Mission 14 - Seattle Superbird
- Thread starter Swift
- 118 comments
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AMG.
Staff Emeritus
- 3,116
- NL, Leiden
- GTP_AMG
3 lap battles Mission 14 Seattle Superbird
I just cant let these writeups go astray, so I'll try to save as many of them as I can.
AMG_SLK
Videos
http://www.davidanderson.org.uk/gt4_videos.htm#mission
Courtesy of Daan and Famine
I just cant let these writeups go astray, so I'll try to save as many of them as I can.
AMG_SLK
Videos
http://www.davidanderson.org.uk/gt4_videos.htm#mission
Courtesy of Daan and Famine
Der Alta
stan394
Rockhound18
wfoohsee
flerbizki
Fortis
Last edited by a moderator:
- 958
- Manila
- meister_dan
One important message:
"CAR HAS LOUSY BRAKES!!!!"
With that out of the way just pass the cars until you make it to second place just as the second lap starts.. If you see in the splits that your losing time to the Buick, then restart.
"CAR HAS LOUSY BRAKES!!!!"
With that out of the way just pass the cars until you make it to second place just as the second lap starts.. If you see in the splits that your losing time to the Buick, then restart.
- 30
I'm really struggleing on this. I've read all of the posts above. I seem to be right on target or better through the first lap. I'm in 2nd before the 1st lap is over, but I never really seem to gain on the lead car much after that. The best I can do is 2 sec. behind.
I just watched Daan's video and I seem to be in better shape exiting the 1st lap, but the seconds don't seem to match up. I can pass the 1st car lower on the hill section, but when the time flashes I'm very lucky if I'm in the 5 sec. range. I usually take the turn right too....
Thanks
I just watched Daan's video and I seem to be in better shape exiting the 1st lap, but the seconds don't seem to match up. I can pass the 1st car lower on the hill section, but when the time flashes I'm very lucky if I'm in the 5 sec. range. I usually take the turn right too....
Thanks
- 4,822
- Concord, CA
- kylehnat
Three things that I think are key: 1)You have to brake in straight lines. 2)You have to drive three very clean laps; if you get stuck behind someone, start over. And 3)The Buick is very slow through the final sector. If you find a quick way through the chicane by the Kingdome and the chicane leading onto the front straight, that's how you will make up most of the time on the Buick. You musn't lose this time on the rest of the lap though.
Keep at it. This was the last 3 lap battle I passed, and is arguably the hardest.
Keep at it. This was the last 3 lap battle I passed, and is arguably the hardest.
This mission is very difficult because the car doesn't cooperate. It has lousy brakes and it can't compare in speed with Buick Special Edition '62. After getting used to this car (you have to break very early and prevent losing speed as much as possible), you can pass this mission between 1 and 2 hours. During the middle of the final lap, you will cath the Buick, so relax and prevent Buick from acquiring its top speed. On the final curve, you can make up a lot of time if you pass appropiately at +65mph, but you run the chance of getting a penalty. I had a nice advantage, and prefer to slow down a bit at this curve during the final lap (after all, it is the same to win by -0.354s like by -0.800s)
As a reference, of how well you're doing, here I my Check Point Times:
0 lap Get ahead of Car 6 a little before the first checkpoint
______ +5.9 Pass Car 5 and 4 during the curves before the long straight
______ +5.3
1st lap +5.1 Get ahead of Stingray during the first hairpin
______ +3.7
______ +3.4
2nd lap +2.0
______ - 0.5 Pass Buick Special Edition during the set of corner curves
______ - 0.6 Prevent Buick from passing Plymouth by obstructing it.
3rd lap - 0.354 Relax a little to don't blow it all.
AI Time: 4'04.477
My Time: 4'04.123
As a reference, of how well you're doing, here I my Check Point Times:0 lap Get ahead of Car 6 a little before the first checkpoint
______ +5.9 Pass Car 5 and 4 during the curves before the long straight
______ +5.3
1st lap +5.1 Get ahead of Stingray during the first hairpin
______ +3.7
______ +3.4
2nd lap +2.0
______ - 0.5 Pass Buick Special Edition during the set of corner curves
______ - 0.6 Prevent Buick from passing Plymouth by obstructing it.
3rd lap - 0.354 Relax a little to don't blow it all.
