My review of the AI, and it's not all bad

[chris99277]

Controversial, but for me the offline AI gets a lot of undue negative feedback. I agree it’s not great at racing, however I think I realise what PD are trying to do, and why this works enough for them. I know I'll be in the minority, but this is just my thoughts about perhaps what PD may be trying to accomplish and why it fails for many. Some of this may be obvious and said already but this is only my feedback and review of a game I enjoy. Please don’t take it too seriously.

Essentially I think most of the negativity regarding the AI comes from players expectations set against the requirement to win every race. This sets up the situation where the player has to run an overpowered car or race dangerously or unrealistically to get to the front quickly just to progress through the game. For me this is not an enjoyable experience, so I set out to see what more I could get out of it instead.

I drive using the DFGT wheel with the squash ball mod in a custom made cockpit in front of a nice big screen. I use the cockpit view with HUD off so I feel I get a great sense immersion enjoying the pleasure of a track day driving cars I’ll likely never own in real life. While there are many other simulators that may simulate the physics better, GT gives me a nice range of cars I can experience. Consequently, I only drive cars with a detailed cockpit view.

Over time I have come to appreciate that GT actually simulates an open, ‘run-what-you've-brung’ track day fairly well. I don't enjoy driving race cars, and normally keep the cars fairly stock, with all zero assists and ABS0 on cars without ABS. This gives me a pretty good experience, and allows me some decent enough results to progress through the game. I'm not an alien, and will usually only manage bronze or silver on the seasonals, occasionally gold if I'm having a really good day.

To be able to get round a track quickly I need to enter corners slower, with smooth early braking into the corner. If I stomp on the brakes late the wheels will lock and I'll oversteer, which is what I expect in real life. So, when I drive in GT, I drive like I do in real life. This works well on a wheel with pedal resistance, however I imagine using controllers or wheels without brake pedal resistance will have some difficulty with threshold braking and end up pushing too hard and not feeling anything back. If the controller is not sensitive enough, it'll be easy pushing a brake pedal down too far, or to the floor, something I've only done on a real car in an emergency. If the wheels lock or the ABS has kicked in, I've overcooked the entry. Assuming the AI to be trying to represent competent drivers, they would also slow into corners earlier.

Furthermore, the more the car is tuned, the better performance round corners relative to the AI which I believe run mostly stock. Obviously, if using SRF or other aids, the effect would be magnified and the AI in comparison would be like rolling road blocks. This has the effect of a relative slow, cautious AI not expecting a tuned supercar with enhanced braking, grip and stability slamming into the back of them. Likewise, they will not expect a car braking so much later into a corner, or not following normal racing lines and will invariably cut into the player.

In effect, the AI appears to be driving much like a driver with stock tyres, ABS 0, and trying not to write their car off. Therefore when using a tuned car, ABS and track tyres we are able to brake later and harder in comparison to the AI, making the AI appear slow and overly cautious. To be fair, this is how it would appear if a track tuned sports car were to get stuck behind a bunch of stock street cars on a track day.

I think if the player drives more like they do in real life, and assume that the AI is running a stock car that they are trying not to damage, driving against the AI becomes quite reasonable. Not fantastic racing, but enjoyable enough for a realistic driving experience. Entering corners with the AI becomes predictable, as everyone is travelling at roughly the same speed and following the same rules.

I understand the complaint about the rubber banding, chase the rabbit element. When considered against the fact that most players are probably trying to win every race, this seems like a fair criticism. So this is where I think the PD design concept has become lost, as they have attempted to provide a game allowing average drivers the ability to win. In fact for progression in the game the player is required to win or podium. This is unfortunate I think, but understandable commercially.

To have a nice experience against the AI, I try to drive an equally powered car, safely and carefully. This means mostly following and overtaking only when clear and safe, sometimes only once or twice a lap. In this case, I expect not to win every race. This is life. To win, I would need to use a faster car, or capitalise on the mistakes from the AI. Assuming the AI to be experienced and cautious drivers, there should not be many mistakes from them. In fact they should appear to mostly run on rails and do safe predictable laps, much like I try to do.

Personally, I get more enjoyment out of a race against similarly powered cars over many laps, rather than simply getting a win against slower cars. If I invest 30 mins in a race, it doesn't matter to me if I win or not, as long as that 30 mins of my life is enjoyable and worth my time.

