New York mayor proposes congestion charge

[Pebb]

Source: 4car

Michael Bloomberg is planning to copy his London opposite number Ken Livingstone by introducing a congestion charge for drivers entering Manhattan and driving below 86th Street. The plans, intended to cut congestion in the central business district, include exemptions for taxis, and possible discounts for residents.

The New York City charge will be $8 a day, or half the cost of driving into central London at current exchange rates, but New York commuters and other car travellers already pay tolls on selected bridges and tunnels leading into the city. If it does get introduced, this is expected to set a precedent for congestion charging in other US cities.

 

[JCE]

I'd call that harassment in both the UK and US. Charging people for something they HAVE to do is obsurd. Let me charge these politicians 35p and or $0.35 USD per breath of air and see how they like it. And I thought toll roads were stupid, this takes the cake.

 

[exigeracer]

They don't HAVE To drive their car. That's the whole point.

 

[Joey D]

Most people in New York City don't drive anyways, I wouldn't even know how to drive there. Last time I was in NYC we just left the car at the hotel and took the subway everywhere, or if that didn't work you could just take a cab. I think I saw only a handful of normal cars driving around.

 

[harrytuttle]

Funny, I thought taxes are what paid for the roads....

 

[niky]

Not an entirely unexpected move, but the congestion charge should apply to Taxis, too... since 99% of New York traffic is... Taxis... (that's asking for an argument.)

RE: taxes... everyone pays them... sounds just right to make people who use them more pay more... (that's asking for flames...)

 

[Duke]

In the US, a lot of road construction is paid for by fuel taxes, so the people who do use the roads the most are the ones who pay the most for them. In fact, we even dye our diesel fuel a different color for agricultural use, because it is not charged road tax. If a cop pulls over a truck, often he'll dip the tanks. If the sample comes back the wrong color, the driver gets a hefty fine.

 

[Famine]

In the US, a lot of road construction is paid for by fuel taxes, so the people who do use the roads the most are the ones who pay the most for them. In fact, we even dye our diesel fuel a different color for agricultural use, because it is not charged road tax. If a cop pulls over a truck, often he'll dip the tanks. If the sample comes back the wrong color, the driver gets a hefty fine.

Same here - red diesel. Not subject to the same level of fuel tax unless it's used on the road, when you must pay the full duty for it as you would normal diesel.

 

[///M-Spec]

I drive into NYC at least twice a month.

While I don't have a problem with this, I actually wonder if it would reduce congestion. I'd say half the city's traffic is taxis and other commercial vehicles like trucks and buses. The commercial people will most likely not be deterred by this toll and simply consider it 'cost of doing business' by passing it onto their customers. At 8 bucks a day, it is an almost trivial amount compared to fuel, rent, insurance and labor costs.

It will probably deter some commuters, no doubt. Which is okay by me because the NYC area actually has a passable mass transit system.

Residents of NYC don't usually drive to work. Those who do, deserve what they get.

Which leaves the other type of traffic in NYC: occasional visitors like me. This will not deter people like me one bit. I'm already paying nominal tolls for tunnels and bridges. I'm already paying silly money to park. And when I get there, I'm blowing silly money to eat, watch shows, see stuff, etc. $8 bucks is one HALF an over-priced appetizer at an average NYC restaurant. In other words: chump change for most people.

So what this really targets is commuters. And while on one hand it may in the short term reduce traffic, it may actually in the long term do nothing because the number of cars in the NYC area is going to skyrocket in next 10-15 years.

So while it might be $8 bucks in 2008/9. It could be much more in the future.


M

 

[Touring Mars]

It's also almost exactly half what Londoners pay, since the charge here is £8 (if you pay the same day) or £10 the next day.... (it used to be £5)

 

[OZZYGT]

Most people in New York City don't drive anyways

Wrong. Most of the people you see walking on NYC, DON'T live in NYC.

I wouldn't even know how to drive there.

Following the road signs? traffic lights? on the street?

Last time I was in NYC we just left the car at the hotel and took the subway everywhere,

Exactly, you are a tourist. People who do live here, often get a car to get somewhere else quicker (like myself ), and maybe we don't save a considerable amount of time, but it's worth it even if you have to pay a few more bucks for gas.

I think I saw only a handful of normal cars driving around.

That is quite strange. That rarely happens, I've only seen that happen on Sunday mornings like a 6 am or something.

 

[///M-Spec]

People who do live here, often get a car to get somewhere else quicker (like myself ), and maybe we don't save a considerable amount of time, but it's worth it even if you have to pay a few more bucks for gas.

Do you mean you get a car to go somewhere else in THE CITY? Or do you get a car to go someplace OUT of the City like Long Island, Queens or Jersey?


M

 

[OZZYGT]

To wherever I have to go. Except to the deli next to my apartment building.

 

[Joey D]

Wrong. Most of the people you see walking on NYC, DON'T live in NYC.