AI Time: 4'04.477
My Time: 4'04.123
🤬 
- 5,969
- Finland
I took a new try on this today, and now I'm confident that this isn't a hard mission. I could have passed the Buick in the left-hand hairpin before the back straight on the second lap but I blew it and took a penalty. Still, I passed him before the start/finish straight on the same lap.
The finishing time was 6'02.478.
The finishing time was 6'02.478.
- 1,256
yep the car has plennty of power low down so there's no need to drop to second anywhere other than the hairpin, even then you could stay in 3rd. At low revs it sounds like it has a flat tyre and doesn't feel as though it's picking up pace, but it is and staying in 3rd will also save time on the gear changes.
I did it last night and nailed it on the 4th or 5th go, in fact I passed the buick on the second lap and thought the race was over after crossing the finish line and almost got a 5sec penalty when I brushed the wall!
I did it last night and nailed it on the 4th or 5th go, in fact I passed the buick on the second lap and thought the race was over after crossing the finish line and almost got a 5sec penalty when I brushed the wall!
- 19,624
- Alabamamania
This was one of the toughest for me to pass, but I managed to complete it yesterday. Here's what I discovered:
1) Dude, somebody stole my brakes!
This car is heavy, it's old...what did you expect? Just brake about 50% sooner than expected. I found that the first set of overhead traffic lights you go under (it's the long black wire on poles across the width of the track) are an excellent braking point for the end of the start/finish straight.
As for the "jumps" or "The Seattle Staircase", just brake hard at the flat part before the final ascent which leads to the blind, 90-degree right-hander. Don't wait until you're already slightly uphill to brake or you'll say hello to the Armco.
For the chicane before the Start/Finish line, brake hard, to set yourself up for both runs, to get maximum speed and minimum damage. You can't take it as fast as the AI thinks it can take it...take note of how many times it messes up that section.
This should give you an idea for the other braking points. Just brake sooner than expected, and when you're done braking...
2) Don't underestimate the power of lift-throttle oversteer.
The Superbird is set-up for more understeer and oversteer, but it will gently twist the rear end of the car into the turns. This helps a lot because the car won't turn and it won't brake too well. This car can pointed in the right direction only when you're not on the throttle.
Use the throttle carefully when accelerating in a corner, because it understeers. Again, let the rear position the front of the car, then gun it. It won't spin out, fishtail, or get loose with all the traction control devices engaged.
3) The curbs are your friends...
Curbs destroy the handling of tightly-sprung, short-stroke suspensions (especially in the case mid-engined cars). But not with the Superbird! The curbs are great for aiming your car just how you want it, both on corner entry and curbing on corner exits. Say hello to the curbs, they are good friends with the Superbird.
4) ...But the walls are your enemies (well, except when they take out the AI).
It's quite obvious; don't hit the walls, and you'll pass this mission. Easier said than done, but if you drive clean, you'll do well. It just might take you 10-12 tries to get used to the car.
5) Avoid using the parking/emergency brake to aid in turning the car.
It works for many FR cars, but not as well with this one. You'll go faster and handle better using the lift-throttle oversteer method described above in Point 2. Avoid the E-brake, unless you know of a better way.
6) Don't drive like a madman to pass the AI.
The AI isn't very good here with those other 4 cars. Let them run wide, hit the walls. Drive defensively, rather than offensively, at times where you have to pass the non-Buicks. The Buick is another matter; it can't handle, but it's very fast on the straights. So don't worry if it dusts you, you can catch up a lot on it into and exiting the corners using the methods I described above.
Of course, a kamikaze move might work for passing the Buick in the last corner, but use your best judgement. Driving at 80-90% will do the trick. Trying at 100-110% will just frustrate you. Quite the clever mission test....
1) Dude, somebody stole my brakes!
This car is heavy, it's old...what did you expect? Just brake about 50% sooner than expected. I found that the first set of overhead traffic lights you go under (it's the long black wire on poles across the width of the track) are an excellent braking point for the end of the start/finish straight.
As for the "jumps" or "The Seattle Staircase", just brake hard at the flat part before the final ascent which leads to the blind, 90-degree right-hander. Don't wait until you're already slightly uphill to brake or you'll say hello to the Armco.
