- 795
- ohio
- beretta-gt88
I'm building a replica and I'm wondering what tires to use to simulate Michelin Super Sport Tires, Sport Medium or Sport Soft?
Michelin Super Sport Tires
- Thread starter berettagt88
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- 795
- ohio
- beretta-gt88
- 1,078
- United States
- DGXR
- DGXR1
Are there no real-life street-legal cars that come stock with SM- or SS-comparable tires? What comes on the McLaren F1, the MP4-12C, the Veyron, the C6 ZR-1 and the 458?
I know the OP is talking about a Camaro, but I find this blanket statement a little hard to believe. Yes I have been wrong before. School me if you can.
- 5,907
- Canada
The examples you listed (MP4-12C, 458, etc) come with Sport Hards in game by default. Semi-slicks, basically:
In reality, they should have road tires that you and I see more often in real life.
It'd be nice if someone could shed some light on the subject, as I'm not 100% sure either myself.
In reality, they should have road tires that you and I see more often in real life.
It'd be nice if someone could shed some light on the subject, as I'm not 100% sure either myself.
Last edited:
- 5,814
- Hillsboro Oregon
- XDesperado67
- XDesperado67
There has been a lot of other threads discussing the various tires in GT5.
The best resolution I saw was to forget about equating the games tires to real life tire grades/types. Instead of saying a Sports Hard tire is the same as such and such real life tire, you simply try to use the grade of tire that produces the same lateral grip as the real life car has. Thus you may have cars in game that have the same brand and type of tire in real life but will require different grades of tire in game to match their real world performance.
The best resolution I saw was to forget about equating the games tires to real life tire grades/types. Instead of saying a Sports Hard tire is the same as such and such real life tire, you simply try to use the grade of tire that produces the same lateral grip as the real life car has. Thus you may have cars in game that have the same brand and type of tire in real life but will require different grades of tire in game to match their real world performance.
the Michelin Pilot Super Sport 2 ZP were on the 7:19 N'ring Corvette ZR-1, that could be a simulated guide for you. They have a 80 UTQG tread wear rating which probably is a sports soft, its listed as a DOT Competition tire, "Ultra High Performance". I would think sports hards are in the 200 UTQG range, comforts even higher.
- 23,800
- Philippines
Nope. The effects will be different for each car. You need data for the car you're modelling.
We discussed this at length during GT4, and then again when GT5 was released (although one of the updates changed the grip differential between comfort and sport tires).
Typically, Comfort Hards give similar lateral grip/gravity numbers to your typical performance tires, while Sports Hards give similar lateral grip/gravity numbers to ultra-high performance, barely streetable tires like the Pilot Sport Cups or the Advan A048s on the Lotus Exige. Of course, this was all eyeballed based on the relatively crude G-graphs on the on-screen display.
It's been a long time, but I recall that either Kazunori or PD stated that Sports Hard simulates the tires on sports cars and supercars (in GT5), but that was a looong time ago.
Sports Soft tires represent your "road legal" track tires. Stuff that's treaded but so gummy they'll pull well over 1.5 G on the skidpad and be bald by the time you get home. They're NOT racing tires, so assigning regular road tires that last tens of thousands of miles to Sports Soft arbitrarily leaves you nowhere to put these things. Perhaps ultra-aggressive supercar rubber might reach SM, but that's about it.
Tires like your Eagle F1s, Super Sports, P-Zeros, etcetera, fall between Comfort Soft and Sports Hard, but finding out exactly where all of them fall would be a painstaking process.
I did some of the skidpad testing during the GT4 discussion, but not for GT5. Someone else, did, however, and it produced some interesting results:
https://www.gtplanet.net/forum/showthread.php?t=160821
Note that identical lateral grip figures for the Camaro (on the crappy stock tires) there were achieved with Comfort Mediums.
And the Vette was SM, though if I recall, SMs simply gave too much performance to the Vette in terms of lap times. But that might just be a matter of opinion.
For this replica, you'll want to find skidpad numbers for the real life car then work your way to those results.
We discussed this at length during GT4, and then again when GT5 was released (although one of the updates changed the grip differential between comfort and sport tires).
Typically, Comfort Hards give similar lateral grip/gravity numbers to your typical performance tires, while Sports Hards give similar lateral grip/gravity numbers to ultra-high performance, barely streetable tires like the Pilot Sport Cups or the Advan A048s on the Lotus Exige. Of course, this was all eyeballed based on the relatively crude G-graphs on the on-screen display.
It's been a long time, but I recall that either Kazunori or PD stated that Sports Hard simulates the tires on sports cars and supercars (in GT5), but that was a looong time ago.
Sports Soft tires represent your "road legal" track tires. Stuff that's treaded but so gummy they'll pull well over 1.5 G on the skidpad and be bald by the time you get home. They're NOT racing tires, so assigning regular road tires that last tens of thousands of miles to Sports Soft arbitrarily leaves you nowhere to put these things. Perhaps ultra-aggressive supercar rubber might reach SM, but that's about it.
Tires like your Eagle F1s, Super Sports, P-Zeros, etcetera, fall between Comfort Soft and Sports Hard, but finding out exactly where all of them fall would be a painstaking process.
