Mileage and lost of power

[mary ann]

Hello everyone and sorry if this info was posted before.

I've been using the same car only for grinding (money) and never did an oil change.
The car was getting slower, so I remember about an old threat in this forum from an older gt game.

If this is the same for every cars, well don't forget to do an oil change before racing against
other is sport mode!


New,
SRT Tomahawk S VGT: 1006 hp

Now,
2872 km later, the engine is down to 983hp
Fuel: Bad - red
engine: Excellent - green
Body: Excellent - green

Since most of you guys are spending more time playing this game than me, if would be fun if someone
could built a chart about it.

 

[Grimm6Jack]

You need to change the oil between 300-600km before it goes "bad". That's it. Engine and Body last a lot of kms before you need to "fix" them.

 

[mary ann]

You need to change the oil between 300-600km before it goes "bad". That's it. Engine and Body last a lot of kms before you need to "fix" them.

Thanks, but I was thinking about an old trick from GT6.

Exemple: In GT6 the GSX-R4 was 490 PP, with lots of mileage the power would go down till I was able to use it in 300 PP online races. I was destroying the competition with it!

If someone have interest in it, here's the thread

GT6 – Oil, Engine, and High Mileage HP Deterioration Guide

GT6 – Oil, Engine, and High Mileage HP Deterioration Guide Introduction: There are three indicator lights in the GT Auto menu: an oil light a body rigidity light an engine light These three indicators attempt to help inform you about aspects of deterioration: the break down of the oil, the...

www.gtplanet.net

 

[LeGeNd-1]

Yes, I was wondering about this too. But the game is only out for a while so most people wouldn't have time to drive that much to test it.

The weird thing is a used car, even with high mileage, doesn't seem to need an oil change immediately. My R34 that I bought with 6,000 kms on it still has a green oil light and has no power increase from oil change. I haven't tried engine rebuild ($$$) but the engine light is green too. Same with chassis light.

Also, unlike GT5/6, an oil change on a new car doesn't bring a 5% HP boost anymore.

My questions:
1) How many km does it take for an engine to need a rebuild?
2) Is there a permanent power loss at high kms that isn't restored with engine rebuild (in GT5 it was above 12,000 km IIRC)?
3) Does buying a New Engine from Tuning Shop reset the mileage counter and performance loss (not just remove permanent tuning parts)? Also some cars doesn't have this available (GT86 Gr.B is one). Do we just buy a new car then?
4) Same questions 1-3 but for chassis.
5) Does buying Improve Chassis Rigidity help prolong the deterioration?
6) Does the km in UCD/LD behave the same as km put on by ourselves?
7) Does online km behave the same as offline km?

Personally, I've never been a fan of this whole mileage wear thing. Just an unnecessary layer of complication to keep track of if you want to keep your cars perfect. Not to mention the PP exploit mentioned above. The expensive rebuild/new engine/new chassis costs with expensive cars also doesn't help with the already painful grinding problem.

 

[wasenhorn]

I let it run for about a day or two without the auto oil/engine change in every 12 hours, and it has 956 hp now (bad oil, worn engine, worn body rigidity), 50hp or 4.97% down from the original output. Oil change brought it back to 979 hp (27hp or 2.68% down). After I got the figure from bad oil/engine/body, I'm going to run a new script which records the horsepower every 102.5km, and the oil/engine/body status every 1,025km.

edit: it's taking really long time. 950hp bad oil, worn engine, worn body rigidity. 56hp or 5.56% down. another oil change brought it back to 973hp (-33hp or -3.28%).

edit2: 940hp (-66hp or -6.56%) with bad oil, bad engine, bad body. not sure whether this is the lowest possible or not.

• oil change brought it back to 962hp (-44hp or -4.37%)
• engine overhaul brought it back to 1001hp (-5hp or -0.49%)
• body rigidity doesn't make any change

so there is permanent hp loss for high mileage cars (this particular tomahawk s had ~29,000km on its odometer), but not as severe as oil/engine deteriorations. it also seems tomhawk s (on script with auto tranny) had relatively low engine oil/deterioration rate, compare to manually driven cars with manual transmissions (thus using more RPMs).