For the chicane before the Start/Finish line, brake hard, to set yourself up for both runs, to get maximum speed and minimum damage. You can't take it as fast as the AI thinks it can take it...take note of how many times it messes up that section.
This should give you an idea for the other braking points. Just brake sooner than expected, and when you're done braking...
2) Don't underestimate the power of lift-throttle oversteer.
The Superbird is set-up for more understeer and oversteer, but it will gently twist the rear end of the car into the turns. This helps a lot because the car won't turn and it won't brake too well. This car can pointed in the right direction only when you're not on the throttle.
Use the throttle carefully when accelerating in a corner, because it understeers. Again, let the rear position the front of the car, then gun it. It won't spin out, fishtail, or get loose with all the traction control devices engaged.
3) The curbs are your friends...
Curbs destroy the handling of tightly-sprung, short-stroke suspensions (especially in the case mid-engined cars). But not with the Superbird! The curbs are great for aiming your car just how you want it, both on corner entry and curbing on corner exits. Say hello to the curbs, they are good friends with the Superbird.
4) ...But the walls are your enemies (well, except when they take out the AI).
It's quite obvious; don't hit the walls, and you'll pass this mission. Easier said than done, but if you drive clean, you'll do well. It just might take you 10-12 tries to get used to the car.
5) Avoid using the parking/emergency brake to aid in turning the car.
It works for many FR cars, but not as well with this one. You'll go faster and handle better using the lift-throttle oversteer method described above in Point 2. Avoid the E-brake, unless you know of a better way.
6) Don't drive like a madman to pass the AI.
The AI isn't very good here with those other 4 cars. Let them run wide, hit the walls. Drive defensively, rather than offensively, at times where you have to pass the non-Buicks. The Buick is another matter; it can't handle, but it's very fast on the straights. So don't worry if it dusts you, you can catch up a lot on it into and exiting the corners using the methods I described above.
Of course, a kamikaze move might work for passing the Buick in the last corner, but use your best judgement. Driving at 80-90% will do the trick. Trying at 100-110% will just frustrate you. Quite the clever mission test....
- 250
- BajaJohn/GTP_TheCheef
I hate the handling of this stupid car. Its like driving a freekin` boat! I was right beside em going into the last two turns on the third lap when i was passing up the inside and he came in on me and stuck me into the wall giving me a 5 second penalty! Anger...
hahahaha. I just had the sweetest run on this test. won with a 6:02.274 - by nearly *eight seconds*. I drove a nice first two laps and had already caught the Buick at the end of the second lap; I absolutely hate the final chicane, though, so I'd started driving it conservatively and hoping to get back the time through the rest of the test. So we were side by side going under the sign just before the chicane, I braked (that's what I mean by conservative :>) and he shot a half a car length ahead - but he didn't get all the way past me. I took the first left, swung the car back right and hit the gas, we were still side by side and he had utterly nowhere to go and smashed spectacularly into the wall of the right. I saw him in my rear view making a hash of getting back into the race too. After that he was five seconds behind me crossing the start line, so I just drove a nice conservative final lap (took the chicane *very* carefully :>) and never even saw him in the rear view. Nice pressure-free way to win! 
- 9
I have a serious problem with this mission. I followed all the tips and advices that you guys gave but nothing helps. I've done all the previous driving missions and passed'em with a few trys but this one, no matter how much I try, I have no improvements. I can easily get to 2nd place by the beginning of the 3rd lap and I can hold this position but the Buick Special pulls away so fast that I can't catch up at all. Every lap, it gains 1 second on me which is impossible for me to catch up. By the time the third lap begins, I'm behind him 7 seconds and 8 seconds by the time the race ends. I've tried this almost 30 times already and I've made no improvements. I have never even got close to the Special at all and the closest I ever get to it is 5 seconds which is at the beginning of the race.
- 5,064
- Panama City, FL
KurementoX
Hard to swallow, but probably you should slow down sooner. If you brake late, you come out of the turn slower, which costs you on the whole straight. Late braking is not fast. You gain nothing (and lose everything) by trying to "preserve" speed till the last possible instant. Late braking is a passing maneuver, not a performance trick. Slow down in time to take the turn comfortably, and accelerate out of it. If you're struggling to even make the turn, then you're braking too late. Do NOT try to trail-brake this car. It just won't do it. With so much body roll, half your brakes are doing nothing, and the other half are overloaded, and the car goes even more unstable than it was to begin with! Exit speed wins this mission (and 34) (and 18) (and all the others). Get it whoa'd in time for the turn, so you can use some throttle out of the turn. That's where you pick up speed (and time).
