More 'Advanced' events? ie NO Catch-up Effect

[OzOldTimer]

Firstly, I would like to thank Ahmed Al Azmi for requesting an Expert event with no catch up compensation and Kazunori Yamauchi for granting his request.I have been thoroughly enjoying the additional challenge this has added to the game even though it has meant I don't finish as highly as I usually do. Now that we have had some time to evaluate the difference I thought it would be a good time to canvas other's opinions. As I see it the Pros and Cons are as follows:
Pros
* The cars handling remains the same and times are consistent with laps run in free run mode.
* If a mistake is made, the result is more realisitic with no magic to assist with catching cars in front.
* Racing is cleaner because people soon realise that the only way to do well is to race as fast as their skill allows.
* The lack of equalisation means the best players are at the front and are not impeded.
Cons
* The fields are much more spread out during the course of the race and the racing is not as close.
* The gap in skills between players is clearly evident and so it is more difficult to find a good contest.
* Being pushed off the track effectively eliminates any chance of finishing at the front of the pack.
* Less people will be attracted to this type of event because it is too hard.
This is not meant to be an exhaustive list but rather a preamble to encourage discussion from others. I would like this type of event to become a regular feature of the Expert online events. If there is enough positive feedback, then hopefully PD will take note and continue to provide us with this extra challenge in the game. I am mirroring this thread on other GT forums in the hope of getting the community to discuss this and build some momentum in gaining PD's attention.

 

[nasanu]

* Less people will be attracted to this type of event because it is too hard.

People still played every other online racer. You realise that GT is the ONLY racer that has RBE in effect online?

Remember that people are freely selecting Professional. Why would they do this if they do not want to be challenged?

Adding catchup to GT online is a bewildering error of judgment by PD. Its inclusion is comical and needs to be canned asap.

 

[Paulie]

RIP RBE. So long, good bye, good riddens, auf wiedershen (?spelling?), ciao, au revoir, get lost, nick off, no thanks, sounds interesting......NOT.

But seriously, the event has never been better with RBE now gone, too bad all the soft cores have already quit GT5 and are missing out.

 

[Daniel_Elessar]

it's thrue that some people are just faster than you but even i got myself challenged and i'm far from real good. i just have battles for 4-9 place and it's FUN! not just to win but actually race and have good fights.

it is that the field is spread out on the track, and i have no clue if someone lapped someone before and what did it do? i imangine that the player in last place will get a warning saying faster people are behind and need to back off the racing line and let them pass for being the leaders of the race.
But what if they won't do that? i know the races need to be longer then 5 laps to get to this point but what if this scenario is there?

 

[Paulie]

it's thrue that some people are just faster than you but even i got myself challenged and i'm far from real good. i just have battles for 4-9 place and it's FUN! not just to win but actually race and have good fights.

it is that the field is spread out on the track, and i have no clue if someone lapped someone before and what did it do? i imangine that the player in last place will get a warning saying faster people are behind and need to back off the racing line and let them pass for being the leaders of the race.
But what if they won't do that? i know the races need to be longer then 5 laps to get to this point but what if this scenario is there?

Anyone who has been lapped starts ghosting, making it impossible for contact. I hope when private rooms come we have the option of turning off ghosting for realism but with all the crash kids out it's effective.

 

[bicycleshorts]

I have found that racing without RBE is a very good challenge, however, it only really works well if you can find people of the same skill level as you. Too often I found myself 10 seconds ahead with no competition effectively in a free run situation. Or the opposite if you're punted off on the first corner or when trying to overtake someone.

I think RBE would work well in a stock race - such as the F430/GTR/Z06 race a while back. That would be immense fun with no RBE since it would really be down to skill and not the tune/car.

In summary: RBE for some events and perhaps a few "more expert" races for when you fancy a change. 50:50 would probably be the perfect ratio in my mind.

 

[P3nT4gR4m]

+1

I like pwning the crap out a field of strangers in 'online mutliplayer freerun' but I also enjoy the frenetic overtaking miasma that is an RBE race.

I know for a fact I can play RBE, non-stop, for a whole weekend but smug as hell 50second pwnage wears thin pretty quick.

Felt good when I broke the 1min lead mark tho

 

[DTM]

great poll 👍 and the results speaks for them self so far.

let the best man win!

 

[Paulie]

I have found that racing without RBE is a very good challenge, however, it only really works well if you can find people of the same skill level as you. Too often I found myself 10 seconds ahead with no competition effectively in a free run situation.

