New team in F1? Nick Fry, BAR : 65% chance!

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henry_wattel

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Two Honda teams in Formula One in 2006?
"The unveiling of an eleventh Grand Prix team for next year could be less than one month away, Nick Fry, the team chief of its expected technical backer BAR Honda, said today at Suzuka.

Honda made it known that they have been asked to supply engines to a mysterious new outfit earlier this week, when they confirmed they have bought a 100 percent shareholding in the BAR team. Fry said talks with the as yet unnamed outfit began more than two months ago.

"It is going to be very difficult to do next year but we will try to do it and see what happens," said Fry. "Honda would not have mentioned this unless it was relatively credible and you don't come out and say these things without a fair bit of activity having happened previously so I am sure the potential new team has done its homework. These are credible people with motor racing experience and the financial backing to do the job. We are not talking about an under-funded team here, and clearly they have convinced Honda, Bernie (Ecclestone) and us that this has got potential."

"I think there is a 65 percent chance, certainly better than evens, that it will happen because if it was not that we would not be saying anything. They have a high degree of capability, proven capability to put together a team."

Source : http://f1.racing-live.com/f1/en/


Are we going to enter a Junior F1 Teams Era?
 
About the junoir F1 era well frankly because it will basically be the same team and I thought people were complaining f1 cost to much and they were cutting cost but yet some teams still manage to have two teams.
 
Well they wont be able to put team order in as such will they so they wont be to a signifcant advantage, especialyl if the journior team is treated as a seperate team in the championship
 
Hello,

well, some years ago the era of the Junior Teams F1 began in F3000. Just go back in 1998, with the Junior Team Mercedes. It was build in order to train future F1 drivers such as Nick Heidfeld. It all finished when Nick Heidfeld eventually won the championship and arrived at Prost GP.

What's happening now?

Hypotesis 1 : We consider BAR, sorry, the brand new Honda Team, creating a 'bis' team. Personally, I don't see the point to do that. Was BAR takeover not expensive enough? What wil be the advantages? I can understand RB doing that because the F1 entrance fee is almost as expensive as buying Minardi, so there exist a reason to do so, but not Honda.
If there were overdominating the F1 such Ferrari did some years ago, why not, but in this case it is obviously a non-sense. Money would be spend in a better way promoting the new Honda Civic in the WTCC (nice to watch, though).

Hypotesis 2 : Honda will share its technical knowledge to create, in partnership with any foreign investor group or IT company (why not imagining a Sony - Playstation sponsored Japanese team), a F1 team helping them to increase Honda's reputation by providing 2 F1 teams....It makes more sense, doens't it?

Any reactions?
 
henry_wattel
Hello,

well, some years ago the era of the Junior Teams F1 began in F3000. Just go back in 1998, with the Junior Team Mercedes. It was build in order to train future F1 drivers such as Nick Heidfeld. It all finished when Nick Heidfeld eventually won the championship and arrived at Prost GP.

What's happening now?

Hypotesis 1 : We consider BAR, sorry, the brand new Honda Team, creating a 'bis' team. Personally, I don't see the point to do that. Was BAR takeover not expensive enough? What wil be the advantages? I can understand RB doing that because the F1 entrance fee is almost as expensive as buying Minardi, so there exist a reason to do so, but not Honda.
If there were overdominating the F1 such Ferrari did some years ago, why not, but in this case it is obviously a non-sense. Money would be spend in a better way promoting the new Honda Civic in the WTCC (nice to watch, though).

Hypotesis 2 : Honda will share its technical knowledge to create, in partnership with any foreign investor group or IT company (why not imagining a Sony - Playstation sponsored Japanese team), a F1 team helping them to increase Honda's reputation by providing 2 F1 teams....It makes more sense, doens't it?

Any reactions?
Click to expand...


Hypotesis 1 = Well Honda are a very rich comapny, im sure they can survive the cost of a second team.

Hypotesis 2 = I agree with this one muuuch more, they will do the same with what the dowe to BAR, give them tech and then buy them outright later on if it goes well.
 
Ok, there are testing restrictions from 2008 onwards … hell, most teams are in an agreement not to test as often now (Ferrari will probably agree to testing restrictions next year).

The point of supplying another team with your engine? You get more miles on it. Every km they test, you get free data on your engine. Ferrari and Toyota are supplying other teams – guess which teams have some of the most powerful and most reliable engines in F1…

In 2008 teams willl be able to share entire cars! So what will teams be doing? Creating teams that have the exact same package as them, and letting them rack up the testing mileage. Testing will be restricted by distance in 2008, so by having a 2nd team you get double the data you normally would! Can you not see the advantages of doing this?

It also gives teams the chance to put younger drivers in their ‘B’ cars and let them get experience in F1 without disturbing the main teams title ambitions.

The bad thing? Teams that cannot afford to do this will be shoved further and further back. With only half the testing data of the top teams they really have no chance to keep up with development.

It is good and bad, but it is very clever.

Blake
 
Well first of all its not a Honda B team (if it even come sto fruition), all that is said is that Honda have been asked to supply engines. Ferrari supply Suaber engines, not like they have any control over them at all, just like in V8supercars, Triple8 racing are supplied with Stone Brothers Racing engines, but they dont have the slightest say in what goes on just becuase they have an engine deal. Any thought of it being anything close to a Honda B team is mere speculation at this point.
 
They still share data. You want your engine to be better, share your data with the people supplying you with an engine.