BTW, in my run of this mission, I almost caught the Buick as we turned under the freeway at the end of lap two, but he pulled away. I got him under the freeway after the first hairpin, went inside him on the left bend that comes out from under the freeway, before the jumps. Once in front, it's easy to stay there, he won't pass unless you screw up.
I just spent some time going from seeming like I fall farther and farther behind the Buick to beating the Mission. Here are the things I figured out I was doing wrong, in this order:
1. Stay in 3rd/4th gear. Car pulls away faster from every corner in 3rd than in 2nd with time wasted shifting. The car barely has enough traction to use all the power in 2nd anyway.
2. Turn in early. I figured out pretty quickly I needed to brake early, but I discovered since the car is so sluggish in steering response, I had to turn the wheel sooner than normal, really aiming hard for that apex right against the wall. Turning in way early in turn 3 alone shaved 2.5 seconds off my time, and I was even able to hit +5.4 once by the first checkpoint.
3. Some of the turns need to be taken as wide as possible. One really critical example is the final left-right chicane - get all the way over to the right in pit lane, and when you get to that sequence the narrow gap between the two walls suddenly opens up.
4. Once the Buick is in sight, discipline yourself to continue to brake early and turn early, instead of charging towards it and excessive speed and botching a turn. I had the Buick in sight by the first turn of the 2nd lap. I had to remind myself that I had almost 2 full laps to fill in a visual distance, and I had plenty of time to get there. If I didn't tell myself that I found myself botching turns and falling behind again.
5. Once you get close to it, don't hit the Buick. The Buick slows WAY down for all the turns, and it can catch you by surprise when you've caught up and you're approaching a turn and all of a sudden it slams on the brakes. You have to start being a little creative with the racing line, and you better pass the Buick in a turn because it pulls away from you in the straight line.
This Mission seemed harder than all the previous ones at first but at the end I felt it was easier than 13, and I spent less time on it.
1. Stay in 3rd/4th gear. Car pulls away faster from every corner in 3rd than in 2nd with time wasted shifting. The car barely has enough traction to use all the power in 2nd anyway.
2. Turn in early. I figured out pretty quickly I needed to brake early, but I discovered since the car is so sluggish in steering response, I had to turn the wheel sooner than normal, really aiming hard for that apex right against the wall. Turning in way early in turn 3 alone shaved 2.5 seconds off my time, and I was even able to hit +5.4 once by the first checkpoint.
3. Some of the turns need to be taken as wide as possible. One really critical example is the final left-right chicane - get all the way over to the right in pit lane, and when you get to that sequence the narrow gap between the two walls suddenly opens up.
4. Once the Buick is in sight, discipline yourself to continue to brake early and turn early, instead of charging towards it and excessive speed and botching a turn. I had the Buick in sight by the first turn of the 2nd lap. I had to remind myself that I had almost 2 full laps to fill in a visual distance, and I had plenty of time to get there. If I didn't tell myself that I found myself botching turns and falling behind again.
5. Once you get close to it, don't hit the Buick. The Buick slows WAY down for all the turns, and it can catch you by surprise when you've caught up and you're approaching a turn and all of a sudden it slams on the brakes. You have to start being a little creative with the racing line, and you better pass the Buick in a turn because it pulls away from you in the straight line.
This Mission seemed harder than all the previous ones at first but at the end I felt it was easier than 13, and I spent less time on it.
- 9
Well I attempted it again and meraculously I actually won but it was really really close and some luck involved. I did the usual and passed all the cars by the middle of the second lap and I dont' know what I did this time but I actually caught up with him 2 seconds in front of me by the middle section in the 3rd lap. Then I accidently hit him while turning into the straight so I got a 5 second penalty, I thought I was done but I still played on and I caught back up to him in the last turn before the chicane so I was right next to him and I pushed him into the wallwhile turning the chicane and I just stayed right in front of him making sure that he doenst' overtake me and I won. I must say, That is seriously one hard mission.
