Memes are not Memes

[stuff1138]

This thread and conversation (if one should even begin) is to bring awareness to the incorrect use of the word meme in today's culture. In fact this incorrect use itself is actually a meme and probably one of the more influential since the word awesome was transformed to it's now widely accepted use.

Memes are cultural phenomena which catch on and spread from person to person. Be it a gesture like thumbs up; the misuse of a word like awesome; a beer commercial where everyone says wassuuuppp! when they see each other for years after it stops airing; a video of a cute cat uploaded to youtube that everyone in the office has to see which gets 10 million hits in a day; a funny picture on the internet that spreads around social media like wildfire and everyone you know sees it.

What it isn't though is some picture of a dude making a face with something written in block letters over it and then posted to a forum, facebook, twitter, etc. Until that picture catches on and spreads through popular culture from person to person...it is not a meme. It is just a failed attempt at one.

 

[Liquid]

What it isn't though is some picture of a dude making a face with something written in block letters over it and then posted to a forum, facebook, twitter, etc. Until that picture catches on and spreads through popular culture from person to person...it is not a meme. It is just a failed attempt at one.

But if it does catch on, it is a meme.

Where's the discussion? The most successful memes of the 2000s and 2010s happen to have been pictures with superimposed text. Logically, a lot of people will replicate what's popular. Some will catch on, others won't.

 

[IneedSchool]

What it isn't though is some picture of a dude making a face with something written in block letters over it and then posted to a forum, facebook, twitter, etc. Until that picture catches on and spreads through popular culture from person to person...it is not a meme. It is just a failed attempt at one.

Well, doesn't that mean the "picture of a dude making a face with something written in block letters over it" is still a meme? I mean yeah, it might be a failed attempt if people think it's not good but if that picture was intended to be spread around the internet then that's still a meme.

 

[FT-1]

What it isn't though is some picture of a dude making a face with something written in block letters over it and then posted to a forum, facebook, twitter, etc. Until that picture catches on and spreads through popular culture from person to person...it is not a meme. It is just a failed attempt at one.

Isn't that how a meme is created? At one point, every popular meme was a random image with block letters on it, then it caught on. To echo what Liquid said, some attempts of creating a meme which catches on go better than others.

 

[stuff1138]

The "discussion" is that the word meme is now used to describe only a picture with words superimposed regardless of whether or not it catches on or not. Plenty of memes in the last 2 decades have been more than just pictures with words superimposed. Popular music and fashion trends are memes. The cultural shift towards eating in gastro pubs as opposed to high end restaurants with table cloths and serviettes...all these things qualify.

 

[Danoff]

 

[stuff1138]

@Danoff lol

 

[Liquid]

The "discussion" is that the word meme is now used to describe only a picture with words superimposed regardless of whether or not it catches on or not.

No, the word meme does not simply mean "Picture + Text", but Picture + Text is an example of meme and we have been inundated with them over the past few years so they are damn common. As you yourself go on to say in the very next sentence...

Plenty of memes in the last 2 decades have been more than just pictures with words superimposed. Popular music and fashion trends are memes. The cultural shift towards eating in gastro pubs as opposed to high end restaurants with table cloths and serviettes...all these things qualify.

True. Whether we decide to actively acknowledge them as memes is another matter. It depends how often a particular idea, ideal, notion or cultural trend comes up. Funny pictures occur often, and 'meme' is a convenient and accurate umbrella term for Pictures + Text.

However, the fact that you can be bombarded with one particular type of cultural trend (Picture + Text) if you go to the right place (Anywhere on the internet which uses humour) does not make it the only kind of meme.

False syllogism?

Pictures + Text are memes, therefore all memes are Pictures + Text. Not true.
Pictures + Text are memes with significant exposure and discussion actively acknowledging themselves as memes, but other memes are available.

You do raise a good point about ambiguity, though. More correctly, Pictures + Text are examples of humour memes. The prefix "humour" is almost always omitted because most other types of memes do not need, require or use the word 'meme' to describe themselves.

