New Drifter - Help is appreciated

[MAlandM]

Hello,
I am very new to drifting (other than sometimes, I drift by accident but manage to hold it ^_^) and I am looking for good cars to start drifting with. I've heard the Nissan 370Z is good, but I'm looking for a good drifting tune for the car, as normal tunes and drifting tunes are usually different (right?). Or, if you think there's a better car at drifting, or that you just recommend as it is just as fun, or more fun, then please state the name of the car and the drifting tune that would go with it.

Also, I don't have that Logitech G27 steering wheel thingy. Will that affect the tunes?

Also, if you have any tips for how to start a drift (or hold one), I would also appreciate that a lot too!

Also, (sorry for the so many alsos) is it possible to drift with Automatic and not Manual? I've never played with Manual before... should I start learning how to play with manual instead before I start drifting?

Thank you!
~Mal

P.S. I searched the forums and came across a couple of answers, but my situation varies a little as I don't have a G27 steering wheel, and I have some additional questions that I have not found.

 

[twitcher]

Welcome to the GTP drift board!

It's good that you searched the forums first, that definitely a step in the right direction. My number one tip would be to keep reading. There is a ton of great info in these forums. Read the stickies about tuning. Check out Team KYOKI's team thread (can be found under the "drifting teams and meets" subforum), as there is a good tuning guide in there as well. A guy named Shmogt has some good info in his drift tuning garage (go to the tuning forum, and search Shmogt). Being a master tuner does not necessarily make you a better drifter, but reading those pages may help familiarize you with some of the drifting terminology, which will make learning easier for you.

Check out the video on YouTube called "Drift Bible". It's about real life drifting, but it is a comprehensive guide to all types of drifting techniques, and covers all different ways of initiating a drift (from beginner techniques to advanced techniques).

If you've been reading the forums, I'm sure you've come across the tire debate. There is not "right" or "best" tire to drift on, it's all personal preference. That said, if you want to progress to the highest level of drifting, join 'tandem' rooms ('tandem' is when two or more cars drift side by side) and compete in competitions, then use comfort hard tires.

As far as the 370z is concerned, yes, it is a very good drift car. It, along with the 350z, which is almost identical in handling, are arguably two of the best overall drift cars in GT5. That said, the 370 is notorious for having a somewhat tricky powerband and tranny to tune. If you really want to use one of those cars as your starter car, I'd suggest tuning it to around 400-450 bhp, and avoid using the supercharger to start. It makes the throttle response very touchy, which can be difficult for beginners.

My car suggestion to you would be to use the premium Nissan PS13 Silvia K's Dia Selection. Put all upgrades on it (use the mid range turbo), and tune the bhp to around 400, maybe a little under. Go into the "drift settings depot" (stickied at the top of this forum) and find the "universal S-chassis tune" (found under the Nissan section in the drift depot) and put that tune on your car. That car with that tune is very stable and controllable...and it's what I used to learn in.

Don't worry that you don't have a G27, or any kind of wheel for that matter. A wheel is not necessary to drift. Many, probably the majority, of drifters on GTP use controllers. It's actually easier to drift with a controller than a wheel (wheel drifting is one of the toughest things to do in GT5).

As far as auto vs manual transmission, I'm afraid you're out of luck...start learning to use manual. A manual tranny is pretty much essential to drifting. Shmogt does a good job of explaining why in his drifting garage.

Hope that helps, good luck.

 

[MAlandM]

Thank you! That's about all I needed.

That was a very detailed explanation. I'm really impressed and greatful. And I will start to try out manual and get used to it before starting to drift.

 

[nuvio]

Also try practicing online if your intent is drifting with others. The physics online are just a bit different. I mean I practiced with my wheel for a couple months offline, and then hopped online and failed pretty bad, it's hard to explain what's different but definitely I noticed grip loss was a little different.

Good luck!

 

[MAlandM]

Why do I always hit the wall? Any tips please? Should I change to manual now? Will that fix it? Sorry for all the questions.

 

[Nismo34]

Manual will give you more control over the power of the car, so yes, it is reccomended you try and learn to drive manual.

A guy named Shmogt has some good info in his drift tuning garage (go to the tuning forum, and search Shmogt).

Agreed, this guy has a heap of tunes and seem decent, however they are mostly point scoring tunes which may vary to what you want in the way of just drifting.