 

[Lewis_Hamilton_]

I've been trying this for years and sometimes it's successful and I have had a lot of fun, but no matter what you do to make a "fair" or "challenging" race, the AI is still bad. For example, yesterday I won a 3 lap race at Bathurst, all aids off with a completely stock Renault Avantime (375pp, 207hp, CS tires) against the likes of a Mustang Boss, BMW M3 CSL, Lotus Esprit 350 and so on, which are in the 500pp range, 370-450hp and on Sports Soft tires. Apparently all of these cars are unable to overtake or significantly pull away from something that is close to being a mini bus, which also apparently has far superior braking and cornering abilities.

I also had the same problem against similar cars with a stock Volvo C30 at Monza, it was beginning to get frustrating watching the AI literally stop at the chicanes, and half throttle down the straights. Not to mention my Youtube video of winning a race entirely in reverse gear against equally powered cars and yet with a weaker grade of tire.

Sorry for immediately throwing negativity into your thread, I know what you're trying to say, it's just that after all of my experience I find it hard to agree. I have had plenty of great, enjoyable races, but they are truly overshadowed by the sheer number of bad ones too. I have always tried to have a decent race by often having to put myself at what should be an enormous disadvantage. I'll leave this here though; I know I had some divebomb moments, sometimes the AI brakes unexpectedly early, but it was a lot of fun and made for a good replay. If the AI had some better spacial awareness of the player who is on the inside of a corner it would have been nearly perfect.

 

[FS7]

I'm just an average player, I use a DS3, ABS-1, all other aids off, manual transmission, cockpit view.
I prefer using stock cars, and most of the time I use default setup. I don't pay much attention to the PP limit, instead I tried to figure out the PP of the AI cars and use cars around the same performance level as the AI cars, sometimes I even used the exact same car used by the AI.

I always see the same boring bs in every career race: start in the back, pass a bunch of slow AI cars, be careful not to crash into them, take the lead after a couple of laps, then cruise until the end of the race. AI cars brake too early, are too slow around corners, and are totally unaware of other cars on the track. That's not realistic at all, real drivers drive the car on the limit, are aware of other cars on the track, and will get off the racing line in order to pass other cars and defend position.
The catch-up format only makes things worse. If I can start in the back of the grid, 20 seconds behind the leader, using the same exact car the AI is using with no upgrades and default setup, pass all the cars cleanly in a couple of laps and win, that's a clear sign that the AI sucks and needs improvement.

GT needs to have different levels of difficulty (being able to adjust AI pace & aggressiveness to match player's skill level), all other racing games have that, there's no excuse for not having a basic option like that in the game, that option would make the game more enjoyable to more people.
Also, having races that are closer to real life racing would be a massive improvement. Real life races have standing starts, balanced grids, damage, fuel/tire wear, and opponents that will give you a challenge.

The lack of those options is what ruins the racing portion of the game. To me GT6 is a game that's good for time trial only, if I want a proper race I have to go play something else.

 

[Imari]

To have a nice experience against the AI, I try to drive an equally powered car, safely and carefully. This means mostly following and overtaking only when clear and safe, sometimes only once or twice a lap. In this case, I expect not to win every race. This is life. To win, I would need to use a faster car, or capitalise on the mistakes from the AI. Assuming the AI to be experienced and cautious drivers, there should not be many mistakes from them. In fact they should appear to mostly run on rails and do safe predictable laps, much like I try to do.

The problem is that in order to get a challenge, a lot of people have to drive significantly underpowered cars compared to the competition. This, in addition to attempting to drive clean.

The rubber band largely destroys this element though. Choose a slower car, the AI will slow down for you. You've already identified that chase-the-rabbit is a problem, because if the player wants to have even a small chance of winning, they need a car that is significantly faster than the AI, and that precludes good racing.

The racecraft of the AI is fine. They need no rubber banding, proper standing or closely spaced rolling starts, qualifying,and then we can start talking. It's simply not possible to have a good race (defined as close battling with the AI) AND have even a small chance to win. The first requires that you have a car with a minimal speed difference to the AI, the second requires that you have a car that is 5+ seconds a lap faster.

It's bad game design, pure and simple. Races should be designed such that giving yourself a chance to win also results in good racing. As long as they're mutually exclusive, it doesn't matter what fancy code they get to drive the AI, it will be impossible to have a good race.

