Nascar Latemodel Vector *WIP*

[whitsonracing]

Hey guys havent been around here lately. Been doing things trying to find a day job and stuff. Ive been working on this latemodel vector also. Its about 40% done with. Once its done with the design behind it, I will probably sell a design like this for 200-400 dollars. To race teams of course.

Stage4

 

[kennythebomb]

Is it me or does the text not sit at quite the right angle?

 

[whitsonracing]

well since it is a WIP I just put my business name on there real quick so no one steals it in its current stage.

 

[donbenni]

I could remove that watermark in 5 mins in Photoshop, and i agree i doesn't help with the persp. angle of the image.

200-400 bucks is a lot, you got any finished pics of previous works that would sell for a similar amount?

 

[whitsonracing]

actually no this is why I am creating these example images. Well the basic freelance graphic design rates are from 20-30 dollars an hour. If you lower it too much you kind of hurt the business and economy of freelance graphic design. The fact of the matter is that this image when finished will probably take me for right now like 10-12 hours. I wont charge by hour just a one time charge. This guy who used to do hero cards for irwindale would charge like 300-400 dollars for the design. And all he would do is take a good photo and add some design too it. Something I could do well under a hour and a half. But this is going to have a back ground design with a name and such.

 

[donbenni]

Ok look. I've been freelancing for 3 years, and trust me you can ask for any price you want but you have to have a buyer who's willing to pay for it.

My vectors taken up to 30 hours and other people in this sector charge up to 65$ an hour. So is 1950$ a rational amount to charge for for what is "just a picture of a car"? Most industries work by people paying for what something is worth to them. But i've yet to find someone who thinks my pics are worth that. This is why i charge 50 - 100$.

If you can convince the race teams that they want them then you're onto a winner. But don't go into this thinking that you will get what you want.

 

[whitsonracing]

Well lets say your not doing this for a local latemodel racer or something. And your doing this for a larger racing team. Maybe a nextel cup team or a busch series team now. Now lets say you do a design for them, maybe its a t-shirt or a series of shirts. Or a sponsor proposal design. Now your helping them make more than just 400 dollars. If you help land someone a sponsor deal where the sponsor is putting out millions of dollars, and you were one of the people that helped the team get that sponsor. Doesn't 2000-3000 dollars justify your design.

Its kind of like guitars. Nice sweet guitars, see a guitar in materials probably only costs a total of 400 dollars. But they sell them for nearly 3000 dollars. Why? Because they are hand made, there's labor involved. Each one has its own unique sense to it. The reason why people go spend 3000 dollars for that guitar is because its one of a kind. Its custom made basically. A design is custom made, it takes time and effort. And if people are coming to you for something they can't do themselves. Like working magic in Illustrator CS2 or Corel Draw. And all they want to pay you for, for your weeks long work of an artist rendering is a mere 100 dollars. Then you should tell them that finding someone to make what they want for just 100 dollars is going to next to impossible.

But then theres the person who charges near bare minimum. And this is where I was talking about lowering the overall business and economy of freelance graphic design. If you lower your prices just because people are shying from your rate it hurts the business as a whole. Now lowering your prices to get yourself started is acceptable but maintaining this rate for years will hurt our business. Theres no way in hell I will sit here for hours on end to do an artists rendering of someones car that is completely custom for 100 dollars. Thats like 5 dollars an hour for 20 hours of work. Thats far below any minimum wage in the US. Thats what a hobbyist would charge. If that.

But pertaining to my original post, regardless of my little watermark. I haven't had any criticism on the car itself.

 

[franz]

There is nothing wrong with the low price, specially when you are a newbie in the industry, but you can charge people at standard cost once you have enough reputation or something. Anyway, do you guys ask your customers for down payment before you work on the project?

 

[kennythebomb]

But pertaining to my original post, regardless of my little watermark. I haven't had any criticism on the car itself.

It looks fine to me

 

[whitsonracing]

My take is, I give them a little example. Something convincing that will catch their attention. This is where you can lose though, since they haven't paid you and might not like it. I might usually do two examples and they usually say what they want to give it a go. And I ask for a charge. No hourly rate just a charge based on the content.

I agree that a newbie or starter should charge lower with no rep. But I was using donbenni as a example because he stated that his work takes 30 hours. Anyone who does 30 hour renderings of cars deffinately are including a lot of detail in their work. They should charge 250+ at least.

 

[donbenni]

I've been requesting 200+$ for designs for a while and it's just not happening. Like i said if you can get the people to pay several thousand dollars for a design then it's great. I sell all my stuff straight to the end user which is why i don't get paid what it's worth. I just don't think there is enough of a desire for companies to spend lots of money on what is just a picture of a car.

Just out of interest: Do you know of any teams that want this sort of thing? Or are you just hoping there's a market there?

 

[breakpoint]

Doesn't such teams that are involved with nascar have people that are employed to do such things?

 

[whitsonracing]

Well every single piece of merchandise a company has, the logos, the shirts, hats, cars, trucks everything. Is designed up by someone on a computer. All artwork is designed by someone. Be it someone who is fully employed by them or someone that is not. See sometimes people don't have designers hired and this is why they hire people outside of their business. Teams usually go to people for sponsor proposal designs thats real big. One notable person who does this is the Sam Bass company. But just saying its just a picture of a car is kind of shooting down the art at its knees. Its a rendering, a artists rendering of what they see in the car. The colors, the shapes.

