Marbles and dirty lines

[SETWAVE]

I am wondering if there will be marbles and dirty lines coded into GT5 physics.
It's not something that has to be visualised so will save on GPU power, it would make the racing fun, but it would make overtaking even harder if the car in front doesn't make any mistakes by going off line. It would make starts more interesting by half the grid getting a better launch than the others depending on which side they are on. It would also allow for alternative lines to be more grippy if it were to start raining on track.
This would be more fun than just visually seeing skid marks on the track.

 

[Jonstone]

This isone of those issues that prove realism is not the be all and end all of everything.

Introducing marbles etc might be realistic, but limiting overtaking opportunities also limits the fun.

I'm pretty sure that if they could eliminate this from real racing they would do as it would make the sport more exciting so coding it into a game would be a mistake imo

 

[Coxis]

If I'm not mistaken, something like this is already modeled in GT5P. The dark parts of the tracks (the most driven on areas) are more grippy than the light ones, just like in real life.

 

[SETWAVE]

Really? never noticed that. I have noticed the obvious lack in grip when hitting the grass or the dirt off the track when rejoining for a few corners. I also think it happens when you drive slowly your tyres cool down and you feel a similar loss of grip which takes some hard driving to come back to temperature.

 

[ralph89]

Yeah I think I notice that in GT5p, too. After I spun out on the S turn through the grass at Suzuka my tire starts to loose grip and the oversteer starts to kick in.

 

[vaioleto]

If I'm not mistaken, something like this is already modeled in GT5P. The dark parts of the tracks (the most driven on areas) are more grippy than the light ones, just like in real life.

You're right, during a race, there are usually heavily skidmarked areas around the turns that mark out where most cars turned, and if you brake into it, you get more grip than if you brake on the clean asphalt. This is especially evident in GTPSP during the license tests, as sometimes using them is the only way to get that extra 0.05 seconds for gold.

 

[Earth]

Marbles and dirty lines is very important to oval racing

1:43, notice he gets out of the racing line into the marbles, then hes on ice

 

[TiZzla]

If I'm not mistaken, something like this is already modeled in GT5P. The dark parts of the tracks (the most driven on areas) are more grippy than the light ones, just like in real life.

yea i agree 👍

 

[Devedander]

I don't see how you can have marbles in a game without graphically representing them... that just sounds frustrating...

 

[FLASH48]

In GT Mobile if you go into the sand or grass. You better be getting on the brakes alot earlier than usual. To me GT Mobile is alot worse when going off road than GT Prologue!

 

[vaioleto]

I don't see how you can have marbles in a game without graphically representing them... that just sounds frustrating...

And GT5P/GTPSP does visually as well as physically represent them... so what are you frustrated about?

Edit: Oh wait... it's devedander, nvm.

 

[pricey2003]

I don't see how you can have marbles in a game without graphically representing them... that just sounds frustrating...

 

[WVUscion]

Can anyone confirm or deny this effect in GT4? I've been racing in GT4 a lot more in the past few weeks and have noticed grip differences between the darker areas and off. I'm not sure if this is just something I'm imagining is there or not.

 

[Seismica]

I don't think there is a grip difference between the dark and light patches of the track... The darker parts are normally around the racing line and pass through the apex of the corner.

If you miss the apex, you most likely misjudged the braking zone or turned in too late, so you are going to naturally understeer through the corner, giving the illusion that the lighter patches of the track have less grip. We need confirmation from PD as to whether they put in the marble effect, but i seriously doubt they have.

I also don't think they should, the game is good how it is. If i miss the apex, i don't want to skid off aswell as lose time by understeering and earning a penalty for going off the track.

 

[Nomino]

I'm pretty sure that if they could eliminate this from real racing they would do as it would make the sport more exciting so coding it into a game would be a mistake imo

Should they remove grass from the game too? "Don't go onto the grass - that's racing", somebody said on here, or at least said similar. So, "Don't go onto the marbles" either. It's part of racing, and down to the skill of the driver to negotiate overtaking opportunities. If you are not skilled enough, not our problem.

 

[Seismica]

Should they remove grass from the game too? "Don't go onto the grass - that's racing", somebody said on here, or at least said similar. So, "Don't go onto the marbles" either. It's part of racing, and down to the skill of the driver to negotiate overtaking opportunities. If you are not skilled enough, not our problem.