 

[MAlandM]

I just want to have fun really (while drifting that is). By the way, I figured out how to stop spinning: I stopped using the PS13 and started using the 370Z. Its one thousand times better! I don't think I even need to go manual, I'm not hitting the walls anymore, or spinning. The one problem is when I try to go straight, sometimes it starts drifting when I'm trying to go in a straight line. Any tips to overcome that problem?

 

[twitcher]

Why do I always hit the wall? Any tips please? Should I change to manual now? Will that fix it? Sorry for all the questions.

Lol. Sorry to laugh, but that's too broad of a question answer. What track, what wall, inside wall or outside wall? If it's an outside wall that you're hitting, then I'd have to guess you're entering the corner with too much speed.

For just starting out, here are a few track recommendations:

Tsukuba is considered the by most to be the best starter track. It has a good variety of corners, and more importantly, there is very little elevation change and banking (both of these types of terrain present additional challenges that are slightly beyond beginner status).

For a true beginner though, I would suggest practicing at turn one of Deep Forest, and/or the s-turn on High Speed Ring. For starters, don't even bother trying to drift the rest of those tracks (HSR is not really a drift track, and The rest of Deep Forest is actually quite advanced)

Keep in mind, if you're not crashing and spinning out, you're not learning to drift. You will spin off the track hundreds if not thousands of times througout the learning process. Also remember that you won't learn overnight. Most people on these forums will agree that it takes practicing a few hours a day, almost every day, for about 1-2 months to really get the hang of things. It can take months and months, if not years, to master advanced techniques like tandeming, massive e-brake entries and reverse entries. For me, that's one of the biggest appeals of drifting...no matter how good you are, there is always areas to improve and new things to learn.

Manual will give you more control over the power of the car, so yes, it is reccomended you try and learn to drive manual.

Agreed, this guy has a heap of tunes and seem decent, however they are mostly point scoring tunes which may vary to what you want in the way of just drifting.

Yes, I agree that Shmogt's tunes are aimed more at point scoring than just drifting. Most of his cars are extemely high powered, and I would consider them for more advanced drifters. I was referring the OP to his garage more for the write-ups on drifting techniques, as well as the write-up on why a manual tranny is so important.

Edit: saw that you posted while I was writing. If the 370 is working for you, then great. The PS13 is just another option, but it's not for everyone.

If you a spinning out while trying to drive in a straight line, it's because you are applying too much throttle. Drifting (especially on CH tires) is all about throttle control. Try "feathering" (ie pressing lightly, on tapping repeatedly) te throttle, and you should find yourself gaining more control.

 

[MAlandM]

Ah. Ok. Great! Thanks for all the help! Gonna start practicing drifting now. First, in Automatic, then I'll practice Manual with a normal car (cos I've never driven a manual car in my life) and then drifting with a manual car.

Shmogt's tips at the beginning of his tuning garage also helped me a lot. And yeah, I used to hit the outside wall (not anymore). I'll try the RS13 again soon and see if I have improved with that car.

Is there a difference between drifting and power sliding?

 

[MSTER232]

Hello,
I am very new to drifting (other than sometimes, I drift by accident but manage to hold it ^_^) and I am looking for good cars to start drifting with. I've heard the Nissan 370Z is good, but I'm looking for a good drifting tune for the car, as normal tunes and drifting tunes are usually different (right?). Or, if you think there's a better car at drifting, or that you just recommend as it is just as fun, or more fun, then please state the name of the car and the drifting tune that would go with it.

Also, I don't have that Logitech G27 steering wheel thingy. Will that affect the tunes?

Also, if you have any tips for how to start a drift (or hold one), I would also appreciate that a lot too!

Also, (sorry for the so many alsos) is it possible to drift with Automatic and not Manual? I've never played with Manual before... should I start learning how to play with manual instead before I start drifting?

Thank you!
~Mal

P.S. I searched the forums and came across a couple of answers, but my situation varies a little as I don't have a G27 steering wheel, and I have some additional questions that I have not found.

Dear MAlandM,

Welcome to the GT5 Drifting Forum! Since you don't have a Force Feedback steering wheel of any kind, it will affect your tunes slightly, since using a steering wheel will offer precise steering.

DS3 users tend to have more rough steering patters and rely on a "flicking" method of the left stick to maintain a drift. Flicking it quickly but would roughly be equal to countersteering just a little bit with a steering wheel. Flicking the L stick slower and hold it longer is equal to countersteering a lot with a steering wheel.

