My race car... in VR and RL

[Skant]

I've mentioned it often enough... I just thought I'd show you guys what she looks like.

This is a race modified 1996 Corvette LT4 Collector's Edition... both the VR and RL versions of her. She's been measured at 0-60mph in 4.3 seconds. She won the WSCC west coast autocross championship for her class in 2004 (a corvette racing series with seven events over the year).

I use Gran Turismo extensively to practice for upcoming events using a virtual replica of my car (mods and all). I even use GT to try out modifications to the car in VR before I do them in RL.

I directly attribute the success I've enjoyed so far to the virtual seat time I've had in the game. When they call it 'The Real Driving Simulator', I dare say I'm the poster boy for taking it from the game directly into real life. With only virtual race experience from playing the game, I entered my first race in RL and immediately landed on the podium. I had wondered whether the game was realistic enough that the virtual experience would translate onto the RL track, and it did... with resounding results. I continued to land on the podium at nearly every event, and the experienced racers could hardly believe I had no prior RL racing experience.

So to all you out there who dream of some day racing in the real world, keep playing GT. You'll get there.

(So can you tell which are RL and which are VR? )

- Skant

 

[Z Draci]

The game really does teach you a lot about racing lines and the basics of racing.
I know because I've been playing since the first GT game. Many people are surprised that I know so much about racing techniques.
If you get proper training though, you will learn exponentionally more.

Is that Buttonwillow?

 

[Skant]

Is that Buttonwillow?

Surrounded by flat, dead grass and out in the middle of nowhere? Why, it must be Buttonwillow! You are correct, sir!

- Skant

 

[Chris Criswell]

You got a podium finish on your first race? Nice, were there only 3 racers ?

(Sarcasm ^)

 

[gibus]

very nice car, I'd love to get a bomb for my first car

 

[Flerbizky]

That is awesome Skant - Very good !..

And congrats on the podium finishes - So all this time with GT4 was NOT just a waste of time

 

[sukerkin]

Thank you for sharing, sir 👍.

I think I prefer you real car to the GT4 'mimic' tho' .

EDIT: Just noticed the blue Elise in one of the pics ... mmm ... additional drool

Many congrats on the RL podiums too - much envy .

 

[Skant]

You got a podium finish on your first race? Nice, were there only 3 racers ?

(Sarcasm ^)

Heh... cute. I believe there were 84 corvettes at that event.

I think I prefer you real car to the GT4 'mimic' tho' .

Thanks! Yeah, I couldn't pass her up when I saw her on the lot! She was so pretty! And she's been gobbling up all my money ever since...

EDIT: Just noticed the blue Elise in one of the pics ... mmm ... additional drool

Oh yeah. That was a beautiful car! It was an 111R (they're in GT4). In the picture, I had just rocketed past him on the straight.

It was one of the cars I had driven down with in a caravan. And I'll tell you what... I was faster than he was on the track, but I was completely outclassed in terms of turning heads. Nobody gave my car so much as a glance as long as his car was nearby!

Oh, and the exhaust note on the Elise is SWEEEET! I tell you what... Lotus is the next on my list after Corvette... Those Elises are fun zippy lil cars!

Many congrats on the RL podiums too - much envy .

Now, to be sure we're talking about _amateur_ racing events here, not professional. It's not like I won a Formula 1 race. That's like a zillion levels above where I am.

But that's actually my main point in posting this thread. I want to show people that you really can go from playing the game on your PS2 to doing it in the real world. Racing is accessible to normal people!

The races you watch on TV are limitted to only the most expensive forms of racing. But that's not all there is. Not by a long shot! It's just like football... just because they only show the big pro games on TV doesn't mean you can't play the game at your local park.

Now, in my case, I've broken into racing with a very fast and expensive car... but it doesn't have to be that way. In fact, it's easier and better to get started with a slow POS.

And heck, the most expensive cars out there aren't usually the fastest anyway. I outran a $500,000 Porsche Carrera GT. And conversely.. my instructor drove an ugly beat up Alpha Romeo that he picked up for $2000... pieces were falling off his car while he raced! But he was way faster than me (of course, he'd gutted the Alphie, so it was super light and running on race tires and all that).