The tarmac is there for a reason, its their to signify where on the track you should be. You seem to be under the impression that they brush the marbles off the racing line, or put the marbles down on the edges of the track so cars slip when driving there. The gravel is there for safety, the grass signifies areas where your car should not be, the kerbs help cars stay on the track in the entry/apex/exit of the corner (i.e. everything is there for a reason - except the marbles). It is a natural occurence on the track, the marbles are there as a result of drivers avoiding those areas due to the fact they are not necessary to drive on to get the best line.

By your thinking, you could have just a small 2 metre wide bit of tarmac where the race line is and cover the rest in gravel. If you go off, or try to overtake, its your own damn fault for being such a sucky driver and being behind in the first place.

 

[Nomino]

The tarmac is there for a reason, its their to signify where on the track you should be. You seem to be under the impression that they brush the marbles off the racing line, or put the marbles down on the edges of the track so cars slip when driving there. The gravel is there for safety, the grass signifies areas where your car should not be, the kerbs help cars stay on the track in the entry/apex/exit of the corner (i.e. everything is there for a reason - except the marbles). It is a natural occurence on the track, the marbles are there as a result of drivers avoiding those areas due to the fact they are not necessary to drive on to get the best line.

By your thinking, you could have just a small 2 metre wide bit of tarmac where the race line is and cover the rest in gravel. If you go off, or try to overtake, its your own damn fault for being such a sucky driver and being behind in the first place.

See here's the thing, it's YOUR thinking there, not mine. Why whould you just have a 2m wide bit of tarmac with no room for overtaking? Now you are just being silly.

Racing lines, rubber laid down, and marbles are all part of the race track, as are gravelled and grassy areas. The skill of a racing driver is in getting their car around the track as fast as possible, while avoiding the grass, gravel, and dirty areas of the track. Marbling naturally occurs more in the outer areas of the corners. Why remove them? They are a by-product of drivers sticking to the racing line, and despite what you think, they are there for that very reason. If you want to overtake, you have to risk going onto dirty areas of the track. Simple as that. Hypothetically, why should they be removed in the game just so you can use parts of the track that you would not realistically be able to use on a real circuit?

Your last paragraph about the 2m wide track suggests I'll get an equally childish response. But, having told you that, you will try to be serious in an attempt to not feel too embarrassed, or not, as you think you will try and call my bluff. You lose.

Have a good day.

 

[SETWAVE]

I don't see how you can have marbles in a game without graphically representing them... that just sounds frustrating...

Moving along in a car you wouldn't be able to see them anyway, even if they were there graphically. On TV i have only seen them on close up shots to specifically point them out, in real life i dont think drivers can see them while racing.

 

[AAscooter]

Placebo effect.

You're looking for it so you see it.

It's not there people.

The grip is constant all over the track and the grip levels are the same at all tracks, whether it be inside the tunnel at Eiger or on the racing line at Daytona.

Don't be so stupid.

 

[NBH]

I'm not sure if more grip exists on the racing line as when I'm off it it normally means I've made a mistake so I'm taking the corner at a different angle and speed so comparing the grip is too difficult. I can see how introducing the marbles effect could ruin some fun but it's part of racing. PD say that they want the driving experience to be like real life but outbraking someone off line and getting the same good grip isn't realistic and if you tried it in real life you may not make the corner which goes against what PD are trying to do.

 

[humpus]

Marbles? I don't think so. We don't even have skidmarks, and we all know that the grip on the racing line increases when more rubber is laid down. That's fairly easy to code into the game, and we still haven't seen it in any GT.

So no, no way this is going to be in GT.

Placebo effect.

You're looking for it so you see it.

It's not there people.

The grip is constant all over the track and the grip levels are the same at all tracks, whether it be inside the tunnel at Eiger or on the racing line at Daytona.

Don't be so stupid.

Ofcourse it's there. Watch an F1 race, they're constantly talking about the clean racing line, dirty side of the track, etc.

 

[Nomino]

Ofcourse it's there. Watch an F1 race, they're constantly talking about the clean racing line, dirty side of the track, etc.

He is talking about the game...

 

[Seismica]

See here's the thing, it's YOUR thinking there, not mine. Why whould you just have a 2m wide bit of tarmac with no room for overtaking? Now you are just being silly.

