Man w/clutch on controller

[Speedster911]

So I finally tried this today. Wanted to add more depth to my sim experience.

Well... it's wierd. When you downshift, you can't really hear or feel the engine like you can with normal manual. Upshifting sounds the way it should, exactly the way it did. On downshifting, it's almost as if there are no gears grinding, and the rev and engine sound just go up. How wierd. Happens on all cars.

Second, the only way I could make this work was reverse buttons for gears and handbrake/clutch, so that I have RB for clutch, and the right analog stick up (upshift) and down (downshift). This is the ONLY configuration where I can effectively drive and change gears whether going in a straight line or negotiating corners. Downside - no look back or panning 180 degs around the car.

So it's pretty useless on a controller then, isn't it?

 

[Wolfe]

I never liked it. The method some people swear by is to map the clutch to A, leaving the shift buttons on X and B, and just mashing the A button whenever you reach for a shift. I don't like that flat-shifting gives you a sizable advantage over drivers who don't, and I just can't wrap my head around heel-toe downshifting with my fingers. If I end up in a multiplayer lobby that forces manual w/clutch, I'll clutch for upshifts, but I just let the transmission grind on downshifts (no damage since I only play Horizon).

What I would like is to have the clutch available as a mappable button without it being a requirement for a successful shift (on a controller).

 

[Speedster911]

Precisely. Beats me why the controller doesn't have custom config. options. I think I'm going back to just plain ol' manual.

 

[PepeMickey]

I usually rev the engine up a bit when downshifting, kinda like heel and toe but with your fingers. The other method is by mapping the clutch to one of the sticks (I think it's layout 10), up for clutch, down for handbrake and it works well too but using A is by far the easiest and fastest.

 

[ImaRobot]

I can vouch for the sticks. It makes for much more fluid shifting in my case.

 

[Speedster911]

I usually rev the engine up a bit when downshifting, kinda like heel and toe but with your fingers. The other method is by mapping the clutch to one of the sticks (I think it's layout 10), up for clutch, down for handbrake and it works well too but using A is by far the easiest and fastest.

And what buttons used for up/downshifts?

Kinda sucks not being able to use the right analog for looking around.

 

[Bopop4]

You shouldn't hsvr to change sny settibgs around, it's not hard to just tap the clutch when you shift.

It's a bit harder to avoid damage when offline, but online most lobbies run no damage so it's ok.

The reason you don't hear the revs come up is because you're hopping the tires.
I had problems with wheel hop on sone corners, but all you have to is tap the clutch ti stop the gears grinding.

 

[Speedster911]

I never grind gears. It's just that ok.. let me explain it this way:

When downshifting using man w/clutch the downshifts sound almost exactly like GT5! As if there's no inertia or resistance/friction in the transmission gears. It's a very wierd sound; you just see the revs going up but you don't feel that extra load on the engine, neither do you hear it. Hope that explains it.

Then back to plain manual, and everything sounds fine. You can really feel and hear the downshifts. Hard to turn the volume down really!

 

[PepeMickey]

Just do the heel and toe thing and release the clutch in between downshifts, you'll be surprised how crazy good some cars sound when using the clutch in the game.

You can shift as fast or as slow as you want and it'll make for different shifting sounds.

 

[Speedster911]

I've tried both, I don't know what I'm missing here. I do clean shifts just like I do IRL.

OK, Ima give it one last shot.

 

[PepeMickey]

Well, it's really quite hard to be precise using A as the clutch, it really consists on button mashing, you have more control with the right stick but the clipping point is way too small and early, you only need to move the stick like 10%, below that and you'll stall the car, above that and you'll spin the tyres.

Don't expect smooth starts and gear changes in the same way as you could do with a real car.

I do it for the credit bonus and drifting, it takes a while to get used to but it really is just a matter of preference.

Off-topic- what do you guys use for your Audio settings? Sfx focus and sound system, I only have my TV speakers. My problem is that the cars are just too loud but if I use my TV's EQ to muffle them a bit, then everything sounds the same.

 

[Speedster911]

Well, this is what I'm trying ATM:

Config. no. 10, using right analog as clutch (up) and handbrake (down). Upshifts to LB and downshifts to RB since braking the other way around, using LB for downshifts is just wierd.

It seems to be working OK for now, but I'm trying hard to clean shift on the upshifts, but somehow the needle bounces off the rev limiter. What deadzones do you reckon work best for clutch? Right now they're at 5% inside, 95% outside. The downshifts though, as I said earlier, still sound a bit muted and less thrilling as opposed to using plain manual.

Pepe, I'd highly recommend getting a standalone sound system. TV speakers can never do justice to Forza engine sounds!