 

[Johnnypenso]

Controversial, but for me the offline AI gets a lot of undue negative feedback. I agree it’s not great at racing, however I think I realise what PD are trying to do, and why this works enough for them. I know I'll be in the minority, but this is just my thoughts about perhaps what PD may be trying to accomplish and why it fails for many. Some of this may be obvious and said already but this is only my feedback and review of a game I enjoy. Please don’t take it too seriously.

Essentially I think most of the negativity regarding the AI comes from players expectations set against the requirement to win every race. This sets up the situation where the player has to run an overpowered car or race dangerously or unrealistically to get to the front quickly just to progress through the game. For me this is not an enjoyable experience, so I set out to see what more I could get out of it instead.

I drive using the DFGT wheel with the squash ball mod in a custom made cockpit in front of a nice big screen. I use the cockpit view with HUD off so I feel I get a great sense immersion enjoying the pleasure of a track day driving cars I’ll likely never own in real life. While there are many other simulators that may simulate the physics better, GT gives me a nice range of cars I can experience. Consequently, I only drive cars with a detailed cockpit view.

Over time I have come to appreciate that GT actually simulates an open, ‘run-what-you've-brung’ track day fairly well. I don't enjoy driving race cars, and normally keep the cars fairly stock, with all zero assists and ABS0 on cars without ABS. This gives me a pretty good experience, and allows me some decent enough results to progress through the game. I'm not an alien, and will usually only manage bronze or silver on the seasonals, occasionally gold if I'm having a really good day.

To be able to get round a track quickly I need to enter corners slower, with smooth early braking into the corner. If I stomp on the brakes late the wheels will lock and I'll oversteer, which is what I expect in real life. So, when I drive in GT, I drive like I do in real life. This works well on a wheel with pedal resistance, however I imagine using controllers or wheels without brake pedal resistance will have some difficulty with threshold braking and end up pushing too hard and not feeling anything back. If the controller is not sensitive enough, it'll be easy pushing a brake pedal down too far, or to the floor, something I've only done on a real car in an emergency. If the wheels lock or the ABS has kicked in, I've overcooked the entry. Assuming the AI to be trying to represent competent drivers, they would also slow into corners earlier.

Furthermore, the more the car is tuned, the better performance round corners relative to the AI which I believe run mostly stock. Obviously, if using SRF or other aids, the effect would be magnified and the AI in comparison would be like rolling road blocks. This has the effect of a relative slow, cautious AI not expecting a tuned supercar with enhanced braking, grip and stability slamming into the back of them. Likewise, they will not expect a car braking so much later into a corner, or not following normal racing lines and will invariably cut into the player.

In effect, the AI appears to be driving much like a driver with stock tyres, ABS 0, and trying not to write their car off. Therefore when using a tuned car, ABS and track tyres we are able to brake later and harder in comparison to the AI, making the AI appear slow and overly cautious. To be fair, this is how it would appear if a track tuned sports car were to get stuck behind a bunch of stock street cars on a track day.

I think if the player drives more like they do in real life, and assume that the AI is running a stock car that they are trying not to damage, driving against the AI becomes quite reasonable. Not fantastic racing, but enjoyable enough for a realistic driving experience. Entering corners with the AI becomes predictable, as everyone is travelling at roughly the same speed and following the same rules.

I understand the complaint about the rubber banding, chase the rabbit element. When considered against the fact that most players are probably trying to win every race, this seems like a fair criticism. So this is where I think the PD design concept has become lost, as they have attempted to provide a game allowing average drivers the ability to win. In fact for progression in the game the player is required to win or podium. This is unfortunate I think, but understandable commercially.

To have a nice experience against the AI, I try to drive an equally powered car, safely and carefully. This means mostly following and overtaking only when clear and safe, sometimes only once or twice a lap. In this case, I expect not to win every race. This is life. To win, I would need to use a faster car, or capitalise on the mistakes from the AI. Assuming the AI to be experienced and cautious drivers, there should not be many mistakes from them. In fact they should appear to mostly run on rails and do safe predictable laps, much like I try to do.

Personally, I get more enjoyment out of a race against similarly powered cars over many laps, rather than simply getting a win against slower cars. If I invest 30 mins in a race, it doesn't matter to me if I win or not, as long as that 30 mins of my life is enjoyable and worth my time.

