GTPNewsWire
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This is the discussion thread for a recent post on GTPlanet:
This article was published by Joe Donaldson (@Joey D) on March 29th, 2018 in the Automotive News category.
New Technology From Nvidia Blurs the Line Between Virtual and Real World Driving
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marvthegamer
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- marvinthepianist
Sounds like hackers will soon be able to steal cars using their VR headset. Of course, they might need to render a Ferrari to steal a Toyota Camry. (NVDIA rendered a LC500 and out came a Ford Fusion)
Their intended use is great but it's hard for me not to be paranoid. I'm sure many cars today can be hacked remotely, but this takes it to a whole other level.
About eSports, I would much prefer it if the lines weren't mixed. Real drivers being away from real cars at a distance doesn't make sense to me. Just put them in the real cars. The amount of fear & respect are not the same as being inside the car and I believe those things are part of the sport.
These are just my two cents though. I say this never driven a race car in my life. Never even driven a sports car lol
Their intended use is great but it's hard for me not to be paranoid. I'm sure many cars today can be hacked remotely, but this takes it to a whole other level.
About eSports, I would much prefer it if the lines weren't mixed. Real drivers being away from real cars at a distance doesn't make sense to me. Just put them in the real cars. The amount of fear & respect are not the same as being inside the car and I believe those things are part of the sport.
These are just my two cents though. I say this never driven a race car in my life. Never even driven a sports car lol
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Once you connect the simulator to the real car, it could lead to the data from the car migrating back to the simulator, which could star a new way of creating game simulating driving cars physics. Instead of the developer having to enter date hoping for the best, the car itself would feed the game depending on the driver input.
Food for thought
Food for thought
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Seems ripe for abuse.
Par for the course coming from Silicon Valley in 2018.
Par for the course coming from Silicon Valley in 2018.
syntex123
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This reminds me of an episode of MacGyver..? A guy drove a car in a sim and it turned out it wasn’t a sim.. if he crashed, he would get damaged and eventually die. Which I think he did. Or at least got very injured. Wasn’t this in an episode of MacGyver..?
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Because we need a way for hackers to kill people by hacking into their cars.
Right. No thanks.
Right. No thanks.
- 24,612
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Why go through all the work of hacking into the car when they could just send a lengthy text message?
Joey D
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The technology is still incredibly new and no doubt security measures will be taken to prevent hackers from getting into the system. While it's certainly possible, this technology probably won't be commonplace for at least 20 years if not more. We are still a very long ways off from Level 5 autonomous cars.
I didn't even think about that, but you're right, that is a fantastic use case for this too.
I didn't even think about that, but you're right, that is a fantastic use case for this too.
Quakebass
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If this technology advances enough it would seem to be possible to start utilizing race cars that go beyond the human body's limits while still keeping the human aspect - like an RC WipeOut, Redbull X, or SRT Tomahawk, but rather than buttons and triggers and joysticks there's all the racing peripherals of the real cars, but no 6-8G turn/brake forces to worry about, as well as pretty much 100% injury-free wrecks.
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- HamiltonMP427
One gtp tech article and all of a sudden...
There is already an RC series in some sense, it's called Roborace, using autonomous cars and uses the same tracks as FE. Just not backed by the FIA, yet that is. Guess who helps provide tech for that, Nvidia.
Where did you get a Ford Fusion came out of an LC500? The article says they rendered a LC500 using a Fusion. Which seems logical considering how much a Fusion cost compared to a LC500...
Yes cars can be hacked. Also hackers have been shown to break into computers in cars even just so people realize.
https://www.wired.com/2015/07/hackers-remotely-kill-jeep-highway/
I don't know how it takes it to a whole different level considering it wasn't explained very detailed in how it would work. Being paranoid over technology gains seems silly considering how it's a ongoing trend with no signs of ceasing.
...no - please - no. Once the FIA realizes drivers could remote control race cars, they'd enforce every racing series to use the RC technology - for driver safety reasons
There is already an RC series in some sense, it's called Roborace, using autonomous cars and uses the same tracks as FE. Just not backed by the FIA, yet that is. Guess who helps provide tech for that, Nvidia.
Where did you get a Ford Fusion came out of an LC500? The article says they rendered a LC500 using a Fusion. Which seems logical considering how much a Fusion cost compared to a LC500...
Yes cars can be hacked. Also hackers have been shown to break into computers in cars even just so people realize.
https://www.wired.com/2015/07/hackers-remotely-kill-jeep-highway/
I don't know how it takes it to a whole different level considering it wasn't explained very detailed in how it would work. Being paranoid over technology gains seems silly considering how it's a ongoing trend with no signs of ceasing.
marvthegamer
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Article states -
- "First, he used the Nvidia Holodeck VR software to render a model of the Lexus LC500 from the Black Panther film. Then a test driver sat down behind the wheel of a sim racing rig and put on a VR headset. Once the test driver started going through the driving motions, a real Fusion out in the parking lot began to respond.