Also, it's usually a good idea to learn to play GT5 with a manual transmission, because you won't end up changing gears when you don't want to or not changing gears when you do want to. Plus it will offer you more control over your drifts and therefore, your drifting style will be considerably more smooth.

If you're looking for good drift cars to start with, you can use:

• Nissan 350 Z / Fairlady Z (Z33)
• Nissan 370Z / Fairlady Z (Z34)
• Nissan SILVIA (S15)
• Toyota Supra
• Mazda RX-7 Spirit R (If you intend to enter professional drift comps then be aware that most comps will ban this car)

If you are having trouble finding a setup for these cars, then check this thread out, where GTP'ers can post their drift car setups:

https://www.gtplanet.net/forum/showthread.php?t=135527

If the day shall come that you will start drifting with a wheel, then check this thread out for wheel-only setups:

https://www.gtplanet.net/forum/showthread.php?t=177858

If you are still having problems drifting, then PM me and I could possibly give you some drift lessons using a DS3 when I get a break from organising my new drift team .

Yours Sincerely,

MSTER232

EDIT:

I just want to have fun really (while drifting that is). By the way, I figured out how to stop spinning: I stopped using the PS13 and started using the 370Z. Its one thousand times better! I don't think I even need to go manual, I'm not hitting the walls anymore, or spinning. The one problem is when I try to go straight, sometimes it starts drifting when I'm trying to go in a straight line. Any tips to overcome that problem?

This isn't Mario Kart Wii. You have to learn accelerator control in order to avoid the car oversteering when you don't want it too. If you have excess oversteer going into a corner, try raising or stiffening the rear suspension which will reduce body roll and create more understeer at the back (or in this case, correcting excess oversteer).

 

[MAlandM]

Thank you for the help!

I've been practicing at Tsubaka and I've been improving. Just need help with one thing:

How do I use manual when drifting? Do I stay at the same gear throughout the drift? Shift up? Shift down? Please help! Thanks!

 

[twitcher]

Thank you for the help!

I've been practicing at Tsubaka and I've been improving. Just need help with one thing:

How do I use manual when drifting? Do I stay at the same gear throughout the drift? Shift up? Shift down? Please help! Thanks!

To begin with, try to stay in the same gear through the corner. This is the main advantage of the manual tranny...it helps keep the drift constistant, and stable, because there are no unexpected gear changes.

As you become more comfortable with both the manual tranny and with drifting in general, you will get a feel for if and when you should shift up or down during the drift.

Some "advanced techniques" involve using the tranny, and gear changes, to manipulate the drift. Generally, shifting up (and applying throttle) will increase your drift angle, but can lead to excess oversteer, which leads to spin outs. Shifting down (and backing off the throttle) can help reduce excess oversteer and bring the car back under control, this preventing spin outs. However, downshifting at the wrong time can lead to understeer, which can lead to wash-outs (where the front tires lose grip and start to "push" through the corner)

Like I said, to start with, try to work on keeping the tranny in the same gear through the corner (it's ok if the RPM are bouncing off the rev limiter). Changing gears mid drift will come into play when you start trying to link multiple corners together with one continuous drift.

A very loose rule of thumb (it really depends on how you tune your tranny) is that you use 2nd gear for slow corners (like the 2nd and 3rd hairpins on Tsukuba), 3rd and 4th are your main gears for medium speed corners, and 5th for high speed sweeping corners. Most people rarely use 6th, except for drifting down long straights. 1st is hardly used, except for very very tight corners (like turn-1 at the Nurb GP course, or the hair pin on Cote d'Azure)

Hope that helps

 

[MAlandM]

Yup that really helped (that wasn't sarcastic). Thanks!

Now I just need to keep practicing and stop oversteering and spinning (with cars other than the 370Z that is, aka the rubbish ones). Good to know I don't have to add gear changes to the list of things to worry about when drifting (at least, not until the more advanced levels).

 

[twitcher]

Glad I could help.

Out of curiosity, what kind of controller layout are you using? When I was just beginning, I had a certain controller layout that I'd used since I was a kid, but I reached a certain point in drifting where I wasn't able to do enough things at the same time...so I had to come up with a new layout. Driving with the new layout set me back quite a bit.