I am glad you found a way to enjoy the AI where most of us didn't. Like you, I also am much more interested in having a good race than in simply winning. Unfortunately the game also fails in that regard for me. The whole grid starting 30 seconds apart, the lead car taking off like he's shot out of a gun, the back of the pack so slow they often get lapped even in short races, AI slowing when you get alongside and giving up completely when you pass, completely destroys the illusion for me.
The AI should be nearly indistinguishable from a human driver. Grid Autosport has managed this on the PS3 but they have much lower graphics and much simpler physics and that's part of what holds GT's AI back. On the PS4 there will no longer be the excuse of insufficient computing power so we'll see what happens.

 

[Wide Boy]

The AI should be nearly indistinguishable from a human driver. Grid Autosport has managed this on the PS3 but they have much lower graphics and much simpler physics and that's part of what holds GT's AI back. On the PS4 there will no longer be the excuse of insufficient computing power so we'll see what happens.

I don't see it as a lack of computing power.
Wont be perfect because its not but the displayed "racing line" is generally not to bad.
If the AI just used this as its prompt on when to brake & accelerate it would be considerably faster than it is now.
They could tweak the racing line just by watching the cars to improve the corners the AI breaks really early on.

Cars accelerating at 2/3rds throttle down a straight & rubber banding are just PDs idea & getting rid of them would actually free up processing power.

Extra processing power & possibly a major AI overhaul would be things like how the AI performs off the racing line, as in during overtaking, or how it performs once its messed up.

Different types of AI driver dependant on class of powertrain, power & probably power to weight ratio.
AI Drivers can be made slower or faster by having slight variables on a few key factors & it would take up hardly any extra computing power as would just be a sort of "accuracy code" covering a few key points.
More accurate brakes later, gets on the power quicker, follows the line better, reacts quicker to wheel spin etc.
As some games have started doing you could give drivers characteristics so "King of the late brakers"

What I am saying is the poor AI is a game decision not a computing issue till you want to make the AI very good.

 

[GregOr1971]

I'm one of those who can get with AI. Could it be faster , yes, but then I can make my cars more realistic (slower?) by puting some realistic tires , like CH for everything less than 450 pp ,CM for everything up to 550-600 , CS for cars up to 650 and SH or SM for racing ones. Your cornering and acceleration abilities will be pretty much equal to AI (slower cornering and less acceleration out of turns) and that makes difference > you can't just zoom past them in turns as it happens with more gripy tires. Also lap times with those tires are much more realistic . It is worth a try.

No doubt PD could make AI faster or aggressive (it is there in GT1-4), but to my opinion , PD is looking for real life experience and they are not quite there yet.

For one , no sane person would be scratching ,denting, rubbing, crashing their million or 100k or 50k street car on a weekend trackday race (I wouldn't) > at least not deliberately.

And that's what all those leagues up to iA are about .Street cars trackdays.Clean and smooth driving without unnecesary crashing ,bumping,divebombing. They might be "boring" ,but if any of us (IRL casual drivers, not pro racers) would be driving own car in this kind of race , I guess It would be more than enough adventure. About lack of different difficulty levels. I think they are there ,but they are masked as > Beginner and nB = easy, nA and iB = medium , iA and S = hard .

IRL.There are pro-leagues > wtcc , nascar, demolition derby's ... where this kind of behaviour (rubbing is racing...) is acceptable , but you're not gonna see lot of that with LMP's , F1 ... because for one ,you bump anyone in those cars and you destroy aero . Destroy your aero and you're gonna have a pitstop to repair it. Pit stop time = loose a race. yet accidents can happen . I for one wouldn't like to have too agressive AI that looks every opportunity to take you out , just because someone think that is ok. There are many games out there that caters drivers who are looking for action time.

That said GT6 AI is ok for me .



PS: from time to time I like to boot some older games like SHIFT/GRID... and have 5 minutes of rumble in the jungle , but thats that. And judging from GRID A. forums (since it is latest driving game) , not everybody loves/like/can get along with GRID AI. So it is not that stellar after all .And I'm not judging that game , because I'm sure It is good fun ,but It caters players that are looking for a different kind of fun than I am looking.

EDIT some minor changes in wordings

 

[Morgoth_666]

...
On the PS4 there will no longer be the excuse of insufficient computing power so we'll see what happens.

Didn't everybody say this about the PS3?