So there it was, a digital car, driven by a real driver, moving a real car several hundred yards away. -"
They didn't render a LC500 using a Ford Fusion. They rendered a LC500 and used it to control a real-life Ford Fusion. Anyway, I was just making fun of them. No idea why they didn't just render a Ford Fusion to control the Ford Fusion. Ford has been steadily working and making progress on autonomous cars, which is my guess to why they used it. They could have used other car manufacturers leading the way in autonomous cars as well. But why render the Lexus? Just seemed funny to me. Maybe it was just promotional? You think Nvidia can't afford an LC500, especially for a showcase?
I remember seeing that video of the Jeep being hacked, which is why I said "I'm sure some cars can be hacked remotely..." I am sure many other cars can be hacked and controlled remotely to various degrees.
I believe it takes it to a whole different level because of the use of VR. I don't think I had heard or seen cars being controlled in such a way before. Cars may be currently hackable but not to the level of precision Nvidia showcased. The person controlling the car had a full view from the driver's seat perspective (all from a comfy gaming chair with steering wheel and pedals) Nvidia said it also plans to access a whole array of data from the car's camera's and sensors. Of course, autonomous cars are still way down the road and so is Nvidia's remote drive technology.
Paranoid might be too much of a word but everyone should be mindful of the way technology usually works. Security flaws are constantly exploited. Am I against the development and use of this technology? Not really. I love advancements in technology and the transportation sector is ripe for exploration. It will serve it's purpose or an even better purpose than we can currently imagine. Would I be afraid of getting my car hacked? No. The possibility will always exist but the probability will, hopefully, always be low.
I hope you read the article you posted from Wired. If not, I would encourage you to read the last four paragraphs. Technology companies and auto manufacturers can't wait until the technology is present and widespread until they start thinking about vulnerabilities. And I'm not saying they aren't, because I don't know if they are or not. Not being careful with technology gains and their possible unintended consequences, just because they are an ongoing trend with no signs of ceasing, seems silly.
Again, all of this technology is still in it's infancy and won't be mainstream until many years from now. That doesn't mean it will just pop out of nowhere in 5,10, 15, or 20 years. This technology is being developed right now.
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- HamiltonMP427
As I said, they rendered an LC500 and used a Ford fusion. You're original posts sounds as if Nvidia tried to render a LC500 and instead were only able to get a Ford Fusion from that attempt, rather than a Ford Fusion was the real life catalyst driven by the rendered LC500. Your quote just in case... "NVDIA rendered a LC500 and out came a Ford Fusion"
Most likely due to costs measures. And perhaps as well due to Ford autonomous cars too, however seems strange considering Toyota has autonomous technology just as good if not better. They probably rendered a Lexus to show something exciting, and also because of the black panther promoting as well.
I'm sure Nvidia could afford a fleet of LC500, but if they're just trying to do a showcase on a future tech advancement and the people saying how much they could spend on said showcase made it only feasible for what was seen. Then that is a reality.
I know you said that, which is why I acknowledged it and extended further by showing said cases of hacking just to refresh that thought, and for other people who read these threads.
How can they not? People have shown how to take control of a vehicle with a cell phone, laptop and so on, using a VR set isn't a massive leap. At least I'm not seeing how it is from this explanation. We don't know how Nvidia is exactly doing it, the rendering isn't difficult for them, but the program to autonomously drive a car, and link it to a remote system specific to the Nvidia setup seems difficult. So let's say in this hypothetical (long off) future that someone wants to "hack" a car, they'd have to do so using a setup specific to this group. Thus knowing which cars use it, seems hit and miss.
I myself doing engineering, I'm well aware of technology and being always aware of where it can go next, I'm currently preparing to learn and work on autonomous aircraft. However, I wouldn't think people should be too paranoid, especially when there are always updates, safety measures and increasing laws to help protect normal people from those who could potentially harm. However, it shouldn't be the first thought to fear what could happen if that was the case then why advance at all?
From experience in what I do, I would say that vulnerabilities and potential issues are at the forefront, but you don't know what could go wrong until you actually build a prototype and test it. Simple engineering method at work. They want it widespread so they can learn from others and themselves. The idea that the people building and advancing technology is not a checked and balanced system to the point people as yourself are paranoid, is far more silly. Trend or not that isn't something that the people building this stuff tend to care about, that is marketing.
Exactly, the idea of Autonomous cars themselves must be solved first. Solving means testing and development, which is a lot of trial and error. So people doing this are thinking of various issues with this.
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