My Logitech logic{new wheel segments}

[Puggy]

Here's what I'd do if I was Logitech CEO, especially considering the competition from T500 and Fanatec.

1...DFGT wheel+DFGT pedals minus the silly stick shift.........ideally $99AUD

2...DFGT wheel+ G27 paddles+brake and gas from G27 with option to buy logitech "nixim" mod from G28.....$185.....this would be a fast set up even in stock form, and presumably faster with brake mod.....also, the exclusion of clutch and 6 speed won't kill G27 sales.

3....G27 as is 11in wheel.....$395AUD....with option to add G28 brake mod and G29 pedals/pedal kit that works with the PS3.....advantage here is smaller outlay up front, but fullhouse upgrade available.

4....G28 with 12in wheel+ G27 pedals and include their own version of the nixim mod....6 speed shifter modular and optional.....$550+$75 for 6speed

5....G29....12-13in wheel, higher quality 6speed shifter, + CSPedal style pedals with tuning kit......$899......but this model must have similar quality FFB to T500/CSRe otherwise it's pointless.

T500 is currently about $700-$730AUD.

G29 would get good press and would arguably be all any serious racer would ever need other than a sequential.....but they could always factor that in, but for me, if I'm not going to use paddles, I'd rather use the 6sp H gate.

G28 advantage is smaller footprint{T500 is friggin HUGE} ....I also get a feeling someone will say that a DFGT style wheel with 3 pedals should be included, and I guess from a marketing POV they might be right, but from a racing POV, 2 G27 quality pedals are far better and keeps costs down.

Anyway, something along these lines is what I'd like to see happen, especially the modular approach similar to what Fanatec are doing, so depending on cost etc, maybe one could have even more modular options for the cheaper wheels, but that almost defeats the purpose of the high end wheels and will probably add to cost.

My next wheel will be a G27, but if GTR3 kicks ass, I'd certainly be prepared to buy a CSRe package or a G29 as I think they're at a level that we've never seen before, and I don't think more expensive wheel/sets necessarily make you go faster.....either way, I hope Logitech can respond with "something" like this, as virtually all segments are covered.

 

[boons]

Hi Puggy
wow well written! Logitech will not package so many types especially when it involves external mods which to them is not proven and may expedite wear and tear...
Well for $400 G27 is a steal really...add $100 more for mods is near perfect wheel and still much cheaper than other $700-$900 wheel...

I feel that T500 being not cross platform is really a waste because many would want to play Forza4. I am also saving for Fanatec next best wheel if Forza4 really turn out to be that good and deserving for a great wheel hookup. But it is still very hard for me to cough out twice the G27 wheel cost to get the Fanantec package...sigh.

 

[David]

I don't think you'll ever see Logitech do anything like that. They make a pretty broad range of mainstream peripherals and I doubt that they really want to try to compete at the high end of the racing sim market. Thrustmaster and Fanatec pretty much exclusively make wheels/pedals (Okay Thrustmaster makes some joysticks and controllers too but nothing like the range of stuff that Logitech is into) so it makes sense for them to have higher end products on offer.

As nice as it would be to have a more serious sim wheel come from a mainstream company like Logitech, with the great support that comes with that, I don't see it happening.

 

[Puggy]

As nice as it would be to have a more serious sim wheel come from a mainstream company like Logitech, with the great support that comes with that, I don't see it happening.

I suspect many people would be prepared to shell out for logitech and it's superior support, and if they fail to do some of what I suggested, they'll might lose ground against the ever improving Fanatec.

Also, having a flagship wheel is good advertising.

The thing that I would worry about if I was Logitech, is how many people who have the cash and desire for a G27 will move/have moved to a T500 or Fanatec?

Fanatec are going to offer 2 outstanding wheels and two outstanding pedal sets, it's time for Logitech to respond with a big revamp, especially as we now have/coming up.

GT5
FM3/4
GTR3
F1 2010/11
NFS shift2
Iracing2
rfactor2

These are all racing games that respond well to wheels, and if you go back to Q3 2009, there was no GT5, no FM4, no F1, no Shift, old iracing and rfactor......it just seems to me to be a good time to have a solid range of wheels.

 

[Puggy]

Well for $400 G27 is a steal really...add $100 more for mods is near perfect wheel and still much cheaper than other $700-$900 wheel...
.

All true, but did you read about the new Fanatec CSRe wheel?....it really does sound like a killer wheel without the monster footprint of the T500.

Anyway, we can only hope, as more competition is good for all wheel users.

 

[Puggy]

Just looking at the ARC mod for the G25/27, if they used that on all pedals, and included some extra springs with varying tensions, that would surely be a great set and with the plastic pots out the way, one would think the lifespan of the pedal set would be impressive.