I don't think there's any perfect layout, but there is one "combo" you will need to be able to do comfortably. You need to be able to hand-brake, foot-brake, and down-shift, all at the same time. You probably won't run into this until you start trying to do longer hand-brake entries into corners, but it kind of sucks to get to that point and realize you have to change your layout. That's what happened to me For weeks after switching, I was always pressing the wrong buttons and spinning. I figure if you're gonna switch, do it at the start 👍

 

[MAlandM]

I use the default layout.

Square for brake, Circle for handbrake, Triangle for Reverse gear, R2 to shift up and L2 to shift down.

But wouldn't shifting down at the same time as breaking (your layout) be the same as automatic? That's basically what happens in auto, when you break, your gear goes down. Also, I'm not gonna be drifting with all my cars, so if I want to do an endurance race, will the layout still be the same? Or can I have different layouts for each car (doubt I could do that)?

 

[twitcher]

Ok, I think I've confused you a little...how do I explain this?

I am not always downshifting and braking at the same time. That is a scenario that presents itself at certain corners, and is only really encountered doing long, high-speed entries into corners (not a beginner technique).

You are somewhat correct in thinking that downshifting while braking with a manual is similar to the actions of an auto tranny, but only in very basic principle.

The main reason for using a manual tranny when drifting is that you, the driver, have complete control of if and when gear changes occur, and also have control over which gear you are shifting into. The auto tranny does not offer this degree of control. It will shift when the computer thinks it is ideal (it measures how fast the car is traveling, and what the RPM are, and then selects what it considers to be the ideal gear). While this is fine for all but the highest levels of grip driving, it does not work for drifting. Unexpected and untimely gear changes, along with the tranny selecting what it considers to be the best gear (but may actually not be the best for the drift you are trying to execute) will usually cause you to lose the drift and probably crash.

For you, just starting out, you shouldn't really have to worry about shifting mid-drift. Using the first corner at Tsukuba as an example - you should select the gear you want to drift the corner with (probably 2nd or 3rd, depending on the car and tranny setting) as you are heading up the little hill. Drift the corner complete in that gear.

The scenario that I was describing (hand-braking, foot-braking, and downshifting) won't come into play until you start trying to do more advanced drifts. As you get better at drifting, one of the things you will try to do is make your entries into corners longer and bigger. By that I mean you will initiate your drift sooner, farther away from the corner. One of the techniques commonly used to do this is called the "e-brake entry". VThis technique involves starting your drift well before the corner, and using the e-brake to slide into the corner sideways. As you are doing this, you will be holding the hand-brake to keep the rear wheels sliding, and tapping the foot-brake to help slow the car down for the upcoming corner as well as maintaining the drift angel. You will also need to be downshifting as you are sliding sideways to the corner, as you will more than likely have initiated the drift in a higher gear (say 4th or 5th), but the ideal gear for the corner may be 2nd or 3rd.

Wow...this is getting long winded lol. It's tough to describe an e-brake entry in words You shouldn't really be concerned with that style of drifting just yet, but if you stick with drifting long enough, you will get to a point where you'll want to have that move in your bag of drifting tricks.

Like you, I too used to drive with a layout very similar to the default scheme (x=gas, square=brake, O=hand-brake etc.). After about 2 months of practicing, I was starting to try these longer entries. I was getting the hang of sliding sideways a long distance with the handbrake, but was always overshooting the corner and crashing. After reading some posts on this forum amd watching a few videos, I learned that I needed to be using the foot-brake as well...and quickly realized it was nearly impossible to hold circle, and tap square. That's when I made a new controller layout.

If you want to keep things as close to the default layout as possible (which may be the best option, as it will mos likely cause the least problems), I would suggest moving the hand-brake to either R1 or L1. R1 is the better option in my opinion.

Or you can go for an all out switch like I did, and switch gas and brake to R2 and L2. You then have to come up with some sort of layout for hand-brake, shift up and shift down on the four thumb buttons. I personally use X=hand-brake, square=shift down, circle=shift up, and triangle=reverse.

And as far as I know, you can't save multiple controller layouts.

 

[MSTER232]

When I used to drift with a DS3, I had the following controller setup:

R2 = Accelerate (more precise gas inputs)
L2 = Brake (more precise braking inputs)
O = Handbrake
R stick up = Shift Down (like a sequential transmission)
R stick down = Shift up (Like a sequential transmission)

Everything else is pretty much default.