If you're opening up that kind of lead then there's a good chance the people you're racing are of a low skill level, and if that's true then most of these guys are punters anyway so why would you want RBE letting the punters catching up to and taking you out?

+1

I like pwning the crap out a field of strangers in 'online mutliplayer freerun' but I also enjoy the frenetic overtaking miasma that is an RBE race.

I know for a fact I can play RBE, non-stop, for a whole weekend but smug as hell 50second pwnage wears thin pretty quick.

Felt good when I broke the 1min lead mark tho

You need to race some GTP'ers in the RWD Custom Event if you're making that kind of lead.

 

[OzOldTimer]

I realy think the RBE should be off in all expert races. The Intermediat level should be in pro mode but with RBE, and then the beginner in standard mode

I think this is one of the best ideas I have seen and underlines the importance of this feature of the game. The absence of RBE makes Expert events more attractive to the better players of the game and ensures that only players with good skills can compete at this level. I am not trying to put forward an elitist view but rather point out that Expert events should be for experts. Giving an advantage to casual or inexperienced players because they are two seconds slower than somebody in front is not only unfair but poor marketing in my view.
The proposal put forward by Marchbrown restores fairness to the Expert events but still provides plenty of opportunites to race for casual or inexperienced players. I also feel that this type of setup would provide a very effective training path for new players and prolong their interest in the game.

 

[Paulie]

I think this is one of the best ideas I have seen and underlines the importance of this feature of the game. The absence of RBE makes Expert events more attractive to the better players of the game and ensures that only players with good skills can compete at this level. I am not trying to put forward an elitist view but rather point out that Expert events should be for experts. Giving an advantage to casual or inexperienced players because they are two seconds slower than somebody in front is not only unfair but poor marketing in my view.
The proposal put forward by Marchbrown restores fairness to the Expert events but still provides plenty of opportunites to race for casual or inexperienced players. I also feel that this type of setup would provide a very effective training path for new players and prolong their interest in the game.

That is a really good idea. Cheers to Marchbrown.

 

[Daniel_Elessar]

Anyone who has been lapped starts ghosting, making it impossible for contact. I hope when private rooms come we have the option of turning off ghosting for realism but with all the crash kids out it's effective.

thnx,
i didn't expirience it yet, for private rooms it could be turn of but now in the öpen"rooms... seeing that punters well do there work if you are the leader and last lap etc....

 

[H20HYBRID_GT]

I can't believe this thread has only 11 posts yet.
Agree with nasanu 100% though... RBE for online racing makes no sense at all!

 

[Kryz11]

I voted make all, because it does not say Split 50/50
I think the effect should be off for LONG endurance racing. Or 20+ racing.

It should be on when we have 3-5 racing but not for all races.

 

[RussRobit]

RBE off for expert races and optional in private rooms. If a newbie has no chance to even stay on the same lap in any race, he will lose interest pretty quick. PD makes games for profit and has to make it fun for all.

 

[bicycleshorts]

If you're opening up that kind of lead then there's a good chance the people you're racing are of a low skill level, and if that's true then most of these guys are punters anyway so why would you want RBE letting the punters catching up to and taking you out?

Not necessarily, with the RBE off it only takes one slip of the mind or pushing just a bit too hard to take you out of the race for first place (especially in a race with only 5 laps).

That said, I enjoy racing through the pack and will often pull off at the start of the race to cleanly work through everyone - the problem with no RBE is if you get held up for a small amount of time by a slow driver you struggle to catch up the rest of the pack (even if they're far slower).

I don't think the intermediate RBE solution works, I for one, don't enjoy playing Standard physics (especially in RWD where there is no oversteer at all). I personally, want to be able to play in Pro physics with both RBE on and RBE off.

Edit:

I voted make all, because it does not say Split 50/50
I think the effect should be off for LONG endurance racing. Or 20+ racing.

It should be on when we have 3-5 racing but not for all races.

👍

 

[Watevaman]

I personally think it would be better with it off, as it creates a more realistic racing atmosphere. In real life, cars aren't all bunched up on the racetrack, and with RBE on, they seem to be. With RBE off, it allows for a better spread and really rewards those who keep focused during the race.

 

[profi]

I missed the choice "No RBE for all races (offline/online)" so I voted "no RBE for expert"

I hate it.. did I mention it already ?