 

[Yard_Sale]

So it seems that lost power is not completely recouped with an oil change?

 

[wasenhorn]

So it seems that lost power is not completely recouped with an oil change?

It will be completely recouped if you have a fresh engine. Otherwise, you need to change the engine as well. Though the speed of engine deterioration is far slower than oil deterioration, especially for the Tomahawk on script (probably because it uses auto tranny). It took several thousands of km to have it degraded one step (excellent/normal/worn/bad), but oil went bad in just a few hundred km.

 

[Bojador]

Thanks, but I was thinking about an old trick from GT6.

Exemple: In GT6 the GSX-R4 was 490 PP, with lots of mileage the power would go down till I was able to use it in 300 PP online races. I was destroying the competition with it!

If someone have interest in it, here's the thread

GT6 – Oil, Engine, and High Mileage HP Deterioration Guide

GT6 – Oil, Engine, and High Mileage HP Deterioration Guide Introduction: There are three indicator lights in the GT Auto menu: an oil light a body rigidity light an engine light These three indicators attempt to help inform you about aspects of deterioration: the break down of the oil, the...

www.gtplanet.net

That brings up the question of what will happen if BoP is applied? Is it applied according to max stats of the car, based on the updated stats or doesn’t apply at all if you go below the bop thresholds?

 

[xMAXIx79]

From the impression I have of the BoP so far, the vehicle's parameters are set to values specified for the vehicle. Whether now power loss due to bad oil is taken into account.. well I don't think so.

 

[LeGeNd-1]

It seems like mileage in used car dealer isn't counted the same as mileage driven by ourselves in terms of engine wear.

Just bought the BMW CSL '71 @ 22,000 km.
Stock power - 177
After oil change - 177
After engine overhaul - 177
Bought new engine - 177

Not sure if bug or intended, but I welcome it. Less money needed for restoring used cars (esp the Legend cars).

I let it run for about a day or two without the auto oil/engine change in every 12 hours, and it has 956 hp now (bad oil, worn engine, worn body rigidity), 50hp or 4.97% down from the original output. Oil change brought it back to 979 hp (27hp or 2.68% down). After I got the figure from bad oil/engine/body, I'm going to run a new script which records the horsepower every 102.5km, and the oil/engine/body status every 1,025km.

edit: it's taking really long time. 950hp bad oil, worn engine, worn body rigidity. 56hp or 5.56% down. another oil change brought it back to 973hp (-33hp or -3.28%).

edit2: 940hp (-66hp or -6.56%) with bad oil, bad engine, bad body. not sure whether this is the lowest possible or not.

• oil change brought it back to 962hp (-44hp or -4.37%)
• engine overhaul brought it back to 1001hp (-5hp or -0.49%)
• body rigidity doesn't make any change

so there is permanent hp loss for high mileage cars (this particular tomahawk s had ~29,000km on its odometer), but not as severe as oil/engine deteriorations. it also seems tomhawk s (on script with auto tranny) had relatively low engine oil/deterioration rate, compare to manually driven cars with manual transmissions (thus using more RPMs).

Body rigidity doesn't change - so the restore function doesn't turn it back from bad to excellent? Or you bought the rigidity improvement upgrade and it doesn't change the status?

Second point on manual cars - did you actually test this? I doubt PD would go to such lengths to take into account the engine rpm. Besides the Tomahawk running on script also bounces a lot on the limiter at top speed no?

 

[wasenhorn]

It seems like mileage in used car dealer isn't counted the same as mileage driven by ourselves in terms of engine wear.

Just bought the BMW CSL '71 @ 22,000 km.
Stock power - 177
After oil change - 177
After engine overhaul - 177
Bought new engine - 177

Not sure if bug or intended, but I welcome it. Less money needed for restoring used cars (esp the Legend cars).


