. I don't know what Audi of America does, but most modern Audis I've ridden in have absolutely smashing interiors. They make most recent Mercs and BMWs feel spartan and cheap, in comparison. (BMW uses a whole lot of plastic, but it's of the nice variety. Merc plastic in the last generation just... sucked.)

 

[Joel]

After that, it's about how it's been screwed together. This, for me, is probably most important, and the reason I don't really care about touchy-feeliness. Japanese cars from the 80s and 90s tended to use fairly hard and nasty plastics to touch, but were screwed together brilliantly. The absolute cheapest of modern cars has more soft-touch plastics and textured surfaces than say, a 1990s Camry, but the Camry feels like it'll last a million years. A car that feels like it's about to disintegrate can't be considered high quality regardless of how squishy the plastics are.

This is true in my experiences as well. The plastics in my '03 Corolla are pretty nasty really not all that nice to touch. However, the build quality is excellent and everything just feels solid from the arm rest to the hand crank windows. Compare that to my friend's 06 Pontiac G6 or his old Trans Am and it's pretty telling. Even though the Pontiacs have "nicer" plastics to touch, the panel gaps are massive and they creak and squeak every time you touch them. I agree that it's more important to prioritize build quality, I don't get in my car and start rubbing my hands all over the dashboard, but if everything is creaking and cracking all the time it just doesn't make for a good experience.

Then as you said, you get into some of the modern German cars and they're just a nice place to sit. Even my mom's basic Golf is nice, the plastics are all soft touch and they just feel solid and well put together. I know that's all just part of the illusion of a car being "high quality" when god knows how reliable the mechanical bits are, but it's hard not to be swayed when a basic car is that nice inside.

 

[homeforsummer]

And some of the "mass market" brands are producing interiors that are incredibly nice to touch and well-screwed together at the same time.

Most of Peugeot and Citroen's recent efforts have been excellent, I've found. Combined with the extra bit of flair you tend to get in a French car, I'd genuinely place them above VW for touchy-feely quality and not really any worse in terms of build quality either. The Citroen DS5's interior is a thing of beauty:

Citroën DS5 Hybrid by Vitesse Photography, on Flickr


Citroën DS5 Hybrid by Vitesse Photography, on Flickr


Citroën DS5 Hybrid by Vitesse Photography, on Flickr​

Audi is a step above that, though I have to say Audi only really gets going with the A4 and up. The A1 and A3 don't feel that special to me - certainly not bad, but not as wonderful as some like to claim.

Of ze Germans, I'm most partial to Mercedes' current interiors. Maybe lacks the last few degrees of touchy-feeliness of an Audi, but Merc has finally got back its knack of making things feel like they'll last a thousand years. Apart from the display screen in the A-Class, which feels like a cheap Korean knock-off iPad. Really lets the side down, that.

everything just feels solid from the arm rest to the hand crank windows.

The arm rest is an underrated tool for judging interior quality. If it squeaks when you put a bit of weight on it (whether the door arm rest to the center console one) then there's room for improvement.

Also, you'd not believe how many cars have uncomfortable arm rests. What kind of idiot designs an arm rest that causes pain in your elbow after five minutes?

 

[sneakypete123]

Have a blob eye Impreza WRX atm, I'd longed for an Impreza when I was 17-19
but it was 4-5 months before I started to like it.
Its noisy and not just the engine and exhuast, you can hear every clunk, bump and rattle which makes you think somethings wrong with it.
Carpets are thin, the doors are so light I was convinced I was going bend the hinges by opening it for the first few weeks, the seats are so light you can pick them up with one hand (as long as there not bolted to the car) The paints so thin I see a new stone chip in it every week. Dont even get me started on the buttons.

All that amongst many other little things gave me that "cheap plastic" feeling about the car, but in the Impreza's case its been made "light and basic" for a reason but you have to drive like your hairs on fire for it to come in to it own. Without the speed and handling, I wouldnt entertain it . It would just be ... well crap

Why did I feel this way about a perfectly good car?
Had an Audi before it.

 

[homeforsummer]

Yup. Past experience and perception has a heck of a lot to do with it. Even cars a handful of years old can feel surprisingly nasty after driving some of the very latest stuff - several manufacturers have made big quality strides in just a few years.

 

[Joel]

It really is pretty amazing. The cheapest basic Kia is miles better than luxury cars from years ago. Like I mentioned earlier, the interior in my mom's basic Golf is nicer than the 2003 A4 a friend of mine has, or the 2000 3 series a friend's dad owns. Of course, the luxury arms race has led to things like a 7 series or LS being decadent rolling palaces of leather while even a Fiesta is pretty nice these days.

 

[Pupik]

VW of America uses different plastics for their mass market models. I don't know what Audi of America does, but most modern Audis I've ridden in have absolutely smashing interiors.

I think the Audis/VWs with painted switches and buttons look and feel great for a few years, and then deteriorate horribly. We had countless warranty claims at Audi to back this up. Interior trim seemed to be much more loose and fragile, in contrast to the stiffer feel to the body structure and their crisper, firmer ride.

Granted, it's not as if we didn't have our share of rattling or clicking noises in various Lexuses, but that wasn't anything some felt tape couldn't resolve, in many cases.

Some cars also suffer from light and hollow-feeling plastics, but think it's the sturdiness that counts in the end.

 

[Wolfe]

Japanese cars from the 80s and 90s tended to use fairly hard and nasty plastics to touch, but were screwed together brilliantly.

This has been my experience in ownership. The Legacy has decidedly cheaper, flimsier materials than the BMW did, but everything is tight. Even with a similar number of miles on it the Subaru is much quieter.

I could add that all of the HVAC controls on my parents' 1996 Oldsmobile have snapped or dropped off at least once. The gaps and wiggles in the panels are terrible, but we are talking about a car that was optioned without the trunk release button, instead getting a plastic plug for the hole in the glovebox. Cheap, cheap, cheap.

 

[sneakypete123]

This has been my experience in ownership. The Legacy has decidedly cheaper, flimsier materials than the BMW did, but everything is tight. Even with a similar number of miles on it the Subaru is much quieter.

I could add that all of the HVAC controls on my parents' 1996 Oldsmobile have snapped or dropped off at least once. The gaps and wiggles in the panels are terrible, but we are talking about a car that was optioned without the trunk release button, instead getting a plastic plug for the hole in the glovebox. Cheap, cheap, cheap.

Yeah should have pointed this out too, everything in the scooby works the way it should and that says alot after 90k miles

 

[Tornado]

Also, you'd not believe how many cars have uncomfortable arm rests. What kind of idiot designs an arm rest that causes pain in your elbow after five minutes?

Whoever designed the interior of the Colorado.

 

[homeforsummer]

Whoever designed the interior of the Colorado.

Unfortunately the Colorado isn't alone. Maybe I just have elbows the wrong shape, but probably a good three-quarters of cars I drive fail the armrest comfort test.