OK, to be fair the AI has probably become a bit more complex than it used to be, it just hasn't really gotten better. At least not better in the sense of being faster, more agressive while not reckless, and generally more pleasant to share a piece of track with. Some might argue it's worse as a result of the rubber-banding. But therein lies the problem. All the computational power in the world won't help your company's prioritizing and decision-making. So with more power we tend to get much shiner graphics, slightly improved physics, and more of the same unbalanced grids with rolling starts staggered as each car passes the line using one-size-fits-all AI that intentionally drives the wrong line through the corners to make itself simultaneously both slow and difficult to get past.

 

[JamesLSn1]

what it seems like to me is that they put the fastest car infront, I remember they kept putting ferrari fxx 07 in first. Then you work threw field and as laps go on the ai get slower and slower.

 

[Johnnypenso]

Didn't everybody say this about the PS3?

OK, to be fair the AI has probably become a bit more complex than it used to be, it just hasn't really gotten better. At least not better in the sense of being faster, more agressive while not reckless, and generally more pleasant to share a piece of track with. Some might argue it's worse as a result of the rubber-banding. But therein lies the problem. All the computational power in the world won't help your company's prioritizing and decision-making. So with more power we tend to get much shiner graphics, slightly improved physics, and more of the same unbalanced grids with rolling starts staggered as each car passes the line using one-size-fits-all AI that intentionally drives the wrong line through the corners to make itself simultaneously both slow and difficult to get past.

Correct. When I say, "no excuse" I mean if they do head towards spit and polish and max the system out again with blooming flowers and individually programmed rain drops and micro accurate flies buzzing around the car, and the game itself sucks because they focused on everything but the racing, that's entirely on PD, not the system. With the PS3 they could always say, "the fans wanted a game that looked really good, better than anything else on the PS3, so we sacrificed a few things to get that". On the PS4 it's easily possible to get good gameplay and great graphics. No more excuses.

And judging from GRID A. forums (since it is latest driving game) , not everybody loves/like/can get along with GRID AI. So it is not that stellar after all .And I'm not judging that game , because I'm sure It is good fun ,but It caters players that are looking for a different kind of fun than I am looking.

That said GT6 AI is ok for me .

Not sure what Grid Autosport Forums you're reading but on the GTP forum the feedback is almost all overwhelmingly positive. The AI can be rough but they are super fast, competitive, and drive like real human beings most of the time. They don't slow to let you by, the pass and re-pass if they get the chance, the racing is white knuckle from start to finish most of the time. Yes some of them are aggressive, but generally if you avoid contacting them they avoid contacting you. It is the best AI I've ever seen in any racing game.

Since the game caters to all skill levels with scalable AI, I'm sure it could be tailored to every skill level and pace of racing. Most of the guys posting on GTP are looking for edge of your seat intensity so we've got the AI maxed out. That wouldn't suit everyone. To dismiss it as you have without even trying the game is ludicrous.

 

[NCRthree]

For months all I've been running has been Arcade races with Infinite lap count. I'll decide my "race" will be a certain time limit or lap count or whatever I feel like. Anyway, that rids the AI of the rubber banding at least. Sure, you can get a silly fast rabbit and some lame back markers too.

Then yesterday I ran one of the new seasonals. Gosh, I forgot how much I disliked the 5 lap dash for cash format. Then I took whatever car I had won the race with and ran an Arcade race. Just more fun for me. It took me significantly longer to work through the field.

Minor AI tweaks would be fine for how I use GT6 now. Like a track day. Mid corner and exit braking is still programmed for some AI. Horrible. That's absolutely the worst trait. Also, they are way too passive among themselves, taking way too long to pass a slower car.

Even with say 5 adjustable overall AI speeds, there's so much disparity among players that getting really close battles with the same vehicle would be really tough to accomplish.

 

[GregOr1971]

Not sure what Grid Autosport Forums you're reading but on the GTP forum the feedback is almost all overwhelmingly positive. The AI can be rough but they are super fast, competitive, and drive like real human beings most of the time. They don't slow to let you by, the pass and re-pass if they get the chance, the racing is white knuckle from start to finish most of the time. Yes some of them are aggressive, but generally if you avoid contacting them they avoid contacting you. It is the best AI I've ever seen in any racing game.

Intention of my post was not flaming GRID AUTOSPORT or any other game . If I can, I enjoy them all (for past 25 years). I mentioned GRID because for some members here it is next best thing. I don't doubt it is for you and many others , but as with all good things in this world ,you can't satisfy everyone and not everybody is looking for same experience ,so someones gold is other mans dirt.