Anyway... my point is... you can get into amateur racing for a lot less money than you think. No matter what your budget is, there's a form of racing for you.

Got $20? You can go race at your local drag strip on amateur night. And if your car is slower than 14.0 seconds on the quarter mile (and most cars are), you don't even have to borrow a helmet. Don't think you can win in your normal everyday grocery getter? I saw an 80 year old granny staging on the lights in her minivan... with a load of groceries in the back! And she was _winning_!!! We're talking bracket drag racing here, so the speed of the car doesn't matter at all.. it's driver skill only... consistency and reaction time. They were releasing the other car when her minivan was already more than half way down the track...

Driving in a straight line not your thing? For $40 you can go race at your local autocross. They have classes for every car right down to even an old stock VW Rabbit. You'll need a helmet, but they usually have loaners available. Oh, and you'll be required to clean all those old soda cans out of your car so they're not flying around in the passenger compartment.

Do you think you could never race around the real Laguna Seca? $250 gets you hours of track time there.

Don't think you could ever afford a full race car like a formula car? You can pick up a Formula Vee for $5000... much less than a Honda Civic! And you'd be hard pressed to find an exotic supercar that could outrun it.

I could go on and on and on... but the upshot is... there's a form of amateur racing that will fit your budget whether your budget is $20 or $100,000.


So if you dream of racing in the real world... I want you to know...

Your dream isn't as far away as you think it is.

- Skant

 

[Jetboy.]

That's just so Skant, you are now my Hero.


P.S. So what you are telling me here is, that, my rally-car wannabe that isn't road-legal still has a chance at life??

 

[TVRKing]

Just to go slightly off-topic for a second....

Did you earn any prize-money for being on the podium, or is it just a racing get together with other Corvette drivers?

Congrats BTW 👍

 

[Poseidon88]

That's just so Skant, you are now my Hero.


P.S. So what you are telling me here is, that, my rally-car wannabe that isn't road-legal still has a chance at life??

I can answer that. Check out SCCA Rallycross for your region:
http://www.scca.com/Rally/RallyCross.asp?IdS=00D294-F4FF6F0&x=040|020&~=

I run my stock WRX when I have the time to make it to events (which isn't as often as I'd like).

 

[Jetboy.]

I can answer that. Check out SCCA Rallycross for your region:
http://www.scca.com/Rally/RallyCross.asp?IdS=00D294-F4FF6F0&x=040|020&~=

I run my stock WRX when I have the time to make it to events (which isn't as often as I'd like).

Hey, thanks for the link. 'Bout 50 miles from where I live, but, yeah. 👍 Pity I won't get my license for about a year and a half. (Pennsylvania is a bastardizing state. Because of a stupid law recently passed, I won't get my license until I'm 17, regardless of my record. All just because I was born in 1990. )

 

[Studentdriver]

Jetboy, what law is this that you speak of? Kind of important, as my sixteenth is within a month.

 

[NSX-R]

Is your c4's handling in VL match RL, just out of curiousity...
congrats! Good Work!

 

[Skant]

Thanks for the kind comments guys!

P.S. So what you are telling me here is, that, my rally-car wannabe that isn't road-legal still has a chance at life??

Lots of things are possible. However, I don't mean to imply that every type of racing can be done cheaply. Watching TV tends to gravitate people toward the most rediculously expensive cars... chances are none of us would ever get to drive a WRC rally car, for instance. Much less own one.

The web is a good resource for finding out what racing and what types of race cars are viable on your budget. You won't learn anything watching TV... they only show the hyper expensive stuff, so don't think that you're gonna race in those (unless you're really serious about dedicating your career to it). Researcch on the web about organizations like the SCCA which support amateur racing.

It's a good idea to adjust your dreaming toward what you could realistically afford to do... so that you could work toward doing it rather than just watching the clouds and sighing. And that means adjusting your target toward racing cars that you can afford. They're not as fast as the ones you see on TV, but they're still very cool. And they're not as much slower as you might expect. You pay 10 times as much for a car which is 10% faster.

