Mazda may own it, but it's still Laguna to me.

[Duke]

Here's my original post from my first of several attempts at this race (most of them limited to 10-lap qualifying sessions):

Well, much like Der Alta, I just spent an hour or more tuning and adjusting my car for this race, trying to reach a competitve selection.

And I got creamed. I gave up on it at 45 laps out of 90. The funny thing is, it was almost the slowest car there that was kicking my ass.

I wanted to use the Autobacs MR-S, because I haven't really driven it much, and it seems like a great car for this track. I loaded T4s, Turbo 1, and Turbo 2 onto the trailer and headed out. In my first qualifying session, with Turbo 1 on the car, I was turning 1':23.xxx" laps. The C5R was running about 2 seconds faster. Even with pits figured in, I can't win the race.

Next qualifying session, neither the Viper nor the C5R shows. With Turbo 2 / 512 hp, I'm about half a second behind the Esperante. So I started the race, and as I feared, I took the lead right away, and had a decent margin when the Esperante pitted out from behind me. This is 5 laps into a 90 lap race, and I didn't want to be lonely.

So I reloaded and rentered the race 10 times until I got the same field: Esperante, Lister, GT40, Vertigo, and CLK Touring Car. Back to Turbo 1 and 409 hp. A quick qualifier lands me in 4th, and running about 1-2 seconds behind the Esperante. Great! Competitive but winnable. I started the race.

All was well until I pitted on 10. There was lots of great close action and lead swaps, but at my pit, the Vertigo got by as part of a crowd. When some of them started pitting, he assumed the lead. And just kept walking away, lap by lap. I pitted again on 20 and fell farther behind. I pitted again on 30 and fell farther behind. The Vertigo just kept inching away, and he didn't pit until lap 37! At that point I caught up to within 20-odd seconds of him, but I had to pit again on 40, and I fell back to 45 seconds behind by the midpoint. He's probably only going to pit 1 more time to my 4 more pits! So I quit.

What a pain in the butt. I've never gotten 37 useful laps out of any tires on any car on any course... Which means I've got to go back to the extra power, and maybe step back to T3s. In which case I might as well tackle the Viper and C5R.

 

[Duke]

Since my first real but aborted run at this in the Autobacs MR-S, I auditioned the following cars:

Tickford Falcon, stock - too slow by half, and hard on front rubber.
CLK Touring Car, stock - a little better but still too slow in stock form.
Denso Supra, stock - got the sauce to last, but I've already used this car.

Other cars I considered were the Calsonic Skyline, the C-West Silvia with Stage 1 upgrade, the Vertigo, and the Diablo. For various reasons, I picked a car I had never driven ever before: the Panoz GTR-1, on T3s, stock, with oil change.

I had a window of opportunity to run this race, and I was tired of dinking around picking the perfect car. I realized I had never driven this car, and I know that many many people don't like it, so I set out to understand why they don't.

2 hours and 2 minutes later, I have no idea why people don't like the Panoz.

The tortoise-and-hare Vertigo is very difficult to plan against, with the absurd 37-lap pit schedule, so I reloaded until I got a field without it. I knew from my practice sessions that the effective hot shoe would be the Oreca Viper, fast and running an 8-lap pit interval. The other contenders were the C5R, the GT40, my teammate in the other Panoz, and the poor CLK touring car, still driven by the worst racer currently holding a ride for the season.

I made some quick, first-pass suspension adjustments and ran a quick 2-lap qualifier. A 1':20.145" put me in 3rd place on the grid, about 1.high" behind the Viper, and about 0.high" behind the C5R. That means my only real race will be against the Viper since the Vette pits ever 6-7 laps and I can comfortably get 10 laps out of my T3s.

From the rolling start, I got hung up in traffic in the first turn, as the Vette's fat butt blocked the turn and several cars rear-ended me on cold tires. As we sorted out the jam, the Viper took off, followed at some distance by the Vette, with me dogging him. After a neck-and-neck squirt through the Corkscrew, I passed the Vette for 2nd place on the downhill left. The Viper at this point was about -6.low" ahead of me.

I slowly reeled in the Team Oreca car, concentrating on solid, consistent laps. I was within a few lengths of him when he pitted out after lap 8, giving me my first lead. Incidentally, this is when I also encountered lap traffic, in the form of the CLK's headlights pointing towards me as I rounded the last turn. What a sap. This lead lasted 2 laps until I pitted after 10. Again I slowly reeled him in and managed to pass him on the back chute after the 3rd overpass, moments before he pitted after lap 16. The 2-lap difference in our tires' heat cycle was beginning to show up, however, so that was the only time I was able to pass the Viper on the open track.