Regarding forums> maybe you should take a good look on official GRID AUTOSPORT Codemasters forums > http://forums.codemasters.com/ I can tell you , not everybody is happy with agressive AI bombdiving on you .

While you're there you can also check bug reports , payouts problem, car damage/deteoration problems , gamesave corruption problems, online kids trolling troubles,absence of leaderboards (for now?) , graphics glitches ,AI car teleporting/rubberbanding problems , vasoline? cockpit wiev, complaints about car handling , lack of proper ffb... you would be surprised how those forums resembles GTP's epic "whinning" thread. Must be same people complaining everywhere

 

[Imari]

Intention of my post was not flaming GRID AUTOSPORT or any other game . If I can, I enjoy them all (for past 25 years). I mentioned GRID because for some members here it is next best thing.

As far as AI goes, on console it is. On a PS3 that's about the best AI you're gonna find.

All the other stuff that's wrong with G:AS is true too, but this is an AI thread talking about AI. On a PS3, Autosport is now the top dog as far as AI goes.

Some people don't like it, but some people don't like games that they can't hand the controller to the dog and have him win for them while they stuff their faces with chips and gurn.

 

[GregOr1971]

Some people don't like it, but some people don't like games that they can't hand the controller to the dog and have him win for them while they stuff their faces with chips and gurn.

I'll excuse you , for your ignorance and immature comment , because ,how could you possibly know I don't like neither "chips" or "gurn(?)" ,yet I have 4 dogs and none of them is really good in GT

That's said , if I hurt yours "whatever", by simply pointing that yours "next best thing" is not necessary everybody's"next best thing" and you missed part where I stated that I don't have problem with GRID A (yet there are many on CM forums that do not like this kind of AI ) , there is no need for any further discussion .

 

[Imari]

I'll excuse you , for your ignorance and immature comment , because ,how could you possibly know I don't like neither "chips" or "gurn(?)" ,yet I have 4 dogs and none of them is really good in GT

That's said , if I hurt yours "whatever", by simply pointing that yours "next best thing" is not necessary everybody's"next best thing" and you missed part where I stated that I don't have problem with GRID A (yet there are many on CM forums that do not like this kind of AI ) , there is no need for any further discussion .

You're missing the point entirely.

Yes, there are some people that don't like it. For every nice thing, I bet you can find at least one person that doesn't like it. So let's put that to one side, and try to be objective for a little bit.

Objectively, the AI in Grid:AS is the best we have available on console at producing close racing.
It generally obeys racing rules, moreso than your average human player. Not all the time, it must be admitted.
On the whole it appears to be using equal machinery and not cheating.
It makes mistakes and has natural variation in it's lines and laptimes, but not so much that it's obviously scripted.
It can be adjusted to suit a range of players, from "can barely keep it on the track" to "you better be an alien if you want to keep up". At full pace it's mostly unbelievably quick, so quick that you'd think it was cheating if you didn't know that the times it does were set by one of the Codemasters staff.

Objectively, that is a better AI system in terms of producing close, fair, exciting racing than the GT6 system. That some people prefer the GT6 system is beside the point. Those people will always exist, and what they're looking for is not close racing.

 

[GregOr1971]

You're missing the point entirely.

Yes, there are some people that don't like it. For every nice thing, I bet you can find at least one person that doesn't like it. So let's put that to one side, and try to be objective for a little bit.

Objectively, the AI in Grid:AS is the best we have available on console at producing close racing.
It generally obeys racing rules, moreso than your average human player. Not all the time, it must be admitted.
On the whole it appears to be using equal machinery and not cheating.
It makes mistakes and has natural variation in it's lines and laptimes, but not so much that it's obviously scripted.
It can be adjusted to suit a range of players, from "can barely keep it on the track" to "you better be an alien if you want to keep up". At full pace it's mostly unbelievably quick, so quick that you'd think it was cheating if you didn't know that the times it does were set by one of the Codemasters staff.

Objectively, that is a better AI system in terms of producing close, fair, exciting racing than the GT6 system. That some people prefer the GT6 system is beside the point. Those people will always exist, and what they're looking for is not close racing.

That was well said and joy to read.