Racing lines, rubber laid down, and marbles are all part of the race track, as are gravelled and grassy areas. The skill of a racing driver is in getting their car around the track as fast as possible, while avoiding the grass, gravel, and dirty areas of the track. Marbling naturally occurs more in the outer areas of the corners. Why remove them? They are a by-product of drivers sticking to the racing line, and despite what you think, they are there for that very reason. If you want to overtake, you have to risk going onto dirty areas of the track. Simple as that. Hypothetically, why should they be removed in the game just so you can use parts of the track that you would not realistically be able to use on a real circuit?

Your last paragraph about the 2m wide track suggests I'll get an equally childish response. But, having told you that, you will try to be serious in an attempt to not feel too embarrassed, or not, as you think you will try and call my bluff. You lose.

Have a good day.

When a race circuit is designed they lay down the tarmac and then the marbles naturally occur.

Why should they be there? They are a nuisance and why should someone who has already gone wide, be further punished by loss of traction on a tarmac area of the track. If they go on the grass/gravel fine, but the tarmac should be an even, consistent surface to race on. The marbles are not part of the design, they are not intended to be there. In real life it is a safety concern, but that doesn't matter too much. It is costly and time consuming to move them after each race which is why noone does it (and nothing can be done about it during a race obviously), not because 'it is a part of racing' as you stated.

But in a game, where we are racing our imaginary race careers, there can be some imaginery ninja cleaning guy with a dustpan and brush to keep the track clean for the racers. Or some fairies or leprechauns, or something like that. Childish enough?

 

[Nomino]

When a race circuit is designed they lay down the tarmac and then the marbles naturally occur.

Why should they be there? They are a nuisance and why should someone who has already gone wide, be further punished by loss of traction on a tarmac area of the track. If they go on the grass/gravel fine, but the tarmac should be an even, consistent surface to race on. The marbles are not part of the design, they are not intended to be there. In real life it is a safety concern, but that doesn't matter too much. It is costly and time consuming to move them after each race which is why noone does it (and nothing can be done about it during a race obviously), not because 'it is a part of racing' as you stated.

But in a game, where we are racing our imaginary race careers, there can be some imaginery ninja cleaning guy with a dustpan and brush to keep the track clean for the racers. Or some fairies or leprechauns, or something like that. Childish enough?

The only time they occur is during races, therefore they are part of racing. Clear enough?

Should we have some mystical ninja fairy lay some imaginary tarmac in front of our cars when we skid off onto the grass as well? You know, just to make the game easier...

 

[Seismica]

The only time they occur is during races, therefore they are part of racing. Clear enough?

Maybe we can have a safety car for when someone crashes too, and maybe engines can occasionally set on fire/explode, or your gearbox can fail. Those are all part of racing too.

Regardless, there has to be a balance between realism and gameplay, i think marbles on the track would be going a little too far, as would the things i mentioned.

I don't think this idea should be implemented at all. It is by no means a bad idea, it just doesn't belong in a game, even if it is a simulator.

 

[moxtau]

Maybe we can have a safety car for when someone crashes too, and maybe engines can occasionally set on fire/explode, or your gearbox can fail. Those are all part of racing too.

You try to make these features sound ridiculous, but I would actually welcome them.

 

[serversurfer]

I'll be fairly disappointed if gearbox and other mechanical failures aren't an aspect of the new damage modeling.

Similarly, I think rubbering-in and marbles would add to the game as well. Of course, there would be an option to disable it for those who can't cut the mustard.

 

[Blitz187]

But, having told you that, you will try to be serious in an attempt to not feel too embarrassed, or not, as you think you will try and call my bluff. You lose.

Have a good day.

Do you play poker? Judging by this text youre probably really good if you do...

 

[Pierced Lead]

I don't think it'd be much of an issue to implement this, if it isn't already. Just like you have different grip levels or whatnot for road and dirt, just make the grip of the dirty lines a little more stronger than the clean areas.

 

[Bogie 19th]

I say bring the marbles for sure. I don't think the PS3 would have any problems representing them. They do not require any physics, and they are not changing positions. I think we can get that for sure.

I wouldn't mind seeing some strategically placed ones on Eiger, shortly after leaving the tunnel and making that first left. Of course, I would like them on Daytona as well!