We traded leads by pit stop for the next two of my intervals (3 of his), though I was slowly drawing ahead. The watershed moment came on lap 40, where we were both scheduled for a stop. I pulled off for my 4th time; he took his 5th break 10.low" behind me, and we exited with the same spacing. From that moment the race was unlosable unless I screwed up, which I didn't; at least not badly enough that he ever came close to the lead again.

He managed to gain up to about +8.mid", but at lap 48 he was back down to +11.low" and his tires were shot, while I had 2 more good laps before pitting. From then on it was "hit the ball and drag Charlie", as the punchline goes. Having found a bit of a groove, I was turning consistent 1':18.high" laps on good tires, falling off to about 1':20.low" on the 9th & 10th laps of the heat cycle. Shortly after lap 70 I turned in a FTOD of 1':17.998".

Throughout all this second half of the race, I rarely saw the Viper. However, I did get some entertaining battles as I ran across lapped traffic. I had repeated goes with the C5R, the GT40, and my Panoz teammate as they gained and lost laps due to pit stops. Only the Viper managed to stay on the lead lap while I crossed the finish line after 90 circuits.

Total time: 122':11.763"
Fast lap: 1':17.998"
Average lap: 1':21.464", including 8 pits at about 18.mid" each
Margin: +1':01.523", Oreca Viper; +3 laps, C5R; +4 laps, Panoz and GT40; +11 laps, CLK.

 

[Old Geezer]

Hey neon_duke:
Another GREAT Write-Up!!! 👍 The Panoz GTR-1 is one of the many cars I've never driven as well, guess I'll have to give it a try!!!...UB57

 

[Sleek Stratos]

Man you're good at these! 👍
I've always dreamed of a nice, tight endurance race, never had the time to do the research for it though.

 

[Der Alta]

Total time: 122':11.763"
Fast lap: 1':17.998"
Average lap: 1':21.464", including 8 pits at about 18.mid" each
Margin: +1':01.523", Oreca Viper; +3 laps, C5R; +4 laps, Panoz and GT40; +11 laps, CLK.

Ouch... 11 laps?!? Very nice run, and it just goes to show that the Panoz shouldn't be written of as a slow machine.

Nice write-up as well.

Good luck on the 100% assault. 2.5% left to go?

AO

 

[Duke]

Originally posted by UB57
The Panoz GTR-1 is one of the many cars I've never driven as well, guess I'll have to give it a try!

Originally posted by Der Alta
It just goes to show that the Panoz shouldn't be written of as a slow machine.

Maybe I got the wrong impression, but I've seen lots of people complain about the Panoz, and how worthless it is. With 199 miles on a tough course under my belt with it, I really don't understand why.

I ran the car stock - 618 hp with oil change with a weight of 1150 kg. HP fell to 588 towards the end of the race. Knowing I wanted to beat an 8-lap pit interval, I went with T3s, which are not as grippy as T4s OR as loooong lasting as T2s. A compromise tire.

I made my common set of knee-jerk suspension adjustments to it, after about 1 flying lap of stock settings. Increased front camber, lowered ride height by 15% and stiffened springs by 15%, and maximized downforce. By rights I should have stiffened the springs more to match the D/F, but they were near the top as it was. I didn't touch the dampers at all.

I shortend the transmission autoset by a few clicks, but left the final drive ratio alone. I could have gone more, because in 200 miles I never ever touched 6th gear. That probably would have let me lap the Viper.

The car handled very neutrally; it turned in crisply and was responsive to midcorner throttle adjustments. It didn't get all flustered by liberal use of rumble strips, which can really make a difference at Laguna. Tires wore fairly evenly, with mild understeer showing up in the last lap or two of a cycle. It needed a slightly gentle touch on the throttle when digging out of tight corners; but this could be an advantage, and could have been moderated by about 5 minutes' worth of damper adjustments if I had bothered. Here are my first-pass settings:

Springs: 17.4/15.2
Ride Ht: 70/74
Bound: 7/7
Rebound: 7/7
Camber: 3.0/1.0
Toe: +0.0/-0.0
Stabilizers: 4/4
Brakes: 15/15
D/F: 0.85/1.08 (max)

Autoset: 32 (could have been 30, probably)
F/D: 4.000 (I think; whatever the stock setting is)
LSD: 10/40/20
ASM: 0
TCS: 1

Overall I found it a very pleasant ride. My only quibble is about the engine note, which sounds like bad recording at high revs. Other than that it is a fine car, and I'm totally baffled why people don't seem to like it.