Even if I can't totally agree with your view , let us not drag this further into those x vs y debates , because they are usually fruitless and I feel kinda guilty, pointing on GA in the first place .
We should rather enjoy a nice cold beer on such a hot day

-end of transmission-

 

[rizzo]

Some people don't like it, but some people don't like games that they can't hand the controller to the dog and have him win for them while they stuff their faces with chips and gurn.

Sorry for OT but what is gurn?

 

[Imari]

Sorry for OT but what is gurn?

http://lmgtfy.com/?q=gurn

 

[FSportIS]

I have read this thread and agree with most of the saying.

I believe the system is mainly set up for novice to have a chance to win the race so for anyone who is already efficient and fast, winning the race is just too easy. Even though, the AIs will become faster once the players take the lead. It still makes very crazy moves such as rear ending, crashing to you intentionally which make the race just damn dirty.

Problems are paramount but I can still enjoy racing against the AIs with a different mind set.
1. I treat the AIs as moving chicane or movable corners. I try to pass them cleanly with no contact. From doing that, I improve my sense of speed, learn better about accelerating and braking.
2. Once I take the lead, the AIs will intentionally rear end me and all that, then I treat the AIs as rockets or human bombs. I will try to drive and maintain my driving line but at the same time move left/right to avoid them crashing into me. This task is not easy as it sounds but this gives some challenge.
3. I don't focus on winning anymore. I rather focus on improving my own driving and treat AIs as obstacles and not opponents. Golding the race is then a natural product.

 

[Charlie A]

Guess what happened today with the AI in my game... I was doing a seasonal event and they kept running off the track and one rammed me off the track even...

 

[dddsprayshop]

Guess what happened today with the AI in my game... I was doing a seasonal event and they kept running off the track and one rammed me off the track even...

I've had the same thing.
Thinking about it, also got around a corner and a car was in the middle of the track doing nothing, or trying to start again.

Some are complaining about AI.
what i noticed to the AI at the seasonal events.
They don't drive the perfect line anymore, makes it more difficult to overtake them anywere you want.
Yes they drive slow and you can catch up, but what does the leader do when you overtook him? He comes and chases you, even bumps your rear to throw you off track.
Ai overshoots corner, they brake too late or enter the corner(s) too fast.

Lets think about the GT5 AI.
Slow with a fast leader, Always following the perfect line, if you close in on Ai, and touch the rear, the AI goes to the side so you can overtake him easy.
If you past the leader, he keeps the same pace like before.

My oppinion? GT6 Ai is more realistic then GT5's AI.
GT6 Ai is agressive, Random, makes mistakes, just like real racers.

I made a Mod once for GTA San Andreas, A dragtrack were you could race against a AI car.
First program line made you always win or always loose.( you could change complete car handling and speed in that game, so fast cheating cars would always win)
I had to create some random algoritms, read speed from your car, make an calculation, take a random speed from the result for 1 second and start algoritm again.It took me weeks or months for this algoritm.
The result was that you win between 30% and 50%.
And this was just for a dragrace?

My point, AI programming is not that simple.
Point of AI is that everybody should have a small chance to win races.
And yes, pro drivers win with ease, but do they remember when they first started?
Do not forget, GT6 gamers are not between the age of 16 and 26.
The players are between the age of 3 (minimum age othe the box) and 70+ (GTP-Geezers club)

 

[Charlie A]

I've had the same thing.
Thinking about it, also got around a corner and a car was in the middle of the track doing nothing, or trying to start again.

Some are complaining about AI.
what i noticed to the AI at the seasonal events.
They don't drive the perfect line anymore, makes it more difficult to overtake them anywere you want.
Yes they drive slow and you can catch up, but what does the leader do when you overtook him? He comes and chases you, even bumps your rear to throw you off track.
Ai overshoots corner, they brake too late or enter the corner(s) too fast.

Lets think about the GT5 AI.
Slow with a fast leader, Always following the perfect line, if you close in on Ai, and touch the rear, the AI goes to the side so you can overtake him easy.
If you past the leader, he keeps the same pace like before.

My oppinion? GT6 Ai is more realistic then GT5's AI.
GT6 Ai is agressive, Random, makes mistakes, just like real racers.

I made a Mod once for GTA San Andreas, A dragtrack were you could race against a AI car.
First program line made you always win or always loose.( you could change complete car handling and speed in that game, so fast cheating cars would always win)
I had to create some random algoritms, read speed from your car, make an calculation, take a random speed from the result for 1 second and start algoritm again.It took me weeks or months for this algoritm.
The result was that you win between 30% and 50%.
And this was just for a dragrace?

