MrPinstripes' soon to be World Famous Spring Rate Setting Theory!

[orpheusd0wn]

For a limited time only- gamefaqs doesn't archive like this place: click and make note.

http://boards.gamefaqs.com/gfaqs/genmessage.php?board=561066&topic=24174053

 

[sukerkin]

Interesting work, very similar to a couple of formulae I came up with a while ago in order to calculate the required spring rate changes for an alteration in ride height.

There are a couple of differences, such as I included the Weight Distribution into the formula rather than applying it afterwards and I treated downforce as a variable.

It looks an intriguing take in the matter tho' and I'll be giving it a go over the next day or so.

I have a nice EXCEL spreadsheet set up these days that allows me to calculate appropriate spring rates using suspension frequency and it'll be interesting to see how the different methods compare.

 

[panjandrum]

There is a lot of good information in that guide, especially in terms of general driving techniques (flicking to induce drift, breaking during turns, etc.).

BUT, like all the other guides I've seen, it confuses real-life physics with GT4 physics. As much as we would all like to think that would work, I think we all know by now that it doesn't. I decided not to apply any of the suspension tuning in this guide as soon as I read the part where it says "Remember, softer springs = more grip on that end". One absolute firm fact we know about GT4 tuning is that the the stiffer end gets more grip, not the softer end. Did the author even bother to try that? If that most basic aspect of the guide is wrong, how much of the rest of it can be trusted?

Someone with plenty of time still needs to write a concise GT4 tuning guide that *totally ignores real life physics*, it is the only way we'll ever completely figure out GT4 suspension tuning.

I'm to the point where I can quickly change the handling characteristics of a car through tuning. I can reduce understeer or oversteer, use downforce or LSDs to stabilize a car, and change overall bouncy-ness to compensate for different courses (softer suspension for rough courses or you'll get thrown around too much), but there are many aspects of the suspension tuning that I would like to be able to utilize better (specifically toe and stabilizers). We really do need a GT4-only tuning guide...

Anyone? Anyone?

 

[Greycap]

The "stiffer end gets more grip" is actually rubbish under some circumstances, I found it out with my Corvette '63 Race Car. It began turning significantly better when I softened the front springs.

 

[panjandrum]

The "stiffer end gets more grip" is actually rubbish under some circumstances, I found it out with my Corvette '63 Race Car. It began turning significantly better when I softened the front springs.

I'll admit to not doing that to the '63 vette, I've left the handling stock on that car. But, I have to say, that I have tuned probably 100 different models of vehicle, and I've never, not once, found an exception to "stiffer gets more grip". I'll try the vette sometime though just to see.

 

[Sean_BBB]

BUT, like all the other guides I've seen, it confuses real-life physics with GT4 physics. As much as we would all like to think that would work, I think we all know by now that it doesn't. I decided not to apply any of the suspension tuning in this guide as soon as I read the part where it says "Remember, softer springs = more grip on that end". One absolute firm fact we know about GT4 tuning is that the the stiffer end gets more grip, not the softer end. Did the author even bother to try that? If that most basic aspect of the guide is wrong, how much of the rest of it can be trusted?

Someone with plenty of time still needs to write a concise GT4 tuning guide that *totally ignores real life physics*, it is the only way we'll ever completely figure out GT4 suspension tuning.

We really do need a GT4-only tuning guide...

Anyone? Anyone?

Great post. I was excited to read this guide till I read your post. I'm not even going to bother clicking the link now. It is true that GT'4s tuning is somewhat backwards. Spring rates are the best example of this. So if that part of the guide is wrong, what else can we actually take from the guide?

A real good solid guide needs to be published, it would help out a ton of people, me included.

 

[Rac3rX]

lol

Thats a Joke, waist of time.....Formulas to get the best suspention set ups NEVER WORK, you cant apply these rules to any car its retarded, there are so many variables that come into play that your calculator cant compute, lol lol lol lol lol lol lol lol lol lol lol lol (Shakes his head)

 

[Boost Lee]

I'm on the boat with panjandrum also.