PS to Stratos: Thanks for the kind words. I'd be interested to read about your experiences!

[edit] This awarded me 300,000 credits. It also awarded me the lousy Altezza LM, which I already have and don't like anyway. That makes a string of redundant cars recently: Altezza LM, Nismo 400R road car (worst road car in the game), Beetle Cup car, Vertigo, FTO LM. The last two I like but don't need extras. I really would have liked to gain some new cars I didn't already have.

On the plus side, I also got the F094/H for completing the Enduro segment. I know stand at 97.8%, with only the Formula GT left to run. I will probably pre-win a couple of those races, then use the new F094/H to enter the series. At this point I have driven 1 lap of Tokyo R246 as the sum total of my experience in the Formula 1 cars. [/edit]

 

[LoudMusic]

Wow, long races won by a long margin ...

Hey, has anyone had a long race, 30+ minutes, won by just a few seconds? I think that would be pretty cool, especially if the pit schedules weren't synced and you had to catch the AI on the final lap.

 

[Duke]

Originally posted by LoudMusic
Hey, has anyone had a long race, 30+ minutes, won by just a few seconds?

I've had two, and they were two of my most fun races, despite the fact that they were run at the Test Curse.

I ran the Autobacs MR-S in the Pro Dream Car series against the LMs. At the Test Course only, I went Turbo 2 for 512 hp, but I still wasn't powerful enough to hang with the fast cars. I had to catch a series of tows, barely jumping onto the back of the dominant S2000 LM as he came up from his last pit stop. I hung on right behind him until the last half of the last turn and made a slingshot pass, winning a 29':27.xxx" race by 0.350".

In the All-Japan GT I ran the stock Oreca Viper. I pulled the same feat against the Pennzoil GT-R, winning a 29':22.xxx" race by 0.164".

 

[LoudMusic]

Both at Test Course? Wow. Though I guess that kind of finish is only possible on a course where you can pick up a solid draft for a long approach on the finish line. Perhaps R246 could yield similar results.

 

[Der Alta]

Close race, tight Margin of win:

Laguna Seca, F1 Series, Professional
33 laps

Pit Schedule
I pitted on lap 7, 14, 21 and 27
F094/s pitted on lap 9, 18 and 27

Results
F094/S: + 8.698
F090/S: + 54.054
F688/S: + 1’3.913
F687/S: + 1’9.221
F686/M: + 1 lap

Best lap: 1’02.835
Total Time: 37’46.443
Average lap (me): 1’08.680
Average lap (AI): 1’08.994

Less than 9 seconds for a 37minute race.

Or this one: Running Cheap in the Roadster Enduro. 34 seconds over 1h13min+ enduro.

And if you want to go for a real tight race, two weeks ago, the Beginner division top four were stretched over 1/10 of a second. At 120 miles per hour, that's less than 18 feet for four cars.

[edit]Ok, Duke's got me beat[/edit]

AO

 

[Old Geezer]

Originally posted by LoudMusic
Wow, long races won by a long margin ...

Hey, has anyone had a long race, 30+ minutes, won by just a few seconds? I think that would be pretty cool, especially if the pit schedules weren't synced and you had to catch the AI on the final lap.

Hi LoudMusic :
Sounds like you're ready to join the "Close Race Fan Club."
Check this one out:
https://www.gtplanet.net/forum/t-18565.html & let me know what you think???...UB57

 

[ving]

poor clk

well written Mr!

 

[MMMPWR]

did you try for a close race? i think the closest the 2nd place car has ever been in a endurance race to me is something like 8+ laps

 

[Old Geezer]

Originally posted by MMMPWR
did you try for a close race? i think the closest the 2nd place car has ever been in a endurance race to me is something like 8+ laps

Greetings MMMPWR :
And WELCOME to the GTP Forums. YES, you've stumbled upon a group of enthusiasts who take NO PLeasure in "Murdering" the competition. We DO however take great pleasure in Winning Enduros & in fact any races with the LEAST POSSIBLE Horse Power & most "Unlikely" ride. We're all "Mystified" as to why anyone would use, for example a LeMans racer at the "Rome Enduro" or a F-1 ANYWHERE except the F-1 Series. Enjoy your stay...UB57

 

[Crayola]

Originally posted by LoudMusic
Wow, long races won by a long margin ...

