My next car...

[Conza]

So I've had my current car for two years, and I'm thinking it's time to get a FR, to learn that layout.

I might consider MR, but I think FR is easier to control 'as a general rule', and want to have owned an FR before I move onto MR.

I could either go all out, and get something as my 'one' car, but I'm also considering a cheaper 2nd car, as I still love my existing car, and its a perfect daily for me, a Mk V Golf GTI.

My main focus are these points in descending order of importance

Front Engined, Rear Wheel Drive, (LSD optional, highly wanted)
Good quality suspension - probably prefer soft to harsh
Lightness (less than 1300kgs preferred)
Naturally Aspirated, Petrol
Long Gears (2nd ~65mph)
Coupe/Sedan/Convertible (preference in this order)
Less than $20k main car / Less than $10k 2nd car
6 Cylinders (Porsche's, Honda, Rotary's and possibly more excepted)
15-17 inch wheels
Not red (current car is red)
Newer than 1979 (could be tempted a bit older)
4 seats would be nice (not a deal breaker at all)
Prefer Victoria (may travel though)

Excluded makes - may be updated
Holden
Ford
Chrysler
Mercedes-Benz

My base search is simple, Carsales.com.au is popular in Australia so I'm starting with this search link

All ads, Price - $20k max, Year - 1980+, Transmission - Manual, Drive Type - Rear Wheel Drive

http://www.carsales.com.au/cars/results?q=((((GenericGearType=[Manual]&Drive=[Rear Wheel Drive])&(Price=range[0..20200]&Year=range[1980..]))&((BodyStyle=[Coupe]{|}BodyStyle=[Convertible]){|}BodyStyle=[Sedan]))&Service=[Carsales])&sortby=~Price&cpw=1&limit=24



EDIT: 6 Cylinder E30s also considered

 

[TB]

Thread moved.

 

[SVX]

E36 (maybe), GT-T R34, Silvia, MX-5.

 

[eight6er]

I would recommend R32 Skyline GTS-T I had one and they're a great car. Also Nissan S bodies, like Silvia and 180sx if you're not set on 6 cylinder.

Edit: Nevermind, I forgot the part about NA.

 

[Eunos_Cosmo]

Rx-7 or S2000. I have the former and I'm buying the latter soon. You can't beat them. Both (all three gens of RX-7s) have nearly perfect weight distribution and great chassis dynamics. My FB is one of the funnest cars I've ever driven. That being said, Na and Nb Miatas are also hilariously fun, but the engines aren't really great n/a. While a built-to-hell and back n/a BP MX-5 engine might make 170whp, a 13b can make that with a good header and intake setup on stock ports. With advances in engine management and tuning a very streetable 250whp n/a 13b can be built. Put that into a first generation RX-7 at 2400lbs....and you have a very fun car.

All that being said....I vote S2000. Honda somehow managed to make a racing engine totally tractable on the road. Gear-driven camshafts, formula 1 piston speeds...and that sound....Its a truly phenomenal car. I'm hoping to buy one before the end of the summer.

 

[Vegard]

The brain and the heart concurs - S2K.

 

[synchromesh]

If your VW was good to you, I'd keep your brand loyalty. Was the VW Corrado sold where you live? That would be a great car.

 

[Beeblebrox237]

I had a look at carsales and I remembered that Australia is full of awesome Japanese cars that you don't get many other places in the world, some of which are surprisingly cheap.

Nissan Skylines of all variants are quite plentiful and affordable, as well as being practical.
The Nissan 350Z also seems like a good choice for you, along with any older Z cars you might have an interest in.
And of course, there's the Supra.
On a different note, E36 M3s are nice.
And probably the best all around car here, the Honda S2000. I'd probably have one of those.
Or one of these stunning cars. They're not economical and they're fairly high maintenance, but
If that seems tempting but a bit too much, a nice low mileage RX8 could also be a very interesting buy.

 

[Murcie_LP640]

Not-A-Skyline 350GT.

 

[The Vanishing Boy]

-> As a S2000 veteran for 5 1/2 years, there is no other car that will bring a complete smile on your face than a S2K. If I didn't had a financial crisis last year, these guys would still be in my garage right now.

 

[Conza]

I can't explain it, but between S2000 and RX-8, I just prefer the RX-8, its more than a roof, and personal preference for looks, they are amazingly similar on paper in some ways as well, power, torque, the S2000 weighs a bit less, then the RX-8 has slightly more torque lower down.