 

[H20HYBRID_GT]

Not necessarily, with the RBE off it only takes one slip of the mind or pushing just a bit too hard to take you out of the race for first place (especially in a race with only 5 laps).
That said, I enjoy racing through the pack and will often pull off at the start of the race to cleanly work through everyone - the problem with no RBE is if you get held up for a small amount of time by a slow driver you struggle to catch up the rest of the pack (even if they're far slower).
I personally, want to be able to play in Pro physics with both RBE on and RBE off.

Besides the fact that if you need help from the computer to win, what's the point to RACE anyway, you're missing one important point ... when you make a mistake and fall behind, chances are the guy in front messes up too, which gives you the chance to regain position = RACING! 👍

 

[Biggles]

NO RBE: There are always going to be people out there who are at a similar level to you, with whom you can have good races. Private rooms will make it easier to set up races with participants at a similar level.

One of the advantages of no RBE is that whether you are way behind, or way in front, you can at least focus on getting the best lap times you can without the interference of the RBE.

 

[nissan tuner]

RBE should be gone for good. It's the "real driving simulator" after all

 

[Wolfe]

Er...RBE? I know the gameplay mechanic we're talking about, but I've never seen or heard it referred to as anything but "boost" or "catch-up."

Anyway, a race with boost is not a race, it's a game. Some people like racing, and some people like playing. Why isn't there just a server option for this? Solves everything. I mean, yes, there'll be just as many "boost on" servers as there are players driving the best car of a class, but that isn't any worse than the way it sounds now.

 

[H20HYBRID_GT]

^^ if you know or not... its there
and the worst part is not the boost for the slower guys, it's actually the slowing down the leaders... 👎

 

[Patrik]

I voted for "Make all Expert events without RBE" as well.

Haha, I feel sorry for PD.. They've put time and money into making the RBE, and just to realise everyone hates it.

 

[bicycleshorts]

Besides the fact that if you need help from the computer to win, what's the point to RACE anyway, you're missing one important point ... when you make a mistake and fall behind, chances are the guy in front messes up too, which gives you the chance to regain position = RACING! 👍

Surely you have noticed how spread out the pack becomes in these races? A lot of the time you spend 3 or 4 laps putting in a perfect drive just to catch the guy who is one place in front of you. I'm not saying anything against this - I personally sometimes enjoy it - but I think it would be better suited for longer races (e.g. 10-15 laps). I also enjoy working through 6 or 7 places in a race cleanly - something you can't really do without a little boost.

For me, both have their pros and cons - hence why I think some should be included with it on and some with it off. Especially if there would be no way of playing on PRO physics and racing through a pack of 8 people.

Perhaps the solution could be to move the intermediate races to PRO physics...

Edit: It's also not fun gaining a place by passing someone in the kitty litter - much better to do it on a corner

 

[Stotty]

Going to have to agree with bicycleshorts on this... no RBE at all makes for spread out boring races. You can hang realism if that's the result, I'd rather have 5 laps of a pack of cars racing bumper to bumper.

Fine to have one event RBE free, but not all.

 

[H20HYBRID_GT]

Wow, sad. ^^
The thing is with RBE I don't have the smallest room for improvement because its just constantly messing up the handling and i deeply hate that!
Also i don't get why people clearly worse should be able to beat me just because of this crap ...
Racing is about consistency, everything else is just mariocart!
Optional you say? yes that would be cool cos nobody would ever use it lol
I think if GT5 comes out with the word Simulation on it and contains RBE im gonna sue PD cos it's clearly misleading false advertisement!

 

[Vaxen]

Ultimately the best racing is close racing, and the best close racing is without RBE. It raises the stakes on every corner and every pass attempt, whether attacking or defending. There have been some intense races where I finished with a 5 second lead, as I knew if the trailing racer had caught my draft, the race would have been much more difficult to win.

If I find myself in a series of races with drivers of lesser skill, I will tend to handicap myself by driving a lesser (but still competitive) car.

I can see the benefit of the boost for those trailing, but the handicap applied to the leaders is always unwelcome.

 

[RSwagoneer]

Marchbrown
I realy think the RBE should be off in all expert races. The Intermediat level should be in pro mode but with RBE, and then the beginner in standard mode
[\QUOTE]

You got my vote 👍

 

[nasanu]

For me, both have their pros and cons - hence why I think some should be included with it on and some with it off. Especially if there would be no way of playing on PRO physics and racing through a pack of 8 people.

PP is a trade off you know. If you cant win from last then lower your PP so you start up the front. The solution is already before us, some cant see it it would seem.