 

[Puggy]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iHe0O6UcMK8&feature=feedu

Looks like my pricing for G29 is quite reasonable compared to this abortion of a modified G27.
ISR video.

 

[Coxis]

Well, it's safe to say that if you were the CEO of Logitech you'd probably make them retire from the wheel market. So many options and new manufacturing processes that you would eliminate the profit they make from them.

Why do you think so few manufacturers offer true wheel customization? Because it's expensive. What you described up there, while a good-hearted attempt is not profitable which is the reason why it isn't a reality with Logitech.

 

[Puggy]

Why do you think so few manufacturers offer true wheel customization? Because it's expensive. What you described up there, while a good-hearted attempt is not profitable which is the reason why it isn't a reality with Logitech.

What isn't profitable?
I gave the G29 $200 more than the T500.

 

[Coxis]

I'm not going into details since I myself don't know them (and neither do you) but for starters you're just guesstimating prices. In order to set a price you need to know and actually know the costs of your manufacturing processes as well as the cost of actually changing them, hiring the extra chinese people to manufacture them and the fact that you'd probably need to expand your manufacturing capacity.

Two simple examples: You'd no longer be able to manufacture one set of G27 pedals per G27 wheel manufactured, since you now sell the DFGT with G27 pedals as an options. You're adding new wheels and different diamater wheels to your manufacturing process.

Logitech would still make most of its sales from their off-the-shelf solutions (stock DFGT, G27) and only a small percentage of sales would actually be from their customized products, which cost more to manufacture, maintain the custom ordering process and communicate to their factories in China.

If it was profitable more manufacturers would be doing it.

 

[Puggy]

If it was profitable more manufacturers would be doing it.

You mean the modular ability that Fanatec have with their CSP and the introduction of their F1 style wheel?.....so Fanatec can outdo Logitech?

It seems to me that we're at a different state of not just gaming, but racing gaming, ie, the sales of FM3/4/GT5/F1 2010 etc....also it's possible that iracing could pick up more numbers, but IMO, not with their current set up, but nevertheless, we have a huge number of racing games on the market{NFS shift1 sold 5million copies}....also, the nature of technology and consumerism is such that my ideas seem reasonable, whereas yours sound like Logitech should never do anything but make DFGT/G27 and hope to stay on top.

 

[Coxis]

You mean the modular ability that Fanatec have with their CSP and the introduction of their F1 style wheel?.....so Fanatec can outdo Logitech?

Yes, Fanatec outdoes Logitech just as Logitech outdoes Fanatec in other areas.

You want Fanatec's custom gear? Sure. Order them from Germany, wait 4 to 6 weeks (maybe more) to receive them and if they're defective... send them back across the pond. Fanatec's customer service? Search around the forums for some opinions on that. They may take weeks to answer.

Want a Logitech product? Drive to your nearest Best Buy. Defective? Return it to the store and get a new one. Customer service? I hear it's one of the best, call them and they'll refund you or send you a new unit if within warranty.

Fanatec is a tiny company compared to giant Logitech, as is Thrustmaster. Fanatec does custom stuff, Logitech and TM do not. Why do you think Fanatec is more expensive than Logitech? It's not just because the wheels themselves are better. Why do you think they take so long to fulfill orders? Because they don't have factories in China nor do they have the manufacturing capacity Logitech does.

There are advantages and disadvantages in every business scheme.

And I'm not saying they shouldn't do anything... I'm just saying they aren't doing anything because they have to analize if those options are profitable. Guess what, they probably aren't doing what you're suggesting because it's not.

 

[Saidur_Ali]

Yes, Fanatec outdoes Logitech just as Logitech outdoes Fanatec in other areas.

You want Fanatec's custom gear? Sure. Order them from Germany, wait 4 to 6 weeks (maybe more) to receive them and if they're defective... send them back across the pond. Fanatec's customer service? Search around the forums for some opinions on that. They may take weeks to answer.

Want a Logitech product? Drive to your nearest Best Buy. Defective? Return it to the store and get a new one. Customer service? I hear it's one of the best, call them and they'll refund you or send you a new unit if within warranty.

Fanatec is a tiny company compared to giant Logitech, as is Thrustmaster. Fanatec does custom stuff, Logitech and TM do not. Why do you think Fanatec is more expensive than Logitech? It's not just because the wheels themselves are better. Why do you think they take so long to fulfill orders? Because they don't have factories in China nor do they have the manufacturing capacity Logitech does.

There are advantages and disadvantages in every business scheme.