I drove an RX-8 the other day and it was excellent.

I think I want another car that could contend with that, that isn't the S2000, and is still RWD, and is still light, and I just can't find it.

 

[Beeblebrox237]

Actually, the Honda has slightly more low end torque, but it's basically a dead heat. They're both very, very high revving and the Mazda is even more so than the S2000. IIRC, you need first in the Mazda up to about 10mph when second would do in a normal car, and you have to redline it often to keep the valvetrain working properly.

The red line is a 350Z, for reference.

 

[homeforsummer]

valvetrain

Highlighting this word for no particular reason

 

[Beeblebrox237]

Highlighting this word for no particular reason

Definitely a very poor choice of word there.

 

[Murcie_LP640]

On further reflection, my pick would be an E36 M3.

While the E46 330Ci is also a good car, the E46 was inherently plagued with rear subframe issues, particularly in coupes, and indeed it's not an ///M. In my personal opinion too aside from the E92 I reckon the later 3.2L E36 Evos were one of the best M-cars to drive.

 

[TexRex]

Of the specified lot, I've only owned the first option (an n/a 2.7 944 from '89), and can *waves arms in air emphatically* suggest you stay away.



Okay, it wasn't that bad, but your other candidates would likely prove more satisfying.

 

[Conza]

Thanks @Murcie_LP640 a serious consideration, both E36 and E46 are in contention, the E46 M3 I've heard a few gremlin stories, and some 'overpowered' ones too, the E36 seems to be right on it, but personally still 'a bit fast' to "learn" the layout (?).

@TexRex though, it would be my pick of all the FR Porsches (for lightness, no turbo, price and even looks), expensive parts though, or..?

 

[TexRex]

@TexRex though, it would be my pick of all the FR Porsches (for lightness, no turbo, price and even looks), expensive parts though, or..?

It's not something that easily quantifiable for me. While it was certainly more competent and capable than the [early] 911 whose place it took in my possession. Mind you it's also been more than a decade since I owned it and it's only gotten older in that time (duh), so parts will be going bad and examples you find (that cost as much as well-kept RX-8s and S2000s) are going to be in rough shape. The parts may not be terribly expensive individually, but they add up, and some of the more costly items will have seen considerable wear.

 

[Sertsa]

Unless you know a mechanic that understands and may even like working on rotary engines I'd avoid the various Mazda RXs. For the rest and other contenders I think there are a few considerations, such as.

- Mainly interested in power or handling? (from what you said I'll guess handling).
- What's your tolerance for a car that requires significant maintenance. Do you want to work on it or will it be visiting mechanics?
- Will it be tracked? Often?


With that I'll just give some general thoughts.
- Front engined older Porsche. These are often babied so are well maintained, but these cars are also pretty old now and still need regular and often pricey maintenance. Still, there's a great appeal to owning a Porsche at least once in your life, but if you'd go this route you would have to keep your Golf, as I don't think you could rely on a 944 as a daily car.
- Mazda - Regarding the MX-5, if you can fit in it reasonably comfortably with the top up, don't worry too much about snow and heavy rains and are okay by going without a backseat, then yes. This is a great car. You may have to contend with some stereotypes but you should be having too much fun to care.
- BMW 3-series. I've driven the E46 and E90 and really liked them both. Personally, though, I decided I needed more reliability and less maintenance cost for a daily car. Also the lack of a spare tire wheel well and dipstick in the E90 really bothered me; I thought it telling BMW went from being a car company that once included a tool set to one designed for people who'll hire others to open the hood or fix tires. As for the E36 or E46, though, if you find a good one and can tolerate the downtime and maintenance cost, this is a great all around choice. Like the Porsche you won't want to rely on it for daily driving, though.
- Honda S2000. Everything I said about the MX-5 but with more power and less pervasive stereotypes. I think aftermarket support should be good, but I doubt it would be quite the level of the MX-5s.
- Toyota Supra - Eh, it's been so long since I've even seen one I can't say much other than remembering it's a pretty old car by now (unless you have more recent versions than were sold in the US)

Others.
- The Nissan 350/370Z that's been mentioned. I guess you could consider one, but definitely spend time driving it. I personally really don't like the car. I think it's too noisy and the visibility is too poor for a daily driver, while its engine and brake cooling are too poor for a good track car. And it just isn't that fun or even very good at anything beside boulevard cruising, I guess. Nah, I think there are even better choices for cruising. If your Skylines are close to the US market Infiniti G35/37 that may be a better option, but I was pretty unimpressed with the one I test drove as well.
- Toyota GT86/Scion FR-S/Subaru BRZ - Where I live, at least, I'm seeing a lot come up on the used market. Most are just above $20K US, but if they're falling into your budget you may want to consider one. I'm not sure why so many are being sold, and it's troubling, but I think they're worth considering.