And from the driver's point of view, the faster cars aren't actually that much more fun. It pales in comparison to the excitement of racing and competing against other cars. In fact, a lot of amateur racers even prefer racing in the stock car classes (we're talking real stock cars here, not NASCAR type stuff) because they tend to have the most character and flavor. The heavily modified classes can have you racing a very fast car but which is kindof flavorless and actually less interesting to drive. This effect can be witnessed even in Gran Turismo.

SCCA's Spec Miata is very popular, for instance. Stock Miata's aren't actually all that fast, but they're a real blast to race! And they're affordable, too. Lots of folks recommend that class as the place to start. And you may enjoy it so much that you'll never leave.

Did you earn any prize-money for being on the podium, or is it just a racing get together with other Corvette drivers?

Amateur racing usually doesn't involve prize money (though there are some exceptions). But it does involve trophies and even award cerimonies.

While Gran Turismo models a world where racers live off prize money from winning races, it doesn't work like that in the real world even for professional racers. In pro racing, it's all about sponsorships. Racing is funded by advertising.

Amateur racing, on the other hand, is funded out of your own pocket usually. However, even amateur racers pick up sponsorships sometimes. It's not too uncommon, for instance, for a local mechanic shop to provide a good local racer with free or discounted services in exchange for advertising the shop on the car. That car becomes a showcase for that shop's work and draws the other racers to take their cars there.

And tire companies sponsor amateur racers on a regular basis. Which racing tires do you suppose all the amateur racers buy? Why... whatever tires the fastest cars are running, of course!

(You know... I'm not sure whether most pro races even hand out prize money anymore. You never hear about it really. I think if there is prize money, it pales in comparison to the cost of racing and advertising revenues)

I run my stock WRX when I have the time to make it to events (which isn't as often as I'd like).

That sounds like a lot of fun. Those WRX's are fast cars, on or off the pavement.

Is your c4's handling in VL match RL, just out of curiousity...

It's shockingly close. It's handling has the character of the C4 vette (and the C4's handling does have a lot of character to it). And the speeds it can take corners at are pretty close. The speeds it reaches on the straights are close, too.

In fact... you know, you don't get to practice recovering the car when you lose it in RL very much (at least, hopefully you don't experience that situation very often). And I've had a situation where I lost the car and recovered it by reflexes I learned playing the simulation of my car in GT4. It didn't even occur to me until sometime later that I'd only ever done that recovery manuever in VR before. And not only that, but the first several times I'd tried that in VR, I lost the car completely and left the track. The car in RL responded exactly like the car in VR had... so the notion is that if I hadn't mastered that manuever in VR, I would have completely lost the car in RL.

As it was, GT4 predicted the behavior brilliantly. And it saved my butt.

- Skant

 

[Studentdriver]

I'm assuming you have a DFP.

 

[Jetboy.]

Jetboy, what law is this that you speak of? Kind of important, as my sixteenth is within a month.

Well, right now, it's in only Pennsylvania (though legislature is pushing it for Nation-wide.)

Basicly it states that anyone born before 1989 can get their liscense 6 months after they turn 16. Anyone born between 01/01/1990 and 12/31/1990 gets their liscense when they turn 17, and anyone born 01/01/1991 has to wait 2 full years after permit to recieve their liscense (granted that they pass). Anyone else born in a different state or already have their liscence in PA can disregard what I just said.

And from the driver's point of view, the faster cars aren't actually that much more fun. It pales in comparison to the excitement of racing and competing against other cars. In fact, a lot of amateur racers even prefer racing in the stock car classes (we're talking real stock cars here, not NASCAR type stuff) because they tend to have the most character and flavor. The heavily modified classes can have you racing a very fast car but which is kindof flavorless and actually less interesting to drive. This effect can be witnessed even in Gran Turismo.

SCCA's Spec Miata is very popular, for instance. Stock Miata's aren't actually all that fast, but they're a real blast to race! And they're affordable, too. Lots of folks recommend that class as the place to start. And you may enjoy it so much that you'll never leave.

Thank you for the information! 👍 I dunno, is there a class for my car? (I own a 1986 Chevrolet Nova.)