And I'm not saying they shouldn't do anything... I'm just saying they aren't doing anything because they have to analize if those options are profitable. Guess what, they probably aren't doing what you're suggesting because it's not.

As far as I know Fanatec manufacture their products in China. They don't go retail as the prices for the wheels will become more expensive to buy so pass on the savings by being the sole supplier of their own products.

 

[Coxis]

As far as I know Fanatec manufacture their products in China. They don't go retail as the prices for the wheels will become more expensive to buy so pass on the savings by being the sole supplier of their own products.

For some reason I thought they manufactured their products domestically. Thanks.

 

[Saidur_Ali]

For some reason I thought they manufactured their products domestically. Thanks.

No problem, they just design and engineer their products in Germany as far as I know.

 

[boons]

Hi Guys.. on the topic of logitech next gen wheel i tried google. but absolutely no much news on g29 or whatever...hmmm why is this so? I really pray hard Logitech will not submit to Thrustmaster or fanatec ah haha..By now there should be news that at least Logitech is developing next gen wheel that can match the precision of t500rs or CSR wheel I hope...

Really over here in my country G27 is definitely best seller..only one dealer start to bring in Fanatec gt3 and gt2 wheel after so so many years...their price is almost double of g27 which really stops me from buying...

Only minority who hopes to play xbox360 forza hopes to get a cross platform wheel like fanatec one.. Or I am wrong? People really get fanatec wheel because it provides better ffb than g27? Some say yes and some say it is about the same.. hence quite confusing...

Nonetheless I hope Logitech can announce news on their next wheel..and sure many fans will be delighted.

 

[Puggy]

And I'm not saying they shouldn't do anything..

You're not really saying anything, other than trying to convince me you're an economics champion{which I totally reject}.....so let's hear some details from you as to what Logitech should do in response to TM and Fanatec, or does your economic model involve acquiescing to upstarts?

 

[Puggy]

People really get fanatec wheel because it provides better ffb than g27? Some say yes and some say it is about the same.. hence quite confusing...

My feeling is that Logitech have been caught off guard, especially by TM, as by all accounts that's a sensational wheel set which includes a brake mod in the package[T500].

As for FFB, whatever floats your boat, but I'm happy with my DFGT's FFB, but very unhappy with the pedals and not overjoyed by the hard plastic wheel and the omission of G27 like paddle shifters.

 

[Simmpa]

Hi Guys.. on the topic of logitech next gen wheel i tried google. but absolutely no much news on g29 or whatever...hmmm why is this so? I really pray hard Logitech will not submit to Thrustmaster or fanatec ah haha..By now there should be news that at least Logitech is developing next gen wheel that can match the precision of t500rs or CSR wheel I hope...

Really over here in my country G27 is definitely best seller..only one dealer start to bring in Fanatec gt3 and gt2 wheel after so so many years...their price is almost double of g27 which really stops me from buying...

Only minority who hopes to play xbox360 forza hopes to get a cross platform wheel like fanatec one.. Or I am wrong? People really get fanatec wheel because it provides better ffb than g27? Some say yes and some say it is about the same.. hence quite confusing...

Nonetheless I hope Logitech can announce news on their next wheel..and sure many fans will be delighted.

I think the reason a sucessor to G27 never been revealed is becuse It´s to early, think about it G25 in 2006 and G27 in 2009 the new wheel will come probably in 2012. Did we hear any news on the G25 before the year 2006? Or did we hear about G27 before 2009? No, if they announce it a year before the release the sale of the current wheel will drop.

 

[Zoom!Zoom!]

I don't expect Logitech to come out with a high end wheel the exact same reason I wouldn't expect Microsoft to come out with one. High end wheels don't sell that good to draw the interest of these larger companies. Look how well something like Kinect sells compared to all the wheels put together (let alone Microsoft WRW). Logitech is more interested in sell devices in larger numbers which means low to mid range.

 

[Puggy]

Logitech is more interested in sell devices in larger numbers which means low to mid range.

Fanatec and T500 must be having some effect on G27 sales, but atm, there's so many successful racing games out, they're probably having a hard time keeping up with demand.

For me at least, I'm moving to a G27, but would possibly buy a CSRe package, and as long as the company and product did right by me, I'd probably never go back to logitech

 

[sesselpupser]

Fanatec and T500 must be having some effect on G27 sales,

They probably are, but they might not be, am I right in believing the G27 undercuts the same level models from Fanatec and Thrustmaster? If so, I'd imagine they're doing quite well, but are missing out on sales from the hardest of the hardcore sim racers. Also I'm willing to bet Logitech make way more from sales of the DFGT, anyway, because to my knowledge TM nor Fanatec make an entry-level wheel.