My aunt and uncle live there, they never drive their car to go anywhere in the city. The only reason they have a car is because my uncle has to go into DC quite often for business and he drives there instead of sitting on a train. They also like to come to Detroit (why I'm not sure) a couple times a year.

Following the road signs? traffic lights? on the street?

No really? I mean with the traffic. And if the road signs didn't completely suck it would be fine to drive around down there.

Exactly, you are a tourist. People who do live here, often get a car to get somewhere else quicker (like myself ), and maybe we don't save a considerable amount of time, but it's worth it even if you have to pay a few more bucks for gas.

Once again my aunt and uncle don't drive because they can't, they find it more efficient to take the subway, bus, or a cab to where they need to go rather then attempt to drive, find a parking spot, pay a huge sum of money for said parking spot and risk having their car bumped into by some idiot cabby. As far as I can see more New Yorkers do not drive because there is no way to.

That is quite strange. That rarely happens, I've only seen that happen on Sunday mornings like a 6 am or something.

I was there for a week (worst week of my life mind you) and I saw maybe 5% of the road's traffic congested by cars. Most of the time you saw one million cabs, a ton of cop cars, and a bunch of utility trucks

 

[OZZYGT]

My aunt and uncle live there, they never drive their car to go anywhere in the city. The only reason they have a car is because my uncle has to go into DC quite often for business and he drives there instead of sitting on a train. They also like to come to Detroit (why I'm not sure) a couple times a year.

That's OK. I didn't say EVERYBODY has a car, but MOST people do.

But you know what? Now that I'm thinking about it, maybe I should say that I'm speaking for the people who live from 57th street and below, I don't know about people from Uptown; Life is cheaper up there, so I'm guessing that they don't want bother buying a car if they could use the mass transportation ways.

And if the road signs didn't completely suck it would be fine to drive around down there.

Hum, how do they exactly suck?

Once again my aunt and uncle don't drive because they can't, they find it more efficient to take the subway, bus, or a cab to where they need to go rather then attempt to drive, find a parking spot, pay a huge sum of money for said parking spot and risk having their car bumped into by some idiot cabby. As far as I can see more New Yorkers do not drive because there is no way to.

Yes, that is the big drawback of having a car here. I actually had to pay $400 dollars more a month in order for my car to be in a safe garage.

I was there for a week (worst week of my life mind you) and I saw maybe 5% of the road's traffic congested by cars. Most of the time you saw one million cabs, a ton of cop cars, and a bunch of utility trucks

If you don't mind, where did you stay while you were here? Are your relatives rich and live in Midtown? 'Cause, where I live, of course you see the cabs and cops driving around, but no more than regular cars do. AND there is always traffic.

 

[Joey D]

That's OK. I didn't say EVERYBODY has a car, but MOST people do.

Must have misread that then.

Hum, how do they exactly suck?

I hate all roads in cities, no one knows how to lay out anything. One way streets, ally ways, signs behind untrimmed trees, stolen signs, painted signs, etc. It's not just NYC, it's every city I've ever been to.

If you don't mind, where did you stay while you were here? Are your relatives rich and live in Midtown? 'Cause, where I live, of course you see the cabs and cops driving around, but no more than regular cars do. AND there is always traffic.

We stayed near Carnegie Hall, I think the place was called the London Tower or something to that effect. I don't really know much about NYC districts. My relatives are rich, well rich to me, I don't know if they are rich for the city. They live by Broadway, my aunt does something at one of the theaters around there, a manager or something. I remember my uncle saying something to the effect that they paid almost $450,000 for there I guess you'd call it a condo, it's small, I would say less then 700 sq.ft. That's the only reason we didn't stay with them.

 

[///M-Spec]

To wherever I have to go. Except to the deli next to my apartment building.

Really? I used to just take the train or walk everywhere. I'd cab it sometimes if it made sense, but it usually doesn't except at night.

So if you needed to get from.. say.. Houston and 6th Ave to.. say Amsterdam and 76th at 5:30 on a Friday night, you'd prefer to drive a car than just hop on the 1, A, B or C Train? And then when you get there, you still have to find a place to park or pay $30 bucks for lot parking.

Don't get me wrong, it's your time and money, but.. driving a car to get around the city just seems crazy to me except at night or maybe on a Sunday.


M

 

[MistaX]

This thread oddly left out the fact that they want $21 for commercial vehicles.

 

[Robin]

Hmm.... the age old congestion charge debate... I think its good as long as the subway, buses etc networks are really good and cheap, I went to London at xmas and I was very impressed with the transport network especially the Tube using the oyster card! It was like £30 for 2 weeks unlimited or something which was great! As for commercial vechiles they really shouldn't have to pay because they have to use it!

I wonder if NY is going to exclude Hybrid's from the charge like London?

Robin

 

[Pupik]

I'm convinced that New Yorkers, unlike every other United States citizen, are completely un-bothered by the word "tax".

I don't get it. They must actually believe their politicians.

 

[niky]

Well, the word "tax" is one of the reasons we don't live in New York anymore...