How a vehicles suspension reacts in real life does not matter here for the 1000th time. How to get your vehicles suspension in the game set up properly, does.

 

[niky]

Actually, stiffer is always better. But for race cars, stiffer often means it's harder to drive over bumps.

There's no magic tuning formula that will work for everything, obviously, and it varies from car to car, from track to track, and even from tire to tire. (grip rates and TURN-IN vary for different levels of tire).

 

[dudejo]

a good base to start from when tuning suspensions springs is to make the end with the engine twice as stiff as the lighter end.

and the stabilizers with two clicks higher than the lighter end.

[EDIT] DOH! sry bout that slip.

it is now fixed

 

[Greycap]

a good base to start from when tuning suspensions springs is to make the end with the engine twice as stiff as the rear.

But what if the engine is in the rear?

 

[Scaff]

Great post. I was excited to read this guide till I read your post. I'm not even going to bother clicking the link now. It is true that GT'4s tuning is somewhat backwards. Spring rates are the best example of this. So if that part of the guide is wrong, what else can we actually take from the guide?

A real good solid guide needs to be published, it would help out a ton of people, me included.

For as many people you will find who agree with this, almost the same number will disagree with you (including myself). Even the thread dedicated to this failed to reach agreement on this, I don't believe this can be taken as true.

I've been playing around with the effects of very gradual changes to spring rates in a number of cars to look at the effects they have and would say that as a general guide, real world practices can be adapted, but the individuals driving style needs to be taken into consideration here.

I quite agree that a guide to tuning advice needs to be put together for GT4, but feel that it would need to be very carefully written to take into account driving styles.

For example, I can take a setting that has been posted by someone and apply it to a car and find that for me it drives like a POS, this does not mean that the settings are wrong, just wrong for me and my driving style. Just as in the real world, a setting that works well for one driver in a car, may be out for another driver in the same car.

Given all that it would be a bit strange to simply dismiss this out of hand. I am not saying its any good, but its worth a look and I for one will be testing it. I will post the results along with my thoughts and opinion on it as soon as I have given it a good go.

Regards

Scaff

 

[SirBerra]

The "stiffer end gets more grip" is actually rubbish under some circumstances, I found it out with my Corvette '63 Race Car. It began turning significantly better when I softened the front springs.

I tend to agree that stiffer end gets more grip on a really smooth and even track. I would doubt a stiffer suspension is better at Nurburgring. That track is so bumpy in spots that a stiffer suspension just sends you off-track.

When you softened the springs on the Vette, did you bother to alter damping and stabilizers, also?

 

[dudejo]

if the springs are too stiff then it can scrap the handling.

i put my front springs at max on my Taurus SHO (max at 15) and the understeer was horrible.

just reducing them to 12 chopped off half a second.

 

[sucahyo]

anyone ever test extreme combination of suspension and damper on GT4?
I do some bump test on GT2, on bumpy test track corner,
20/20 spring, 1/1 1/1 damper on R34 vspec with no weight mods is stable on that corner, changing the damper to 10/10 10/10 will require the spring lowered to 14/14 to get the same stability. I don't know which is faster because my skill suck.

 

[Greycap]

I tend to agree that stiffer end gets more grip on a really smooth and even track. I would doubt a stiffer suspension is better at Nurburgring. That track is so bumpy in spots that a stiffer suspension just sends you off-track.

When you softened the springs on the Vette, did you bother to alter damping and stabilizers, also?

No, I just reduced the spring rate from 11.0 / 10.0 to 9.0 / 10.0 and kept the dampers and stabilizers the same as before. The track was El Capitan by the way.

 

[Small_Fryz]

Someone with plenty of time still needs to write a concise GT4 tuning guide that *totally ignores real life physics*, it is the only way we'll ever completely figure out GT4 suspension tuning.

Amen

They also need to forget GT3.

 

[dudejo]

there is something interesting i noticed.

car setups are not forwards-compatible but they ARE backwards-compatible.

i tried my CR-X setup from GT4 into GT2 and the car handles really well, even on sports tires.