Body rigidity doesn't change - so the restore function doesn't turn it back from bad to excellent? Or you bought the rigidity improvement upgrade and it doesn't change the status?

Second point on manual cars - did you actually test this? I doubt PD would go to such lengths to take into account the engine rpm. Besides the Tomahawk running on script also bounces a lot on the limiter at top speed no?

I mean it doesn't make any change on horsepower. Tomahawk doesn't even have the body rigidity upgrade option available. The 5 hp loss exists even when all 3 conditions are excellent. However, the PP rating is affected by the loss of power due to the high mileage. Both the new car and the old one have the exact same PP rating on the default setting.

For manual cars, no I haven't tested it. But it takes very long time to degrade the engine status of the Tomahawk to 'normal' (several thousands km needed), unlike the car I manually drove (none of them had >1,000km but I have several cars with 'normal' status). There is a difference, just unsure about the cause. Also no. The script run doesn't go anywhere close to the top speed, and you can't hit the limiter with the auto transmission as it will shift sooner.

 

[Chevy Heavy]

I mean it doesn't make any change on horsepower. Tomahawk doesn't even have the body rigidity upgrade option available.

Yes, it does. I've been rubber-banding the Pan-Am BMB race with the Tomahawk S and have had to rebuild the engine and restore rigidity two or three times. Just checked and mine has 1004 hp after 12,000 miles. However, I don't let anything get to the level that it's worn. So I would say with regular oil changes and proper maintenance you shouldn't see a massive decrease in horsepower. Kinda like in real life. I'll have to remember to check and see if I get those missing 2 hp back next time I do an overhaul.

 

[Pizzicato1985]

Yeah, about every 2hr of Pan-Am (or when the max hp is like 998) you should probably change the oil. Even catching it in good/normal I've seen a maximum power drop from 1006 to 1005. Overhaul Engine and chassis rigidity every 10-12hr. So pretty much every 5 oil changes it's a good idea to overhaul the engine/chassis. Cost of doing business

 

[MonoTonouS]

I have bought car''s from the ucd with "good" , engine, body and oil. Meaning it was yellow . I think it was the MKIV Supra.
The UCD has both a offline and online portion . Almsot all cafe books that require you to buy cars dump the car's in the UCD. The supra i bought was from this update, not the online one.

 

[Chevy Heavy]

BTW, anyone using the Tomahawk S to grind is welcome to use my Daytona Moneymaker livery. It's pretty much self-explanatory. It's posted under Chevy_Heavy.

 

[MonoTonouS]

You know, I find those money livers super stupid, but then again I painted my shelby cobra S/C gold chrome in GTS with a dollar sign as the racing number for that blue moon bay race that racked up money.

 

[LeGeNd-1]

I mean it doesn't make any change on horsepower. Tomahawk doesn't even have the body rigidity upgrade option available. The 5 hp loss exists even when all 3 conditions are excellent. However, the PP rating is affected by the loss of power due to the high mileage. Both the new car and the old one have the exact same PP rating on the default setting.

For manual cars, no I haven't tested it. But it takes very long time to degrade the engine status of the Tomahawk to 'normal' (several thousands km needed), unlike the car I manually drove (none of them had >1,000km but I have several cars with 'normal' status). There is a difference, just unsure about the cause. Also no. The script run doesn't go anywhere close to the top speed, and you can't hit the limiter with the auto transmission as it will shift sooner.

Body rigidity deterioration doesn't show up as HP loss. You just have to drive it and feel it. Easier said than done of course because the effects are tiny over long distances and placebo effect can cloud judgment.

Yes, I didn't check before if the Tomahawk rigidity upgrade is available or not. My bad on that one.

Fair enough on AT vs MT. I haven't driven any manual car that much yet. This makes it even more annoying if true.

I guess roughly the numbers are similar to GT5 then:
Oil starts to go bad after 300 km or so.
Engine rebuild starts to be needed around 5,000 km or so (can recover max power).
Permanent engine power loss starts around 12,000 km or so (cannot recover even with rebuild).
Banging on rpm limiter can shorten distances at which the above occurs.