Blake
 
[FPV]Rusty
exactly but thats nothing new, why would someone see a problem with this
Click to expand...
Because in 2008 it will lead to entire cars being shared for data aquisition. It seperates the front-teams from the also-rans by a bigger amount because teams will be limited to 36,000kms each or whatever the figure is i.e. teams which share an entire car will get 72,000km worth of data.

Blake
 
perhaps the FIA should institute a rule that restricts
teams that share data to a certain amount of testing.

example:

in 2008, honda will have two teams sharing data. in
the meanwhile, williams will only have one team and
no one to share data with.

the FIA sets a maximum distance of 36,000kms (just
to go along with what blake is saying) for teams who
run only one car and dont share data (williams).

for the teams that share data (honda w/ 2 teams), you
divide the testing in half. one honda team gets a max.
of 18,000kms and the other 18,000kms.

they could even allow the teams sharing data to allocate
testing distances however they want. they could have the
freedom to go 60/40, 80/20 or split it 50/50.
 
Yes that is a good idea but i don't think it would go through.

Although Honda will have a 2nd team using their engines, the aero package on that car could differ to that of the works team, therefore sharign results from 2 different handling cars might work as an disadvantage, and so then the teams that will be on the 36k will be at an advantage, which is not fair in this game.
 
At the end of this season BAR will be selling the intellectual property rights of the BAR007 chassis to the ‘other’ Honda team. Therefor they can use this years chassis without it being illegal, while Honda use a new car.

Anyway, the only data I’m talking about sharing for the next few years is engine data. And there is a pattern, the teams that supply other teams with their engines tend to have the more powerful and more reliable engines in F1 (Ferrari and Toyota).

Blake
 
ok i've got two great ideas to solve both the multi car team thing and the points system.

first off lets let the teams run as many cars as they want to. 3 cars per team or mayber even 4. the kicker is only the top two cars from each team get contructor points. the drivers still get driver points, thus making the points race more interesting.

now most people dont like the way points are won. only two points between 1st and 2nd. well, how about this...

1st place gets 14 points.
2nd gets 10.
3rd gets 7.
4th gets 6.
5th gets 5.
6th gets 4.
7th gets 3.
8th gets 2.
9th gets 1
10th gets a half point.

by doing this the driver gets more points for winning and its easier to make and lose leads. the distance between 2nd and 3rd is also one more point for the same reason. by adding 9th and 10th palces to the points it makes the mid field more competitve AND givin the amount of changes the mid field has from race to race livens up the points race. the half point for 10th is for breaking ties. when it comes down to it the little bit could make a difference. with 22 cars on the field next year i think it makes great sense.
 
TBH I think they should go back to the 10, 6, 4, 3, 2, 1 points system. It made winning more important, and only the teams that truly were competetive got points most of the time.

That’s it, you’ve inspired me, I'm making a thread about it.

Blake
 
pSI civic
i like having 7th and 8th being points spots though. they could just make winning get 12 points.
Click to expand...
Why? Have you got a reason other than the fact that ‘you like it’?

Blake
 
it makes the mid field more competitive in the points race. it also makes 9th place work harder for it during the race rather then making 7th. having more cars in the points is better in the long run.
 
Midfield runners will still get points in the top 6 scoring position. What the current system does is make consistancy more important and makes it easier for backmakers to score.

In 2002 Webber stormed to a fantastic 5th place in Melbourne but only got 2 points for it. I see this as a good thing. Points are valuable, they shouldn’t be given away for comming 8th IMO.

In a period of domination the current system makes it appear as though the team/driver is not as dominant, they changed the point system so the championship would reward consistancy.

But is that what F1 is about? Does anyone remember who came 2nd in every race? I sure as hell don’t. But I know who won. F1 is about winning, winning should be rewarded more than comming 2nd. Two points is hardly a big difference, that’s what you get for comming 7th now ffs.

Blake
 
its true the winner should get more then two points. i think that having extra points spots at the end is good though as sauber may get them one race the red bull the next and williams the next after so it changes that up and if we are getting 22 cars next year it will make it a bit harder then it was this year. i think it makes since at least keeping points to 8th and giving 1st say 12 points.
 
But do drivers deserve to get points for finishing 8th? 8th really is nothing special IMO. For a driver to get 6th places, then he deserves a point. Only the best should be competing for points IMO.

I’m not going to continue to argue because it’s really pointless (no pun intended). But I don’t think points should be awarded to the midfield every race.

Blake
 
but it makes it harder for some drivers to get points thus making things in the back even more boring. they shouldnt have to crap a golden egg to get 1 or 2 points. getting an amazing win like kimi did at suzuka does deserve more points though.

another thing is that the tv watchs the cars in the points more then the cars not in the points. if you have less cars in the points the tv focuses on fewer cars. not only does this give someones favorite team less airtime if they arent running in say 2nd or 3rd but this also makes the sponers get less coverage on tv and they dont like that.
 
You think drivers won’t try to pass because it will gain them no points? If anything there tends to be more passing at the back because they won’t lose points if they get it wrong (mind you the cameras tend to miss it, they tend to concentrate on the front of the field).

Racers will race when they have the car to do it.

Blake
 
i cant see it making them race that much harder if at all because there are no points. if i'm sitting 13th and have a small shot at 12th i cant see me working as hard as if i'm laying 9th and have the same shot at 8th.
 

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