Hey, has anyone had a long race, 30+ minutes, won by just a few seconds? I think that would be pretty cool, especially if the pit schedules weren't synced and you had to catch the AI on the final lap.

I've done it in the polophony digital cup in a RGT, i couldnt afford to pit so i had to catch him with grip that wasn't nearly ample, cant remember which car but I only caught him in the tunnel on the last lap, also i didnt cut across the first chicane on any lap for that matter, good times.

 

[TurboSmoke]

i would love to be able to use the panoz but for some reason i always have traction problems with it...it spins to easily for my liking even with a decent set up on the suspension and LSD etc...

you've got more patience than me...i'll give you that ND...my TV would have been horsed out the window by now if it were me...

 

[Slicks]

Hey, Neon. Good write-up, there. I too did the Laguna Seca enduro recently. Except I just wanted to get it over with, so I used the F687 (i think). Much harder to drive than the F090, or at least that's what I've found.
I was against the same lineup as you were, I think. Gotta laugh at the CLK


Oh, and I also won the Altezza. I was hoping for the F1 car, but noooooooooooooooo. Sometimes I really wish that the car could be chosen by you, not the game.

 

[justin_g]

Just ran the Laguna Seca 200 in a stock Gillet Vertigo.

440hp and T5 medium tyres.

Competition:
Viper Team Oreca
Corvette C5R
Panoz GTR-1
Lister Storm
GT40 Race Car

My pit strategy is the same as the Viper - every 8 laps(11 stops), but I plan to do two 9 lap sections so I don't have to stop at lap 88 and have one less stop than the Viper.

From pole position I manage to maintain my lead and slowly pull away from the Viper, gaining about 2 seconds for every pitstop, even though my laptimes are wildly inconsistent - ranging from 1:18's to 1:21's or more.

At the finish:
Vertigo(me) 2:02:30:808
Viper +41:668 (pitstop at lap 88 adds 20 seconds)
Corvette +2 laps
Panoz +4 laps
GT 40 +5 laps
Storm +6 laps

Notes:
Tyres would be orange front and yellow rear after 8 laps.
Power was down to 410hp at the finish -> 431hp after oil change(647.8km on the clock)
Average lap 1:19:45(accounting for pitstops), best lap 1:17:558
The GT 40 would spin coming out of the corkscrew, and run wide on several other corners.

Yesterday I ran this race with the same car and T2 tyres, stopping on laps 27 and 56 - I didn't take the lead until lap 88 and lost it again at the final corner of lap 90 to finish 2nd by 1.141 seconds to the Viper!

 

[LoudMusic]

Leguna Seca is cool and all ... but there's no way you can talk me into doing that endurance again - unless there's a prize car I need. I'm afraid to check ...

 

[Duke]

Originally posted by justin_g
Yesterday I ran this race with the same car and T2 tyres, stopping on laps 27 and 56 - I didn't take the lead until lap 88 and lost it again at the final corner of lap 90 to finish 2nd by 1.141 seconds to the Viper!

Wow! What a heartbreaker!

I would guess your lap times were in the 1:22-1:25 range on the T2s? Your experience kind of goes against coinventional wisdom, which usually says the easiest way to win longer races is to run T2s and not pit.

Interesting writeup, and welcome to GTPlanet!

 

[justin_g]

Thanks for the welcome!

I think the manual mentions that softer tyres end up faster for enduros - the theory being that laptimes are improved by enough to make up for the extra pitstops required.

With the T2 tyres warmed up I could consistently lap in the high 1:21 - low 1:22 range iirc. With T5 tyres the average lap was faster(mid 1:19) - but there were big variations, anything from mid 1:17 to 1:23 or more. Mainly because the car would change from oversteer to understeer after a few laps as the tyres had different wear rates front and back. With the harder tyres this effect was much less apparent and laptimes were much more stable.

 

[Old Geezer]

Hi justin_g:
Must add my "Welcome" 👍 as well.
As to your statement concerning differing tyre wear front to rear: Are you aware that you don't have to run the same tyres on both ends? I've found a fair number of rides that respond well to "Mis-Matched' tyres, especially for Enduro Use...UB57