 

[Studentdriver]

Whew, that's a relief! Actually, Jetboy, I live in a town called Wayne, which is thirteen miles west of Philadelphia, so this did nearly apply to me, except for the fact that I'm five and a half months older than the cut line. Sucks for you, though...👎

 

[VT]

Awesome Skant! I love your car. I plan on owning one myself one day, although one of the newer model Corvettes.

Finally someone that can prove American cars CAN turn.

 

[STINGER05]

Nice one Skant! congratulations!Keep up the good spirit!

 

[scoreaj]

cool

 

[Skant]

Thank you for the information! I dunno, is there a class for my car? (I own a 1986 Chevrolet Nova.)

For Autocross classes... lessee... your 1986 Nova is indeed listed. You would race in the Solo II 'H Stock' class. Here's a few of the other cars in that class:

AMC Gremlin
Acura Integra ('86-'89)
Austin Mini Cooper (the old one, not the new one)
Chrysler PT Cruiser (non-turbo)
Dodge Intrepid
Eagle Talon (non-turbo)
Ford Aspire
Honda Accord (4 cyl)
Honda Insight
Mercury Sable
Nissan Altima
Pontiac Fiero (4 cyl)
Porsche 912
Scion TC
Toyota Camry (4 cyl)
Volkswagen Beetle

Awesome Skant! I love your car. I plan on owning one myself one day, although one of the newer model Corvettes.

Finally someone that can prove American cars CAN turn.

Heh, yeah. There's a lot of people that keep regurgitating this old outdated mantra. It hasn't been true for decades now.

Did you know that the 1984 Corvette (the first C4) was the first production car in the world that could sustain a 1g turn?

The vette is a bit heavy for a sports car. But it has a very low center of gravity, and it mounts grippy tires that are about 3 miles wide (some of the vettes on the track are running 335's on all four corners! They actually fit on a stock vette! Mine are only stock size though at 285...).

I've run on tracks where the field was mostly composed of exotic european supercars like Lotus and Porsche, and I was able to challenge them through the tight, twisty sections... matching turn for turn.

And it's pretty obvious that the vette is a rocket on the straights. So the combination is pretty hard to beat.

Corvettes command a lot of respect at the track. They have both sharp handling and american muscle.

- Skant

 

[TVRKing]

Mine are only stock size though at 285....

Damn, and I thought the 205 rubbers on my dad's Ford Contour V6 were big!

 

[Sprite]

its nice to hear that people are having success with GT4 and real life, i would love to race in real life its a dream (im sure it is for most people if not all on this forum) hopefully I will be able to do track days as soon as i get my first car, over here in the uk petrol and insurance cripple the first time drive so it proves to be an expensive past time Ahh well i can dream of tyre smoke and the lovely sounds of a straight six rasping away.

 

[TVRKing]

You know, it is possible to build you own for 250 quid.

I have this book, and I was sorley tempted to try it myself, but lack of room (only have a small front garden) stopped me.

It's basically a tutorial if you like - it tells you what to do and how to do it.

 

[rev]

Good stuff Skant. Good to see someone taking their experience in GT4 and seriously applying it to real world racing. 👍

I live in PA. I heard about that law awhile ago, but many people told me that it was BS. Luckily, i have my liscence. Sucks for some of my friends though. 👎

 

[Jetboy.]

For Autocross classes... lessee... your 1986 Nova is indeed listed. You would race in the Solo II 'H Stock' class. Here's a few of the other cars in that class:


*snip

Pontiac Fiero (4 cyl)
Porsche 912


*snip

- Skant

Oh s*** . A Porsche and a very capable MR car. How far can you tune these things? I believe the IT-spec Miata classes run a 15lbs:1hp ratio so long as it is naturally aspirated. Is there something similar here, too?

 

[Skant]

Oh s*** . A Porsche and a very capable MR car. How far can you tune these things? I believe the IT-spec Miata classes run a 15lbs:1hp ratio so long as it is naturally aspirated. Is there something similar here, too?

Ha ha ha!

I thought that might make you panic! But maybe you aught to look up what a Porsche 912 actually is rather than worrying about the Porsche name.

It's a 90 horsepower car from the 1960's with a 0-60 time of about... 12 seconds.