- 30
i read at the beginning that the car has lousy brakes, its not the brakes thats lousy, its that DAMN SUSPENSION!!!!, the stroke for these suspension are enough high to gives me problem when accel, braking and turning.
- 24,344
- Midlantic Area
- GTP_Duke
I hate to sound like sour grapes, but having been around since the mid-'60s myself, I've driven a lot of cars from this vintage. PD has definitely screwed up the Superbird beyond all recognition. In a perverse way it's like the MGF in one of the early license tests - once it gets into a slide, no amount of control input will do anything until it kills enough speed. Even direct opposite control inputs have the same effect - braking causes understeer, but so does acceleration. It's like the MGF in that test - once the back end swings out, countersteering has no effect. Transferring weight to the back doesn't firm it up, and transferring weight to the front has no effect either. You just have to wait it out, and by then it's too late.
I've driven a large number of heavy '60s American iron IRL, and nothing, not even a plain jane Charger, handles as badly as that Superbird does. It's a crime.
Yes, these old cars have tons of suspension travel, minimal damping, and lots of body motion. But normally you can use that to pitch the car around the way you want to, and you can soak up bumps like nothing. PD's mandatory driver's "aids" (*bitter sardonic laughter here*) have just made the Superbird obstinate and unforgiving.
I've driven a large number of heavy '60s American iron IRL, and nothing, not even a plain jane Charger, handles as badly as that Superbird does. It's a crime.
Yes, these old cars have tons of suspension travel, minimal damping, and lots of body motion. But normally you can use that to pitch the car around the way you want to, and you can soak up bumps like nothing. PD's mandatory driver's "aids" (*bitter sardonic laughter here*) have just made the Superbird obstinate and unforgiving.
- 4,822
- Concord, CA
- kylehnat
That's probably the worst part about this mission. It's almost impossible to put in three perfect laps at Seattle with the Superbird, but little, easily-corrected mistakes are amplified 10-fold with the traction control and ASM (which were not around in the 60'sDuke
) destroying all momentum. If i remember, this mission was the 2nd to last one I finished (M34 being the last, of course).
- 4,822
- Concord, CA
- kylehnat
MISSION 14
Here's a map of the circuit for this mission, with the gears listed for each corner, and brake zones in yellow.
Keys:
-Brake about two days early.
-Don't accelerate too quickly out of tight corners, as this will induce crippling understeer.
-The final chicane can make or break the mission. Practice this until you can get it right.
Disclaimer: This is how I drive the mission. I have a conservative, smooth driving style, so your braking tendencies may not match, but it should give you some idea of where to brake, and how much. Throttle-lifts are NOT shown, but it's not hard to figure out when you should lift. The time reference is for the NTSC version only.
Here's a map of the circuit for this mission, with the gears listed for each corner, and brake zones in yellow.
Keys:
-Brake about two days early.
-Don't accelerate too quickly out of tight corners, as this will induce crippling understeer.
-The final chicane can make or break the mission. Practice this until you can get it right.
Disclaimer: This is how I drive the mission. I have a conservative, smooth driving style, so your braking tendencies may not match, but it should give you some idea of where to brake, and how much. Throttle-lifts are NOT shown, but it's not hard to figure out when you should lift. The time reference is for the NTSC version only.
- 124
- Sabarocca
I just passed it this morning, and one thing that particularly helped a lot is that, I stayed in 3rd on the 2 corners after the uphill jumps section.
I found that out after I did some practice with my mint Superbird that sits on my garage, on the same track, and 3rd is what flashes on those 2 corners. And yes, It somehow works too on the DM's Superbird, which feels much softer.
Another important thing is to brake sufficiently before a turn, drop the gears, turn in, then mash on the pedal for full corner exit speed. Also, be smooth and consistent on those 3 laps. Lastly, try not to look at the split times too much, as it will further intimidates you.
I found that out after I did some practice with my mint Superbird that sits on my garage, on the same track, and 3rd is what flashes on those 2 corners. And yes, It somehow works too on the DM's Superbird, which feels much softer.
Another important thing is to brake sufficiently before a turn, drop the gears, turn in, then mash on the pedal for full corner exit speed. Also, be smooth and consistent on those 3 laps. Lastly, try not to look at the split times too much, as it will further intimidates you.