 

[IneedSchool]

I guess I can explain this: there are three elements to a meme, Character, Personality, and Situation. The character is either a person, animal, or an inanimate object if you're creative enough (ex. Bad Luck Brian, Courage Wolf, Scumbag USA). Personality is what makes the character interesting (ex. Awkward, Awesome, Unlucky). Situation is what makes the meme sharable. You could take any situation (ex. Everyday life, Gaming, Politics) and when mixed with the character and his/her/it's personality, could create usually a humorous or at least interesting result.

 

[stuff1138]

@Liquid you and I are on the same page completely. The reason I made this post is I've had the discussion more and more often in the last 5 years with people who insist that a meme is a picture on the internet with superimposed text and that nothing else qualifies as a meme. And frankly I'm getting tired of it. I'm sure gtplanet isn't exactly the right forum for this fight to familiarize people with the actual definition of the word meme but it's a start.

 

[yabiggoose]

How many words in the English language are used strictly to their definition/correct usage?

It's evolution of a language. Words gain or lose meanings.

Bit like gay.

You could call image based memes humour trends if you like but they still qualify as memes.

If someone doesn't know the full meaning of meme then so be it. We are not all walking dictionaries.

 

[stuff1138]

@yabiggoose etymology is a form of memetics. Learning the origin of words and the archaic uses and roots of words can increase one's vocabulary and ability to communicate a point more effectively. Yes not everyone is a walking dictionary. I know I'm not. There is however a difference between the evolution of a language and a complete ignorance of the true definition of a word.

Awesome and awful are good examples of this. Awesome is defined as something that inspires fear or wonder. Awful is defined as something that is very bad. Archaically they meant the same thing awesome does today. I've had the discussion a few times now with people who learned english later in their life who were confused by the over-misuse of the word awesome to mean something is very good. One of them was actually offended the first few times someone said "awesome" to them thinking that the person they were talking to was pleased with how awful the situation they were relaying was.

This said I suppose that the definition of meme that most seem to use these days would actually be slang but something tells me that shortly it will become a caveat to the definition itself.

 

[TenEightyOne]

The "discussion" is that the word meme is now used to describe only a picture with words superimposed regardless of whether or not it catches on or not.

So they are memes or not? A minute ago they weren't.... or did you just find out what meme meant and wanted to tell everyone off?

 

[stuff1138]

So they are memes or not? A minute ago they weren't.... or did you just find out what meme meant and wanted to tell everyone off?

If the pictures with superimposed text catch on and spread they are memes. Until that time they are just superimposed text on a picture. What I'm saying is that the definition of meme is not a picture with superimposed text on it. When I refer to the term meme I am not talking specifically about a picture with superimposed text on it I am talking about a phenomenon which spreads through popular culture.

EDIT: Something to note. The misuse of the word meme to only mean a picture with superimposed text on it is a meme, as I mentioned in the OP. Since today's culture has clung to the word and defined it as such then that act of defining the word incorrectly is a meme. A picture with superimposed text on it's own is not a meme until it is passed from person to person.

One cannot create a meme and never share it. By definition that is not a meme.

 

[TenEightyOne]

If the pictures with superimposed text catch on and spread they are memes. Until that time they are just superimposed text on a picture. What I'm saying is that the definition of meme is not a picture with superimposed text on it. When I refer to the term meme I am not talking specifically about a picture with superimposed text on it I am talking about a phenomenon which spreads through popular culture.

If I use Facebook to share a crappy picture-with-text and someone else sees it... guess what? I shared it through a popular cultural medium from person to person. Are you saying that you should be the arbiter of en-memal-shareage and the qualificational floor for meme-al accreditation? Is that it? Or did meme something nobody liked?

What is this thread even about? It all seems a bit... you'll like this... meme-meme-meme

You can have that one. ^^^

 

[Dotini]

I am under the impression that a true meme has staying power, potentially through generations or centuries, but at least for a significant amount of time, enough to cause a lasting effect.

 

[stuff1138]

@TenEightyOne lol nice play on words.

Actually by definition just sharing it does not qualify it as a meme...see the post by Dotini above

 

[TenEightyOne]

@TenEightyOne lol nice play on words.

Actually by definition just sharing it does not qualify it as a meme...see the post by Dotini above

What if I told you... @Dotini isn't the arbiter either?