So, not sure if that'll help but there's that. You may find this article of interest as well: http://www.sccastartingline.com/_the-10-best-cars-for-autocross-competition.php

 

[Murcie_LP640]

the E36 seems to be right on it, but personally still 'a bit fast' to "learn" the layout (?).

While we did get the unadulterated European versions the E36 M3 feels like the Goldilocks power-to-weight ratio.

My only personal experiences with an FR car previously were my old Skyline, which I just cruised in relishing in the comfortable velour rather than trying to drive it quickly and my sister's MX-5. The E36 was magnificent. The perfect dual-purpose vehicle.

 

[TVR27]

Mazda RX-7

 

[Eunos_Cosmo]

Actually, the Honda has slightly more low end torque, but it's basically a dead heat. They're both very, very high revving and the Mazda is even more so than the S2000. IIRC, you need first in the Mazda up to about 10mph when second would do in a normal car, and you have to redline it often to keep the valvetrain working properly.

The red line is a 350Z, for reference.

Man the old VQ35DE is more of a truck engine than a sports car engine. It's basically all over after 5,000rpm* (and I mean that it would accelerate exponentially less after 5,000rpm). Gearing + weight means that the S2000 at least can come pretty close to the Z33. I like all three cars, to be clear. I actually consider each a high point in their respective marque's post-2000 career...which is tragic for Honda.

 

[Beeblebrox237]

Man the old VQ35DE is more of a truck engine than a sports car engine. It's basically all over after 5,000rpm* (and I mean that it would accelerate exponentially less after 5,000rpm). Gearing + weight means that the S2000 at least can come pretty close to the Z33. I like all three cars, to be clear. I actually consider each a high point in their respective marque's post-2000 career...which is tragic for Honda.

In fairness to the VQ it does have the power peak at around redline, but the redline is quite low. I do agree with you about the S2000, I'm not sure Honda ever came very close to it since. But even in it's final years the NSX was way better than the newer S2000.

 

[Eunos_Cosmo]

In fairness to the VQ it does have the power peak at around redline, but the redline is quite low. I do agree with you about the S2000, I'm not sure Honda ever came very close to it since. But even in it's final years the NSX was way better than the newer S2000.

The S2000 was affordable though. The NSX never was.

 

[HuskyGT]

As much as I love BMW and I actually chickened out of getting an E46 last year (instead I got an '07 Impala), my next car will be an SS Camaro. I just don't trust German cars in general.

 

[hemisport15]

I vote for either and E46/E36 or S2000.

I'm know I'm going to sound like a fan boy, but BMWs are way more reliable than what people are leading you on to believe. They are absolutely daily drivable and they make great ones at that. I daily'd my E36 M3 for nearly 2 years before I lost in my accident. Reliability wise it never let me down once. The only time it was in the shop was to have all the aftermarket stuff I couldn't install myself put on, and regular maintenance. After that I bought an E46 M3 convertible and I daily'd that from March through the end of this October. It went to the shop once because my front right brake caliper was pinching. I just bought my third BMW (E46 325xi) to daily and drive through the winter and it's awesome. It has a slight oil leak, but there isn't a single other thing wrong with it... It's a tank and I love it.

But with all 3 of them I made sure they all had a great maintenance history... that is absolutely key. If you find one that was cared for it will not let you down. But if you buy a $10K E46 M3, don't be surprised when it runs you funds dry. I have to mention it but even if the car is taken care of and something does go wrong, it probably won't be cheap. And depending on how much you're willing to set aside for those costs, it will decide if you want to go with an E36 M3, E46 ZHP (great middle ground between E36 and E46 M3), and an E46 M3.

As for the S2000, I've never driven one but I've heard great things and I've always been a fan. Anything that revs that high is cool in my book! If you have any BMW related questions, let me know!