I did some of the skidpad testing during the GT4 discussion, but not for GT5. Someone else, did, however, and it produced some interesting results:
https://www.gtplanet.net/forum/showthread.php?t=160821
Note that identical lateral grip figures for the Camaro (on the crappy stock tires) there were achieved with Comfort Mediums.
And the Vette was SM, though if I recall, SMs simply gave too much performance to the Vette in terms of lap times. But that might just be a matter of opinion.For this replica, you'll want to find skidpad numbers for the real life car then work your way to those results.
- 12,639
- paracuru
- praiano63
The Mercedes-Benz SLS AMG Top Gear Test Track Time Trial was on COMFORT SOFT.
To match and compete against the real SLS driven by David Coulthard.
http://us.gran-turismo.com/us/products/gt5/event/d5957.html
Here is the Michelin of the Mercedes-Benz SLS AMG
http://www.michelin.co.uk/tyres/michelin-pilot-super-sport?fromTyreSelector=true&brand=MERCEDES&selectorMode=byCar&model=sls%20amg&range=sls%20amg&engine=6.3%20v8%20571&year=2009&fromTyreSegment=1&carId=4W100043&dimensionId=pilot-super-sport-04119-978679-76459&selectedDimension=265%20%2F%2035%20R19%2098%20ZR(Y)%20
To match and compete against the real SLS driven by David Coulthard.
http://us.gran-turismo.com/us/products/gt5/event/d5957.html
Here is the Michelin of the Mercedes-Benz SLS AMG
http://www.michelin.co.uk/tyres/michelin-pilot-super-sport?fromTyreSelector=true&brand=MERCEDES&selectorMode=byCar&model=sls%20amg&range=sls%20amg&engine=6.3%20v8%20571&year=2009&fromTyreSegment=1&carId=4W100043&dimensionId=pilot-super-sport-04119-978679-76459&selectedDimension=265%20%2F%2035%20R19%2098%20ZR(Y)%20
- 422
- Eastern MA
- Odin_Wednesday
If the tire classifications actually matched up to real-world performance (instead of being all over the place), I'd figure on the sports tires lying something like this:
SS - sub-100 TW DOT semi-racing tires
SM - ~140 TW R-comp
SH - 180-low 200's TW ultra-high-performance road/track tires
For SH, I'm thinking stuff like the Dunlop Direzza Z2, Falken Azenis RT615K, BFG Rival that are at 200 and the comparable competing tires around 180.
None of that actually means anything in the game, though, as I believe mapping to actual performance falls all over the place.
SS - sub-100 TW DOT semi-racing tires
SM - ~140 TW R-comp
SH - 180-low 200's TW ultra-high-performance road/track tires
For SH, I'm thinking stuff like the Dunlop Direzza Z2, Falken Azenis RT615K, BFG Rival that are at 200 and the comparable competing tires around 180.
None of that actually means anything in the game, though, as I believe mapping to actual performance falls all over the place.
- 5,814
- Hillsboro Oregon
- XDesperado67
- XDesperado67
A stock Silvia SPEC-R Aero (S15) '02 comes with SH tires same as the Viper SRT10 ACR '08.
While it may work in game I'm rather doubtful that the two cars had comparable grade tires in real life when purchased.
Things like this are why I agree that instead of trying to compare the games tire grades to real life tire grades, you need to find tires that give a level of lateral grip that is comparable to the cars real life performance.
To match the game to the real thing different grades of tires will most likely be required. The stock tires in game may either provide better grip or less grip than what they would have in real life.
While it may work in game I'm rather doubtful that the two cars had comparable grade tires in real life when purchased.
Things like this are why I agree that instead of trying to compare the games tire grades to real life tire grades, you need to find tires that give a level of lateral grip that is comparable to the cars real life performance.
To match the game to the real thing different grades of tires will most likely be required. The stock tires in game may either provide better grip or less grip than what they would have in real life.
There's a few different Michelin Pilot Sport. The Sport and Sport PS2 is a 220 UTQG, the Pilot Super Sport is 300, and the Pilot Sport Cup is an 80.
Might not be much difference between CS and SH, but surely the Sport Cups are SS? Since there is no skid pad in GT5 I think the wear numbers have to be the closest way to correlate. Comfort Hards are going to be in the 700+ range,.
Might not be much difference between CS and SH, but surely the Sport Cups are SS? Since there is no skid pad in GT5 I think the wear numbers have to be the closest way to correlate. Comfort Hards are going to be in the 700+ range,.
- 422
- Eastern MA
- Odin_Wednesday
Tread wear ratings are still a little tricky to use to compare tires. As an example, Car and Driver tests preferred the 300 TW Pilot Super Sport to the 200 TW Dunlop Direzza Z1 Star Spec in testing. I'd normally be hesitant to group anything 300 and above with the 180+ crowd, but it appears to be warranted in this case.
- 416
- Hong Kong
- TypeM-
Another thing is that tread wear ratings are only useful when comparing tires from the same manufacturers.
- 3,928
- PepsiMaxCrew
Super Sports are half-way between Comfort Soft and Sport Hard.
A Comfort Soft is like your Pirelli P Zero Rosso/Michelin PS2 while a Hard is like a Toyo R888/Pilot Sport Cup.
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