I am under the impression that a true meme has staying power, potentially through generations or centuries, but at least for a significant amount of time, enough to cause a lasting effect.

I mostly agree. The question in the most modern medium is what length of time is "significant"? I'd argue that it's massively lower than it was, pretty much as an inverse function of how more quickly images and words are spread than they were thirty years ago.

I don't see that there's any debate to be had about the meaning of meme (apart this enormously-enjoyable-if-slightly vest-in-underpants thread) that doesn't go to that wider media concsiousoness and the rapid rate at which conversational norms are changing.

 

[HKS racer]

This thread and conversation (if one should even begin) is to bring awareness to the incorrect use of the word meme in today's culture. In fact this incorrect use itself is actually a meme and probably one of the more influential since the word awesome was transformed to it's now widely accepted use.

Memes are cultural phenomena which catch on and spread from person to person. Be it a gesture like thumbs up; the misuse of a word like awesome; a beer commercial where everyone says wassuuuppp! when they see each other for years after it stops airing; a video of a cute cat uploaded to youtube that everyone in the office has to see which gets 10 million hits in a day; a funny picture on the internet that spreads around social media like wildfire and everyone you know sees it.

What it isn't though is some picture of a dude making a face with something written in block letters over it and then posted to a forum, facebook, twitter, etc. Until that picture catches on and spreads through popular culture from person to person...it is not a meme. It is just a failed attempt at one.

Are you the dude of Bad Luck Brian meme?
Can you sign me an autograph?

 

[stuff1138]

Well @TenEightyOne I think the problem with this thread I created is that everyone who is taking part seems to actually have a grasp on the term meme and what it means. Also that a simple image with superimposed text on it is not by definition a meme until it has some kind of trend to it.

My frustrations lie with the people I encounter who insist that a meme is just a picture with superimposed text, despite it's trending or not and that nothing else can be a meme other than that.

@HKS racer lol not so interestingly enough my name is Bryan but no that's not me lol

 

[HKS racer]

@HKS racer lol not so interestingly enough my name is Bryan but no that's not me lol

Reading your post I genuinely thought "OMG this is the Bad Luck Brian dude that is tired to be considered a meme and now opened a therad explaining how he is not." LOL
Bad Luck Brian for the win!

What if I told you, I AM Scumbag Steve?

 

[stuff1138]

What if I told you, I AM Scumbag Steve?

Then I hope you're making money off the use of your likeness

 

[TenEightyOne]

Well @TenEightyOne I think the problem with this thread I created is that everyone who is taking part seems to actually have a grasp on the term meme and what it means.

Why is that a problem? You wanted to explain what meme means... or is it a problem because you find you didn't need to make the thread?

You say we're using the word wrong but then include the way we commonly use it as a definition; then your argument is "ah but that's not exclusive" without saying when/where anybody said it was.

You also concede that what isn't a meme isn't a meme but if it isn't then it can be one any way.

The only point you're still not addressing is how many people need to see something for it to be "shared", if you read @Dotini's excellent definition you could also address whether or not a share is "significant".

So, how do you address those points?

I'll leave this here for you, please don't try to eat it one go.

 

[HKS racer]

Then I hope you're making money off the use of your likeness

In all seriusness can I ask how you make money becoming a meme? I guess you need a pool of lawers and sue everyone using your photo with no permission?

 

[stuff1138]

@HKS racer there's gotta be a way to leverage that...maybe create a youtube channel?

 

[TenEightyOne]

@HKS racer there's gotta be a way to leverage that...maybe create a youtube channel?

Go on... take the points on....

 

[Ettick]

Memes are anything that is repeated over and over again. Baneposting is an example of a meme.

Images with text over them are image macros. If the same one is repeated over and over again, it is a meme. An example of this would be ayy lmao.

 

[Famine]

I think the important question we're all missing here is...

Is a meme an atheist?

 

[PeterJB]

I assumed this would be a discussion about the meme as described by Richard Dawkins...

 

[TenEightyOne]

I think the important question we're all missing here is...

Is a meme an atheist?

@Famine, this was the only refuge