My point, AI programming is not that simple.
Point of AI is that everybody should have a small chance to win races.
And yes, pro drivers win with ease, but do they remember when they first started?
Do not forget, GT6 gamers are not between the age of 16 and 26.
The players are between the age of 3 (minimum age othe the box) and 70+ (GTP-Geezers club)

I agree, GT6 AI is more realistic that GT5's.

 

[Johnnypenso]

I've had the same thing.
Thinking about it, also got around a corner and a car was in the middle of the track doing nothing, or trying to start again.

Some are complaining about AI.
what i noticed to the AI at the seasonal events.
They don't drive the perfect line anymore, makes it more difficult to overtake them anywere you want.
Yes they drive slow and you can catch up, but what does the leader do when you overtook him? He comes and chases you, even bumps your rear to throw you off track.
Ai overshoots corner, they brake too late or enter the corner(s) too fast.

Lets think about the GT5 AI.
Slow with a fast leader, Always following the perfect line, if you close in on Ai, and touch the rear, the AI goes to the side so you can overtake him easy.
If you past the leader, he keeps the same pace like before.

My oppinion? GT6 Ai is more realistic then GT5's AI.
GT6 Ai is agressive, Random, makes mistakes, just like real racers.

I made a Mod once for GTA San Andreas, A dragtrack were you could race against a AI car.
First program line made you always win or always loose.( you could change complete car handling and speed in that game, so fast cheating cars would always win)
I had to create some random algoritms, read speed from your car, make an calculation, take a random speed from the result for 1 second and start algoritm again.It took me weeks or months for this algoritm.
The result was that you win between 30% and 50%.
And this was just for a dragrace?

My point, AI programming is not that simple.
Point of AI is that everybody should have a small chance to win races.
And yes, pro drivers win with ease, but do they remember when they first started?
Do not forget, GT6 gamers are not between the age of 16 and 26.
The players are between the age of 3 (minimum age othe the box) and 70+ (GTP-Geezers club)

The solution is rather simple. Create the best AI you can, difficultly slider to adjust to your skill level, and individual sliders for AI aggression, error rate, passing, defending etc. It's been done in other games, no reason PD can't do the same. One-size-fits-all AI ends up not really working for anyone.

 

[dddsprayshop]

The solution is rather simple. Create the best AI you can, difficultly slider to adjust to your skill level, and individual sliders for AI aggression, error rate, passing, defending etc. It's been done in other games, no reason PD can't do the same. One-size-fits-all AI ends up not really working for anyone.

You are absolutely right.
But now the question remains, what will PD do?
We say, no reason, is it? Is there no reason? I don't know, and do we get an answer?
I was bummed out that there were no season events like in GT5, now we got the A-spec events.
It's a start, not like i wished for ( missing car tickets, why not silver=paint and gold is a car), maybe we get lucky and the Ai will get an interface menu like you mention?
You must agree, the AI is ( a bit) better then in GT5.

bey, gonna upload some clips to my account.

 

[Rhykus Finlay]

Should PD just start outsourcing some of this stuff to other developers? Would it really be so horrible to reduce the workload on themselves? 1,200 cars (premium or not) is more than almost any other game ever, and they're still gunning for advanced physics and whatnot. Unless the entire company is actually lazy, they've bitten off more than they can chew.

AI would probably be better if they could focus on it, seems like they're trying to do everything at once.

 

[Johnnypenso]

You are absolutely right.
But now the question remains, what will PD do?
We say, no reason, is it? Is there no reason? I don't know, and do we get an answer?
I was bummed out that there were no season events like in GT5, now we got the A-spec events.
It's a start, not like i wished for ( missing car tickets, why not silver=paint and gold is a car), maybe we get lucky and the Ai will get an interface menu like you mention?
You must agree, the AI is ( a bit) better then in GT5.

bey, gonna upload some clips to my account.

We can only speculate as to what they'll do, or even if they think it's an issue. I would not be surprised to see the exact same AI in GT7 and beyond with only slight tweaking so they can advertise that they have "Brand NEW AI!!". I don't race offline in GT, the AI is too horrible. In Grid Autosport I race almost exclusively offline because the AI is competitive and challenging and on pace, if a little too aggressive.