I got mine through digital 2.1 stereo surround - 8 speakers in all, 4 satellites, 2 midrange and 2 sub-woofers. I keep the focus on default, output to home theater and ingame volume usually at full.

The TV setting will never give you that 'dynamic range' external speakers do. Get at least a stereo system if not a full-blown surround system and use a bunch of high quality RCAs to connect the system to the TV. You got the console going to the TV through HDMI I presume.

Cheers!

 

[PepeMickey]

I did use a custom config for the controller deadzones a while back so I don't remember them but I've been using the default settings for a few months and it feels ok.

The needle bouncing happens to me as well if I attempt to do a gear change super fast, I use A for the most part and since it's like an on/off switch, sometimes I press it down before I fully release the gas.

It kind of works like GT's clutch, you have to do the process step by step, 1)release gas 2)clutch in 3)change gear 4) release clutch 5) accelerate. You can also press the clutch and change gear in the same step and it wil produce a nice, short "bark" (a similar sound to rev-matching on a real car) but you must fully release the gas before you do anything.

I mean the car will still shift and you won't grind any gears but like you said, it'll sound weird.

As for the downshifts, I think there's no way around it other than faking it, do your normal downshift (releasing the clutch in between gear changes) but at the same time, as you make a gear change press the accelerator really quickly and it should produce the sound you're looking for, sometimes you might even press it too much and the revs will go skyhigh damaging your engine but producing a glorious roar.

I think that this is the best you can get out of the controller really. I believe that using the stick for a long period of time will give better results than using A but it takes even more getting used to it.

 

[Speedster911]

^^ Sounds like great advice. 👍

I think that is my problem: not releasing the accelerator completely before compressing the clutch and shifting. I kinda have this problem IRL time when I'm attempting to shift gears too quickly in my 05' Civic. I've managed to lock gears as a result more than a few times (eekkhh... that grinding sound ), and I think the clutch bearing is a little shot as a result - makes a faint grinding sound in first and second, as you're slowly accelerating, but then goes away.

Anyhow, the only thing I miss about normal manual is that "glorious roar" you hear on the downshifts. I might take my time getting used to it, but it certainly is a great way to add depth to your sim experience. The cars sound and behave differently too.
BTW, I love that "short bark" you hear on the really fast upshift attempts, much like you do rev-matching on a real car. Nice!

Like it so far! Going to try man w/clutch in Horizon and FM3 too.

 

[Speedster911]

Hey can anyone please comment on the best inside/outside clutch deadzone settings on a controller? Something that feels a lot like an actual clutch. I know clutches vary so much from car to car, but any setting that closely resembles "Forza's normal manual" shift behavior?

 

[PepeMickey]

Hey, I was doing some testing yesterday and found that moving both clutch deadzones as far as they will go the left will make the clipping point bigger and standing starts are more natural as well as shifting, it'll produce a smoother sound too. (I tested this with "A" though, not sure how it would work with the stick)

BTW if you really want to have an eargasm, drive the F40 Competizione and do your shifting lightning quick, the car will roar in a way that it's simply not possible with single manual.

 

[Speedster911]

The F40 Competizione has pretty meaty and hair-raising exhaust notes to begin with ... this should be GOOD!

 

[Speedster911]

Well, I tried man w/clutch for at least an hour, playing with the cockpit view and tried a whole bunch of different configurations as well as inside and outside clutch deadzones.

I was rev-matching and all on every shift, clean shifting, but during replays I could hear a clunk/thunk kind of sound as if the transmission's grinding gears and locking up. Similarly on every clean upshift while driving, the same during replays sounded like the needle bouncing off the rev-limiter on every shift!

Downshifts are still barely audible and that bark between shifts is just not there.

For me at least, man w/clutch on a controller can be best described as annoying, maybe a bit unfinished.. and the best thing to do is simply lift your finger off the throttle on the stick-shift manual cars. Also, my elbow's thanking me for that as we speak!

 

[Bopop4]

I never grind gears. It's just that ok.. let me explain it this way:

It's not the grinding, if you don't rev match, then the wheels will hop and skid.
The revs will come up, but it will sound like a slipper clutch.

When upshifting, never let off the gas.
Just tapping the clutch and upshifting will give you the best times.
It'll bounce off the limiter, but it'll be faster, and it won't hurt the car either.

 

[Speedster911]

Man, I couldn't get the rev bouncing to stop on upshifts, no matter what. Killed the replay viewing pleasure for me. Plus I can't live with the numb/dull/flaccid downshift sounds..!

Normal manual for now.. I just lift my finger off the throttle for the stick-shifts! Yeah.. close enough