Just one more question left for me - can a new engine recover max power? Can't test with Tomahawk because it doesn't have this option.

 

[wasenhorn]

Yes, it does. I've been rubber-banding the Pan-Am BMB race with the Tomahawk S and have had to rebuild the engine and restore rigidity two or three times. Just checked and mine has 1004 hp after 12,000 miles. However, I don't let anything get to the level that it's worn. So I would say with regular oil changes and proper maintenance you shouldn't see a massive decrease in horsepower. Kinda like in real life. I'll have to remember to check and see if I get those missing 2 hp back next time I do an overhaul.

No 'it' doesn't. 'it' here refers the body rigidity restoration.

 

[Chevy Heavy]

No 'it' doesn't. 'it' here refers the body rigidity restoration.

Sorry if you misunderstood, but I was referring to the statement that you said the rigidity option wasn't available.

 

[wasenhorn]

Sorry if you misunderstood, but I was referring to the statement that you said the rigidity option wasn't available.

Again, you misunderstood.

• I mean it doesn't make any change on horsepower.: 'it' refers the 'body rigidty restoration' which is available on the GT auto, and it doesn't affect the horsepower.
• Tomahawk doesn't even have the body rigidity upgrade option available.: this line is talking about the 'body rigidity upgrade' (on the tuning shop) which is not available.

 

[equalitus]

Hello everyone and sorry if this info was posted before.

I've been using the same car only for grinding (money) and never did an oil change.
The car was getting slower, so I remember about an old threat in this forum from an older gt game.

If this is the same for every cars, well don't forget to do an oil change before racing against
other is sport mode!


New,
SRT Tomahawk S VGT: 1006 hp

Now,
2872 km later, the engine is down to 983hp
Fuel: Bad - red
engine: Excellent - green
Body: Excellent - green

Since most of you guys are spending more time playing this game than me, if would be fun if someone
could built a chart about it.

In GT4/GT5/GT6 the main HP reduction happened before 17000km. Some of the HP loss was permanent, but most could be fixed by costly reparation in GT auto.
Have anyone driven a high level HP car more than 17000km without changing oil or engine overhaul?

 

[Grimm6Jack]

After having 35.000km on my Tomahawk S, I noticed (way before 35.000, more like about 12.000 when I did my first engine and chassis restoration in GT Auto) that you can no longer have the max power, which for this car is 1.021cv. I only get now 1.015cv.

So, basically, after about ~50.000 or so, it's probably better to just buy a new engine and chassis. However, those cost almost the same as the car itself... Might as well buy a new one tbh.

 

[equalitus]

After having 35.000km on my Tomahawk S, I noticed (way before 35.000, more like about 12.000 when I did my first engine and chassis restoration in GT Auto) that you can no longer have the max power, which for this car is 1.021cv. I only get now 1.015cv.

So, basically, after about ~50.000 or so, it's probably better to just buy a new engine and chassis. However, those cost almost the same as the car itself... Might as well buy a new one tbh.

By my arithmetic guesstimate the 1021 hp to 1015hp means approximately 0.5% hp reduction. Please correct my calculations if necessary! But since you did engine restoration at 12.000km the total power loss could be somewhat more than 0.5% power reduction.

 

[Grimm6Jack]

By my arithmetic guesstimate the 1021 hp to 1015hp means approximately 0.5% hp reduction. Please correct my calculations if necessary! But since you did engine restoration at 12.000km the total power loss could be somewhat more than 0.5% power reduction.

I've done 3 engine and 3 chassis restorations (I always do both together, it's only 30.000 extra for the chassis and 100.000 for the engine) so far.
On the first I actually lost 1cv, the car had 1.020cv after the first engine restoration. I can't remember how much it had exactly on the 2nd but it was below 1.020 already.

So basically, you start to permanently get hp loss after about 12.000km... Or rather, after your engine starts to get the orange colour in gt auto.

I have never let my engine reach "bad" status.