Welcome to the real world. Companies like Porsche and Ferrari have created an image of invincibility. And people assume that every car they make is unbeatably fast. But it just ain't so. Even when you're talking about their modern cars only. The Subaru WRX Sti is around the same speed or faster in the quarter mile than most of the modern Ferrari line up. Porsche has made cars at all sorts of performance levels over the years... a modern Porsche Boxster is a fairly mild sports car, for instance. It's not a mad crazy car like their 911 turbo series.

When you get out and race in RL, you'll discover that there is shockingly little correlation between how fast the general public thinks each type of car is and how fast it really is. And even less correlation between price and speed. Exotic european supercars are expensive because they're exotic, not because they're fast. You can buy the same speed or more for orders of magnitude less money.

- Skant

PS: You asked what mods you can do in the H-Stock class? The answer is... ummm... essentually none. It's a stock class, and they mean it. You have to run on regular street tires and everything.

 

[Sohcahtoa]

How about my 2000 Suzuki Esteem GLX? 1.8L NA 4-cylinder engine, pulling 122 hp.

I've thought about taking it to the local Autocross events (They do them at Portland International Raceway, which is only about 20 minutes from me if the traffic is good), but the stock car events start at 7 AM, and I'm REALLY not a morning person. I work from 3 PM - 11:30 PM 5 days a week, and when I get home, I just chill on the computer or with GT4 for a few hours, so I'm used to staying up until 4 or 5 AM.

Although the Raceway also does amatuer drag racing every Friday and Saturday night at 6 PM. I think I might go to one of those one night. My girlfriend doesn't want me to, though. She's worried something might happen. I can't get her to understand how short and safe a drag race is.

Its only 1/4 mile.

In a straight line.

With plenty of space between you and the car next to you, sometimes even a barrier.

And it lasts only 8-20 seconds, depending on the cars involved.

One of these days...I'll go.

 

[Skant]

How about my 2000 Suzuki Esteem GLX? 1.8L NA 4-cylinder engine, pulling 122 hp.

Looks like that also goes into H-Stock. You can find the SCCA classing rules at:

SCCA Solo 2 Car Classing Rules

Look in Appendix A for the car lists.

I've thought about taking it to the local Autocross events (They do them at Portland International Raceway, which is only about 20 minutes from me if the traffic is good), but the stock car events start at 7 AM, and I'm REALLY not a morning person. I work from 3 PM - 11:30 PM 5 days a week, and when I get home, I just chill on the computer or with GT4 for a few hours, so I'm used to staying up until 4 or 5 AM.

Ummm... quite honestly... ummm... I'm pointing out that the costs are within the means of normal people. But frankly if your own laziness prevents you from getting out there to do it, I can't help you. You can't race if you can't be bothered to wake up in the morning.

No offense. But that's really kindof pathetic. I mean... you've got a situation most racers would dream of... only a few minutes away from a good track with all sorts of events you can attend, and you can't even be bothered to try it even once. I had to drive 5 hours to reach my last track event. And the closest tracks to me are 1.5 hours away.

I work a late schedule, too. And it's not easy to peel myself out of bed that early. It's a shock to my sleep schedule. But it's well worth the effort.

I'm really sorry... I don't mean to be rude. But what you're saying actually _frustrates_ me.

Get off your butt and go do it!!!

Although the Raceway also does amatuer drag racing every Friday and Saturday night at 6 PM. I think I might go to one of those one night. My girlfriend doesn't want me to, though. She's worried something might happen. I can't get her to understand how short and safe a drag race is.

Its only 1/4 mile.

In a straight line.

With plenty of space between you and the car next to you, sometimes even a barrier.

And it lasts only 8-20 seconds, depending on the cars involved.

Drag racing is totally safe when you're talking about stock or nearly stock production cars. Your car will be going about 75mph when it reaches the finish line.

There won't be a wall between the cars, but the lanes are huge... each one is about the equivalent of 3-4 normal freeway lanes.

We're talking about an element of danger here that's considerably _less_ than a freeway onramp. So maybe you can explain that to your GF. Heck, bring her with you... she can ride in the passenger seat. Neither of you will be required to have a helmet. It's that safe.

One of these days...I'll go.

Don't make me come over there! With a great track only 20 mins away from you, you have _NO EXCUSE_ to not go race in RL.

- Skant