And you also have to think about concept design. Theres a market for concept artists as well. They charge up to 1000 dollars for a simple design of someones concept of a car. A new custom car like a hotrod and such.

 

[donbenni]

You didn't actually answer if you know of companies that are willing to buy these sort of designs. From my time freelancing i've found it hard to get professional high level companies interested in doing business with "some internet designer". They can get similar prices from a professional design company and the safety and reliability that comes with it. Your work will have to be very very special to temp them away from that. Either that or your prices e.g. making them a lot lower, hence the original question.

And it's a very fair point from breakpoint that a lot of them probably already have a preferred design company that do stuff for them. If they don't then you may have a window of opportunity, but don't just hope this is the case, go and find out.

I'm not trying to crush your idea, but from my experience freelancing isn't as easy as just doing work and asking for money.

 

[breakpoint]

Thats really what i was asking just in fewer words. Don't all of the major sports such as Nascar have actuall design firms that handle all of the PR and such for them? If not then that would seem to insue totall chaos within the whole structure as far as getting things done and commitment to whatever driver\company. Plus i do believe that the sponsors would choose the schemes and such seeing that they are the money backing on these cars. Let's take Dale Jr. Ok budweiser, do you think that budweiser is going to let someone that have they never heard of do a design for theyre sponsored car? No, they have a graphics department that will make the bud logo appear at every possible angle and also make an appealing design. It's all about money and they pay heavily to have that car. Not knocking you either, just pointing out that in a major market like that there is just no room for freelancers. I freelance photography, mainly weddings. I can usually get a minimum of 600 dollars for a wedding shoot, without photoshop. For every picture that i touch on the pc i will charge per what they want done since every picture won't be the same its not fair that i have a base price. Now 600 is cheap for the quality they will get, but now that ive been doing it for a while i have no trouble getting work because word of mouth. Was hard at first because i told them the price and they asked why i was so much cheaper, it scares people because they think you are horrible so you charge little.

 

[whitsonracing]

This guy dave I have been talking to does exactly what I have been saying. Heres a sample of his work. http://www.deviantart.com/deviation/47269758/?qo=36&q=by:graphicwolf&qh=sort:time+-in:scraps

And what I am talking about has nothing to do with any corporation PR divisions. I am talking about race teams, the barebones race team. Sure a race team has PR people and stuff. But how many race teams have a graphic design division of staff. The money is in the designs to get a sponsor. Rarely to design a car that is already sponsored. A team comes to you saying we need this design with these colors for this company. We need 3 layouts. Thats where money is at in freelancing with motorsports. Now if you get this highly credited name in the industry. Then hell maybe a company will hire you full time full salary. Maybe you can get a few t-shirt designs done for people. I am not talking about one unknown person doing graphic design for a sponsor the team already has. Its about helping the team get the sponsor. And without your help they wont get it. I will also be doing sponsor proposal packets. Basically some numbers of the sport, demographics, designs. The mission statement if you will. In freelancing you have to find the place where there is a graphic designer needed, but only needed for a short amount of time.

 

[donbenni]

You're not really listening, so i'm not really going to keep trying.

Keep the pic updated as you progress, would be interested to see how it comes out.

 

[exigeracer]

But just saying its just a picture of a car is kind of shooting down the art at its knees. Its a rendering, a artists rendering of what they see in the car. The colors, the shapes.

This, however, is a good point.

 

[mwoodski]

Looks good, any tips on how to do this?

 

[whitsonracing]

I am very much so listening and reading your replies. Its just the fact that I highly disagree with you, and you disagree with me. Some race teams go to a business, the business charges them gobs of money. Their work most likely will turn out custom, but not personal like a designer being completely one on one with the people. Ever watch american chopper, who does the paint work on their bikes. That nubs guy right, hes doing one on one business with them so their work is as perfect and spot on as they imagine it. They could send their design to some business and tell them I need this and that. And maybe their work will not turn out spot on because the artist doing the work is doing that project this day and another project the other day. Reputation builds anything in any business world. You need to establish that reputation. But the opinion I am kind of feeling from you is that having a graphic design service is dang near irrational as a business. In which I highly disagree with.

Fire I didn't see your post until I posted my reply. I don't want to double post.

 

[breakpoint]

Well, far as i can go on asking questions and trying to figure out everything. So keep a pic of the progress posted up so we can see whats going on and also keep us informed if anything happens as far as getting a design picked up and such.

 

[mwoodski]

I am very much so listening and reading your replies. Its just the fact that I highly disagree with you, and you disagree with me. Some race teams go to a business, the business charges them gobs of money. Their work most likely will turn out custom, but not personal like a designer being completely one on one with the people. Ever watch american chopper, who does the paint work on their bikes. That nubs guy right, hes doing one on one business with them so their work is as perfect and spot on as they imagine it. They could send their design to some business and tell them I need this and that. And maybe their work will not turn out spot on because the artist doing the work is doing that project this day and another project the other day. Reputation builds anything in any business world. You need to establish that reputation. But the opinion I am kind of feeling from you is that having a graphic design service is dang near irrational as a business. In which I highly disagree with.

Fire I didn't see your post until I posted my reply. I don't want to double post.

It's okay man, I can wait.